All Googled Out And Still Can't Fix Bake Issues

Baking By SH4RON Updated 1 Jun 2017 , 6:43pm by MamaGeese

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SH4RON Posted 28 May 2017 , 10:30pm
post #1 of 20

Sorry this is long, but I’m turning to you guys because I’m now out of ideas. confused

I originally started baking using a hand mixer and a mini electric fan oven with perfect results. However, as you could only fit in a 6 (not 12) cupcake tray, or a 7-8” cake at a push, reluctantly I switched over to my conventional gas oven. Now being able to do bigger batches, I also invested in a Kenwood Chef Mixer. And there my problems began. weary

Here is the proportion I use and adjust depending on size: 250g sugar/butter/flour (weighed); 4 eggs; 3 tbsp milk with 1tsp vanilla extract; 9” aluminium tin (3” deep, silver in colour); baking strips around the outside edge; greaseproof paper on bottom and around inside edge but also grease tin with Wilton cake release (butter was encouraging darker brown around edge). I always bake in the middle of the oven and use two oven thermometers to monitor temperature throughout. My ingredients are at room temperature (except the milk). I have used both the creaming beater and the K beater. I cream the butter and sugar for 5 mins. I slowly add eggs a bit at a time which I whip beforehand due to preferring not to use baking powder if I can. I then add sifted flour and use K beater on minimum speed until it has just coming together, finishing off folding what’s left of flour by hand.

1st issue:

  •           If I put this in the oven immediately, the middle fails to rise.
  •           If I wait 15+ mins (contrary to what I believe you’re supposed to do), you can see the mix has expanded slightly in the mixing bowl, the consistency changes, and the cake rises beautifully, but there are large air bubbles on the top only (not throughout the cake). I get away with this as I always trim top off anyway, but obviously it’s an issue if making cupcakes. I’ve tried tapping tin, but no bubbles appear until in the oven.

2nd issue:

-          No matter what I do, my cake is always too dark on top (bottom and sides can be hit and miss), which is an issue for cupcakes. Again the opposite of what you would expect in a gas oven which is supposed to have more moisture in the air. My tests using the oven thermometers revealed that my oven appears to be very hot and I therefore go by my oven thermometers rather than the gas mark.

  1.          If I bake at 150C (which is low, but I’m trying to stop it going dark), the outside is still dark before middle is done. Denser cakes like madeira are drier towards the outside before the middle is baked, if at all on larger cakes.
  2.           If I bake at 165-175C, the bake is better, but I have to watch it in the oven in the final stages as it can quickly go really dark on top and drier towards outside.

I have tested my 4 year old oven and found no hot spots, except the usual if you go near the back almost above the burner, but even that only shows slightly on a larger cake and longer bake. However, I want to be able to produce nice golden brown cakes. I would be embarrassed if people saw their delicious cake when it first comes out the oven. The bake is never dry inside except in the cases mentioned above. On one occasion, the dark dry top could literally be peeled off the top, without a knife, revealing the lovely moist sponge underneath. It was like two different cakes. I have tried so many things to rectify both issues that I’m filling up my freezers (2 of them) with more cake than food as it is mostly edible. I therefore am turning to you guys for ideas as I’m clean out and am grateful for any suggestions or experiences. Thanks.

19 replies
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MamaGeese Posted 28 May 2017 , 11:57pm
post #2 of 20

You may need to use baking powder ( not sure of your exact recipe), also sounds like your pan is too deep...have you tried baking in a 2" deep pan? When you are creaming  butter and sugar, constantly check the temperature, if the mixture goes past about 71 degrees, the butter has gotten too warm and you lose all the lift you just tried to so hard to create and you will end up with a greasy flat cake. I would suggest not whipping the eggs before adding to batter, that can affect your final result, add one at a time only mixing till yellow disappears. If mixture gets too warm, I put the bowl, beater in freezer for 5 minutes...also have you tried using a tall flower nail in center of your pan? That will help the middle cook a little faster. Also check your mixing speed...if you cream too fast and too hard you may cause the lift of the mixture to deflate. if you post your recipe in detail, it may be easier to trouble shoot.....do NOT give up, sometimes a problem can be something really simple

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bubs1stbirthday Posted 29 May 2017 , 5:16am
post #3 of 20

To prevent browning when I bake a deep cake I wrap the edges in wet newspaper and place the tin on wet newspaper, the top if needed I will cover with foil for the last part of baking.


