Okay, leave to me to try to find a way around things.

So, here's is the silly question of the day. So, if I'm on antibiotics anyway (Levaquin), can I try my batter with raw eggs then? Won't that protect me? I wouldn't take antibiotics just so I could try my batter, but if I'm on them anyway...

Thanks for any advice.

Ok heres my 2 cents....

I am in the medical field--the animal one LOL, I know that antibiotics are varied in the way they treat bacteria, some more effective for different types of bacteria...I am pretty sure it wouldn't kill you, but IMHO why chance it!!

I guess if we hear back from you thats our clue you lived!! LOL

OMG Charley that Was too funny. LOL the last line sounds like something I would Say to one of my friends.

Gdixongcakes, if you want to know more about levofloxacin and other fluoroquinolones it's best that you ask your medical provider.

But yes if you decide to try the experiment we all wanna know the results LOL

Princess

P.S. There is a reason there's more than one antibiotic on the market.

I guess I deserve the ribbing. It made some kind of logical sense to me and that's why I tried to address the question to more knowledgeable people that share my love for baking. That's what I thought this site was for. Unfortunately, my medical provider is not open on Saturday and I thought my friends here were.

Sorry for the stupidity. Glad I could provide some entertainment, though. I guess you guys didn't think it was so logical.

I am so sorry if I offended you. I did try to answer you the best i could...
I truly did not mean any harm by what I said.. I guess cake princess was on the mark, maybe I should save my sarcastic wit for my friends.
So sorry again, I truly meant to answer the question....

I know YOU did, Charleydog and I appreciate it.

Gdixoncakes we were not ribbing you it was just an attempt to lighten up the seriousness of the question. Sorry if you felt I Was ribbing you.

OK seriously speaking. Different antibiotics are used to treat different types of bacterial infections. Antibiotics cannot be used to treat viral infections.

Having said that it would not be wise to experiment to see if Levofloxacin will treat salmonella. Salmonella does not infect each And every egg out there. But there is no need to find out if your eggs are infected.

Also, antibiotics should be taken with care and not be abused. Same with other medication. Should also be noted that there are some drug resistant bacteria out there that do not respond well to certain antibiotics and it's Very difficult to treat them.


Princess.



P.S. Sorry I will try To be more serious in the future

CakePrincess,

I appreciate your second reply. However, in my opinion, there is a huge difference between tasteless sarcasm and a good sense of humor. Throwing around what is obviously high level medical terms, such as "Levofloxacin" and "fluoroquinolones", when I am clearly a layman asking for help, I think, is unfair and is clearly not making "light of the serious question." Obviously, you know something more than your avg. layman about medicine. I made it clear, however, I was a layman.

Also, I don't think I ever asserted that antibiotics would treat a viral infection. So, that was never a issue. I also think I made it quite clear I was not "experimenting" with these drugs and in fact, I think I tried to communicate how I do respect the seriousness of pharmaceuticals. I do not "abuse" any kind of chemical and I don't appreciate the allusion that I do.

Lastly, I did not mention I wanted to "test" my eggs. My ingredients are always the best and freshest quality. I spend extra $ in order to ensure that. But, if you are at all informed with mainstream media, you know that raw eggs are an issue lately.

Okay, you guys, I admit it. I'm being overly sensitive. I apologize for that.

I just want to try my batter That's all I want. I want to taste it without thinking there are going to be bathroom consequences in a few days.

Sorry again. Thanks. Just ignore me.

gdixoncakes after reading everything you and the others wrote I realized how right you are. How many times have we made things while on antibiotics and suffered the consequences later. I personally never would have thought to ask the question you did. Thank You..I really appreciate it.

Thanks, Sophie-Em. You're awesome!

gdixoncakes, I would think your decision to try your batter depends on #1. Why you are taking the antibiotics and #2, how long you have been on them.
The only thing you have to worry about when testing your batter is the possibility of ecoli, but if you have not heard of or do not know of any ecoli outbreaks in your area, one little taste is not going to hurt you. BUT, if you are having tummy problems, whether ecoli or the flu of some sort, take precaution and wait until the cake is baked and don't risk it. After all, what is cake? A form of bread. My doctor always told me to eat some bread or toast when my tummy is upset. So use your best judgement and do what you feel comfortable doing.

(BTW.... I was a nurse in my WAAAAAAY former occupation)

Debbi

Thank you very much, Debsuewoo. I appreciate the info. So, what is the difference between Salmonella and Ecoli?

Thanks again.

Hi there,
Not a medical professional at all, but I noticed nobody answered your last question. I can see where the two bacterias are similar, they come from the same family even. The best information I could find by doing a search, was at the following internet location. It might help.
www.health-news-and-information.com/4cfvhs/libv/p29.shtml
Hugs Squirrelly

I might be in the minority here, but I have to say I am 30 years old and I have been eating cookie dough and cake batter all of my life...AND easy over eggs as well...and I have yet to get any worse than a tummyache from overeating cookie dough!

If you buy and use quality, fresh ingredients, I truly vote that you relax and lick the beater.

Thank you SpuirrellyCakes and Kitagrl. I appreciate the info.

Cakepro,

I think that's a great idea to try the in-shell pasterized eggs. I've just had a hard time finding them. Thanks!

[quote="gdixoncakes"]
1. Because the high levels of sugar "acts" as a "preservative"[quote]

sigh....like I stated...it "ACTS" like a "PRESERVATIVE"..not as a bacteria killer!

if the ingredients are good..the sugar can preserve their "good" state a little longer...

That's it in a nutshell..no more no less.

If they are contaminated..well guess what? sugar is a great "growing" medium used to feed several strains of bad, yucky things in their little incubating petrie dishes!


Even though I was a University Science Major a lifetime ago...I am NOT a doctor...nor do I pretend to be one.

Umm, nothing, no manner of sugar, or anything else can protect you from salmonella poisoning except insuring that the eggs are cooked to a temperature of 160F or that you are using pasteurized eggs. Sugar is a preservative, but it is not an ingredient that can kill off already living salmonella spores. Only heat can do that.
I am editing this post to add, this has nothing to do at all, with how fresh the eggs are. It is strictly that there was an exposure to the salmonella bacteria, which can happen at any time. End of edit.
The risks of contact with salmonella, are minimal, less than 1%. People have been using raw eggs for many years with no harm coming to them. However, if you have a compromised immune system, are elderly or very young, then this exposure can indeed be dangerous.
Not all people that are exposed to salmonella will become ill, the numbers are very small indeed. But there is always the chance and the illness can be deadly in some cases. Sometimes less than 1 person in a group of 100 people that have all been exposed, will actually become ill.
The handling of eggs in commercial establishments and schools, must vary from place to place. But here, where I live, a licensed bakery and the local culinary schools, are strictly regulated by a 20 minute time line, the eggs can only be left at room temperature for 20 minutes or they must be disposed of. This of course, is if they are not cooked to 160F and includes and recipes that use fresh, uncooked eggs that are not pasteurized. Fillings that will not meet these requirements, are regulated by the food safety act and cannot be sold unless they are made with pasteurized eggs. Eggs must be washed. Any egg with a crack to the shell is disposed of.
Existing salmonella spores, grow when exposed to room temperatures, this is why eggs are refrigerated in commercial establishments.
Do I use raw eggs, yes I have used them for many years, but not for anything that anyone outside of my family will be eating. I wouldn't want to take the chance.
My suggestion, regarding the use of raw eggs, would be to go and look on any government sponsored site that has to do with disease control and the risks associated with salmonella poisoning. I have discovered that the baking sites and many cookbooks do not have the correct information on this subject. I can remember annoying people when stating that in a meringue buttercream, simply pouring hot syrup into your bowl does not bring your eggs to the safe temperature of 160F, because much of the heat dissipates in the bowl. I got jumped on for that one, but recently this has been proven to be correct.
Hugs Squirrelly Cakes

I completely agree, I would never submit anyone outside my family to any risks with raw eggs, and even my own children I am very careful, they are not allowed to eat much more than a little taste of cookie dough or a little batter from a well knocked off beater....