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SH4RON Posted 29 May 2017 , 6:10am
post #4 of 20

Thank you both for such quick replies.

Mama Geese, I think a 2" pan might be too shallow as when I do get the cakes baked, the rise is great and the cake sides actually rise to this as my cakes are just a fraction under 2" when trimmed. It's just that I get bubbles on top with a dark finish or a sunken middle. However, I have never come across anything that mentions the butter temp before and I have a food thermometer so will check this. This might be why years ago when mixing by hand and a wooden spoon, I found better results with butter that hadn't been softened. It was perhaps going above this temp when I used softened butter and hugged the bowl while mixing. And I might be mixing the eggs too long from what you're saying because it's definitely longer than what you state. Remember reading somewhere (I've googled a lot!) that you could mix wet ingredients as long as you like but not once dry was added. Experience may beg to differ as so much of what I do turns what you "should do" on its head. Regarding the flower nail, I did try this, but again contrary to what "should" happen, it was undercooked around it. flushed It seemed to lift mix away from base of tin and prevent it baking as well. Strange. Recipe was someone I follow on YouTube. When following her recipes with my hand mixer and mini oven the results tasted and looked amazing. So I know they are good. It was when switching over to stand mixer and big boy oven I got problems. But don't worry, I won't give up. I love the finished product too much and know it's just a matter of tweaking to suit equipment as I've had previous success. Even my failures are edible. The slightly sunken in the middle cakes taste amazing when you slice the top off as it's only sunken so far in and is cooked enough and not dry or gooey. My work colleagues are putting on weight with the amount of attempts I'm bringing in. laughing I made my first wedding cake for my cousin last week. I was really pleased with final product and so was my mother who will tell me straight if a cake is not up to her expected standard.

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SH4RON Posted 29 May 2017 , 6:14am
post #5 of 20

think it chopped off end of reply, so...   

A few things to try and monitor there Mama Geese, so thank you for that.

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SH4RON Posted 29 May 2017 , 6:18am
post #6 of 20

bubs1stbirthday, I use the Wilton baking strips around edge instead of newspaper and it definitely gives you a more level cake - except for the dip in the middle when I don't wait before putting in oven. I have considered the foil, and will try it, just still have problems with dark cupcakes, but perhaps if mix is better, may not need in oven as long. We shall see.

Thank you both. A few things for my next experiment. relaxed

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MamaGeese Posted 30 May 2017 , 2:09pm
post #7 of 20

Just a side note: I have a couple cake recipes that are finicky....if I remove from oven as soon as they're done, they will sink every time, but they are so delicious I won't give it up....so what I do is when they're done, I leave them in oven, turn oven off, open door all the way and let them sit there for about 5 minutes before I touch them....I've found the drastic temperature drop from oven to room temp causes this...then if they look "settled" (about 5 minutes) I moves the pans to a rack to cool...out of all drafts. I do this for my pound cakes too and seems to help a lot ....they keep their lift and size better.

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SH4RON Posted 30 May 2017 , 9:44pm
post #8 of 20

Now that is why I came to this forum. The quirks that you are talking about MamaGeese, because not everything goes as per text book. Well...

I think you hit on something with the butter temperature. Because my kitchen is so small, I discovered that the heat from my oven was heating my butter up extremely quickly, up to well above the temperature you mentioned, even when taken straight from the fridge. So I did what you mentioned and popped bowl in fridge (didn't fit in my freezer).

I added the eggs unmixed and only mixed until yellow disappeared.

I resisted adding baking powder... at this stage.

I also in an attempt to prevent it being too dark put a tray of water on the shelf below.

Well, it's not perfect but it's better. (picture quality isn't the greatest)

All Googled Out And Still Can't Fix Bake Issues

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MamaGeese Posted 31 May 2017 , 12:34pm
post #9 of 20