I just don't think its enough to worry about as far as if you are allowed to taste your own cooking.

Well Kitagirl, it is interesting, because I was reading up on these and apparently there is no such thing as a little bit not being harmful. It is even worse with some strains of E-coli bacteria. I guess that is part of the problem, there are many strains of both bacterias, some more harmful than others. I think we tend to think of them like ingesting a little bit of poison, but it doesn't work that way with these bacterias. Any amount can be harmful, depending on the immune system of the person ingesting it.
I suspect that in the last several years, we have made our environments so bacteria free, that even minute amounts affect people more severely than they used to. With the way folks are presribed so many antibiotics too, we have caused a good deal of the problem to exist with many things.
Apparently, people that have a fair amount of yogurt in their daily diet, have a lot more natural protection in their intestines due to the good bacteria doing a tremendous job of fighting off the bad bacterias.
But I think many of us have grown up eating raw cookie dough and cake batter and icings made with raw eggs. Many people eat "Steak Tartar" which is really raw meat and they have been fine. The risk is less than 1% of having any harmful consequences. But I guess that 1% of people who have become violently ill, had permanent health repercussions or have died, wouldn't quite see it the same way.
Anyway, it is always good to have the information at hand so that we can make informed decisions.
Hugs Squirrelly

I thought the question was a joke. I did not expect anyone to ask a serious medical question on this board. Here's a helpful link about our friend the egg.


http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Egg_&_Egg_Product_Safety/index.asp

Like Kitagrl I have been eating cake batter and cookie dough since I was old enough to lick the bowl and beaters. Same with my daughter. Same with my grandchildren. I read about salmonella and think that it's a miracle that we aren't all dead by now. Hasn't scared us enough to quit. I'd rather eat raw chocolate chip cookie dough than any other food I could think of. I can remember coming home from school in the 60;s and mixing up a cake mix and drinking the batter. Would then hide the empty box so my mom wouldn't discover what I was doing. How's that for a confession that I have never told anyone before!!!!?????!!!! I'm 56 years old and hope to live another 56 years eating raw batter and cookie dough.

Well, I did ask a serious medical question and it has caused quite the stir. What I think is cool about the whole thing is that it clearly is a provacative subject. There have been several forums about it in the past, and I think as bakers and cooks (and consumers), it frustrates us that this "threat" of contamination is out there. As humans, we are problem solvers, and we are trying to figure out a way to ellude it, like any disease.

I really appreciate everyone's helpful information and insight. I think this site is so awesome. Everybody comes at it from different perspectives and that's what makes it cool. Thanks everybody, but I think the bottom line is (until science comes up with something better) that the only way to be 100% sure is to use pasturized eggs, or cook them to 160 degrees. I think my antibiotic "loophole" might have been a pipedream.

Thanks again everyone.

On a side note, I depend way too much on spell check. So, I meant elude instead of "ellude" and provocative instead of "provacative." Sorry I can't spell.

Oh heavens GDixoncakes, I cannot even use the spell check that came with this computer, because the computer only came with the American version, which means that because I use the Canadian spelling which is based on British spelling, everything comes up as an error. Since my two daughters left and took every last dictionary I own, I am at a loss. Hhmn, maybe I will ask for one for Christmas, but I would say that most of us make the odd spelling or typo or grammar mistake and I don't think Jackie is grading us, because I haven't been flunked yet, haha!
You know, I debated even posting on this one, but I couldn't help it. I don't like to see people at risk because they don't have access to the facts. I did not comment to argue with anyone or create any kind of scene here - just in case anyone has that impression. I am saying and have tried to say that there is a small risk involved with eating raw eggs that have not been pasteurized or cooked to the temperature of 160F. I am 51 years old, so you can bet your sweet biscuits, I have eaten my share and more of raw cookie dough and such and am still here, alive and miserable as ever. But that doesn't mean that it is 100% safe to do so. And it doesn't mean that I do not know of cases where this has been a deadly choice, because I do. People that suffer from rheumatoid arthritis, asthma, AIDS, MS and many other diseases have compromised immune systems. Small children and the elderly also have not got as strong an immune system. When we have a virus or infection, we are more susceptible too. Many people are exposed to strains of salmonella and E-coli and never know it. Others die from it or develope types of arthritis, strokes, kidney failure, all sorts of side effects as a result.
But I truly believe that we owe it to ourselves to make informed decisions, that is all I am saying. There are facts about these bacterias, familiarize yourself with the facts, not the stories, not the opinions, that is always the best way to go.
Geesh, I certainly hope I am not in hot water again over this post. But if I am, check the temperature and if it is 160F and you throw me to the wolves, they have no risk of salmonella poisoning if you throw me to them, haha!
Running for cover,
Squirrelly