Honey I cannot tell you how many pound cakes I threw in the trash because from all I read they would say, cream butter and sugar for up to 10 minutes.....I was DETERMINED to figure it out....my cakes were heavy, greasy.....I have discovered (after reading many baking books) that some of the top bakers have their butter colder when they start.. When I start creaming, I have my butter about 65 degrees....gradually add the sugar and never beat it higher than medium..(5 on kitchen aid)check the temp after a minute or so. (Am NEVER without my digital thermometer close by) .. As  soon as you see it getting close to 70 -71 cool it down. You want your total creaming time to be about 5 minutes. Another trick I've done to cool down my bowl is wrap some ice cubes in a kitchen towel and tie it around the outside of bowl , or set the mixing bowl into a larger bowl with some ice in it for a few minutes. Also if you are creaming a butter/ shortening combo then keep your shortening in fridge too....you can have your butter really cool, but as soon as you add room temp shortening its going to warm that butter up way too fast. You also may want to add a little baking powder. I don't like to use it either but a little really helps Without affecting your texture too much.  I am personally not a fan of putting a pan of water in oven while baking. Your cake picture looks really good. I'm sorry if I gave way too many details but just try to help people not make the mistakes I did. 

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SH4RON Posted 31 May 2017 , 5:15pm
post #10 of 20

Not just me then that has had more cake in the house than food. smile I seriously think the butter temp was the biggest negative factor. I used almost straight from fridge, checked after a minute and it was 73 and rising! I'm in Scotland! Heat and humidity is not something we usually have to factor in. stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes I was probably 5 mins in total creaming but had to chill twice. Like the tip about ice cubes in a kitchen towel. +1 I am going to try the baking powder and no water as getting a better rise quickly meant I definitely didn't need it in oven as long, so wasn't as dark in the end, which is the reason I used it in first place. You in no way went in to too much detail. That's exactly what I was looking for. I think I'm almost there, just a little tweaking. Thank you so much! You're a star2

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MamaGeese Posted 31 May 2017 , 6:46pm
post #11 of 20

Yay!! Post pix when you reach perfection! I only leave my butter out about 10 minutes before creaming...the friction from beaters will warm it up fast enough. 

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SandraSmiley Posted 1 Jun 2017 , 3:31am
post #12 of 20

@SH4RON ‍ your cake looks good and nice and smooth on top.  @MamaGeese ‍, I love your post because I never considered the butter temp as a factor.  I've always let my butter and eggs set on the counter until they come to room temperature and I, too, have had problems with the center of the the cake falling.  By golly, 10 minutes max out of the refrigerator next time!  Thanks!

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MamaGeese Posted 1 Jun 2017 , 1:41pm
post #13 of 20

Can  ya'll (from GA) advise how to attach a picture from computer to post on here ....everytime I try it's huge...I tried reducing it, but still huge...wanted to share another little trick...

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SH4RON Posted 1 Jun 2017 , 1:49pm
post #14 of 20

Ooh, interesting. TBH the pic is ok size on my phone but huge on laptop and that was after I shrunk it in photoshop. Possibly not the best person to ask. smile

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MamaGeese Posted 1 Jun 2017 , 1:59pm
post #15 of 20

this is what I do sometimes....I cut a hole in bottom of foil bowl to line up with base of mixer, just slip bowl base into mixer base through hole and stack these little ice sheets around bowl....just don't let it get too cold....I start creaming with butter at 65 and when finished (about 5 minutes) you want it about 70 degrees before adding eggs, just keep checking with your digital thermometer!! All Googled Out And Still Can't Fix Bake Issues

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SH4RON Posted 1 Jun 2017 , 2:15pm
post #16 of 20

That's ingenious. sunglasses I'm going to try something like that. Mine will probably involve bags of frozen veg - peas, diced sweet potato etc. laughing

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MamaGeese Posted 1 Jun 2017 , 2:57pm
post #17 of 20

I do have a redneck side.....hey we do what we gotta do.....oh I have used bags of small frozen peas.....they're the most flexible when frozen.

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SandraSmiley Posted 1 Jun 2017 , 3:00pm
post #18 of 20

@MamaGeese ‍ , I think this is the only size you can attach a picture in the forum.  All of them that I've seen are the same.  I like 'em big, because I can see them!  BTW, I understood you perfectly - from TN, lol!

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SandraSmiley Posted 1 Jun 2017 , 3:02pm
post #19 of 20

Brilliant invention, by the way, MamaGeese!

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MamaGeese Posted 1 Jun 2017 , 6:43pm
post #20 of 20

Haha, when you're trying to save a dime you can come up with all kinds of stuff! Those ice jackets made for kitchen aid got bad reviews and very expensive.....thanks for pic info....I'm new here , but I just reduced pic size as much as possible so quality isn't great, but it doesn't matter for this....thanks

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