Ahhhhhhhhhh Squirrelly, you made my day!!!
I really do not think any of us intentionally start drama on here. I, just like you, seem to find it!!! ( must be my shadow)

After all this debate it is easy to see we all have unique opions, and thats why this place is so great. I personally think you are hilarious!! Although, i think my sarcastic wit may be similar and some people just don't get it.

I too eat dough all the time, I just wouldn't actually tell someone else to. In my profession we choose our words carefully, (which, believe it or not I tried to do) just because I do something does not mean I can legally advise a client to do it....

Great research as well all of you!!



As for the spell check, I was thinking it should be an add on to this forum!!

Ok Pastry Diva, this is directed to you. Ok, so I just went back through this thread and noted Pastry Diva that you edited your post, which now is not at all what I was posting to. Because your original post "implied' that the sugar acted as a preservative, therefore leaving no worries, that was how it was worded and how I interpreted it. You also stated that chef at your school said it was perfectly safe and went on to say that you left out icings made with uncooked eggs at room temperature for many hours etc. etc.
I am beginning to feel like I need to cut and copy every last post I respond to in case someone goes back in to edit or delete or change what they have written to put the whole thread in a different light.
One of the reasons indeed why I absolutely do not agree with the editing function and why, when I have edited my posts, I always say what I edited underneath, is because of this kind of application of the editing function . But ok, so people can now get the impression that I was picking on you, setting you up, whatever.
I will not play this game, I thought we were friends, but I do believe you are making a conscious effort to set me up. I do not play games on sites, either behind the scenes or up front. I do not and will not participate in this kind of behaviour. I don't think I am wrong this time, you are indeed trying to set me up.
I don't know why you are persisting in this kind of behaviour, but I won't play if you won't play nice.
The information you gave was erroneous. If the subject was not to do with safe food practices, I would have completely let it go. But because of the subject matter, I responded because I worry about the health of people on this site. All you had to do was say you were wrong or the information you had was incorrect. I never claimed to be a doctor either, but I do know a fair bit about safe food practices and am reading and learning all the time.
I made a decision to never post again on this site, because of the last few fiascos. But because this post concerned safe food practices and health concerns, I changed my mind.
I will not tolerate anyone setting me up or trying to make trouble for me and just sit here and let them away with it. I never claimed to be an expert on anything, not ever.
I am not nor have I ever said that I knew more than anyone else on this site. I will not compete with anyone either, that is not me.
I cannot make everyone like me, as much as I would like to be able to. I live by my own morals and ethics and they are never compromised. That is who I am. I don't have a huge ego, I try to be humble, but boy when someone goes at me and tries to deliberately destroy my little reputation, look out. I don't like it. You can fool me once, maybe even twice, but this one was deliberate. I used to love it here, but you have truly hurt my feelings and made this a very unpleasant place for me to be.
I try my best to encourage people, give them recipes, pointers, be kind and friendly. That has been and is my only motivation for ever posting or Pm'ing people. I genuinely love the people here.
So go ahead moderators, Jackie, Pastry Diva whomever. Delete this post, lock the thread, edit it, ban me from the site, make nasty comments to further hurt me if that serves your purposes. All I ever tried to do here was be nice. But most certainly if you folks do not want me here, all you had to do was say so, I have manners, I would have left. I cannot believe that with the state of this world we live in, with all of the hate and evil and disasters, that people have to come on a site like this and hurt someone as I have been hurt.

Squirrelly Cakes