Red Velvet

Decorating By suzied Updated 27 Mar 2016 , 2:57am by suzied

suzied Posted 25 Mar 2016 , 6:38am
post #1 of 25

I have to make a 3 tier red velvet cake, with cream cheese frosting for a wedding. I am scared thinking that the cream cheese filling will spoil. How do u handle this type of cake, with decorating, keeping it out on display at the reception etc. Do you sandwich it with CCfrosting and coat it too with Cream cheese frosting and then cover with fondant? Any  advise would be greatly appreciated. I have looked up old cc forums but didnt get all the answers..TIA

24 replies
kristykgs Posted 25 Mar 2016 , 12:44pm
post #2 of 25

There are going to be many opinions on this, but from a food safety instructor, you can't if you use real cream cheese. After 4 hours, it must be thrown out if not kept chilled. I know there will be several that say "I do this all the time and no one has gotten sick", but I am giving you the FDA regulations and what food service industries have to abide by. You make the choice.

suzied Posted 25 Mar 2016 , 12:50pm
post #3 of 25

Thanks Kristykgs. I hope someone will come up with a solution. I am making a practice one tomorrow.  Shall test it on myself

ypierce82 Posted 25 Mar 2016 , 2:05pm
post #4 of 25

You can buy cream cheese emulsions that taste like cream cheese without actually using cream cheese.

kristykgs Posted 25 Mar 2016 , 2:17pm
post #5 of 25

I buy and use a lot of emulsions, but for some reason, i just don't like the cream cheese one

ypierce82 Posted 25 Mar 2016 , 4:22pm
post #6 of 25

Well for me, it isn't what I like it is what my clients like, and none of them have complained, and it is the only alternative I can think of.

-K8memphis Posted 25 Mar 2016 , 4:54pm
post #7 of 25

there are shelf stable cream cheese icing recipes -- i think there's one on cake boss the software's website

kristykgs Posted 25 Mar 2016 , 5:11pm
post #8 of 25

ypiece - I totally understand that; however, I just have never used it for customers to taste it..LOL.

ypierce82 Posted 25 Mar 2016 , 5:26pm
post #9 of 25

Well then there's that lol

-K8memphis Posted 25 Mar 2016 , 5:29pm
post #10 of 25

ok so i finally went & looked and the one i found on cake boss is not shelf stable -- but there is one that was certified by one of the health departments in texas  --

now what i do is very carefully time everything and i deliver at the last possible moment -- so there's that too

-K8memphis Posted 25 Mar 2016 , 5:32pm
post #11 of 25
kramersl Posted 25 Mar 2016 , 5:34pm
post #12 of 25

I don't use cream cheese icings on my wedding cakes if they have to be out longer than 4 hours because it is against food safety regulations. When a customer requests cream cheese frosting I let them know this and I have them try a buttercream with vinegar added to it. It sounds strange but the vinegar in the buttercream adds the same tang you get with a cream cheese frosting. I use about 1 tsp Apple Cider Vinegar per 1 cup of butter. 

njhandygirl Posted 25 Mar 2016 , 6:35pm
post #13 of 25

That's a great idea! I am going to try this. I've also found that cream cheese doesn't "crust" as nicely, so, I don't like it under the fondant. I can't wait to try this.

-K8memphis Posted 25 Mar 2016 , 7:16pm
post #14 of 25

i use white balsamic vinegar it is smother than apple cider -- and it is magic 


kramersl Posted 25 Mar 2016 , 10:11pm
post #15 of 25

Never thought to use white balsamic. That's a good idea!

-K8memphis Posted 25 Mar 2016 , 10:26pm
post #16 of 25

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kristykgs Posted 25 Mar 2016 , 11:29pm
post #17 of 25

I am so going to have to try the vinegar in regular buttercream. I am a home baker and according to our cottage laws, I can't serve anything that has to be refrigerated. For a few friends, i will do cream cheese icing. I have some sleeve cream cheese and the cream cheese emulsion..just can't get past it. I do use the sleeve to mix with jams and jellies for fillings and it's really good.


suzied Posted 26 Mar 2016 , 12:08pm
post #18 of 25

Thanks everyone for all your advice. I appreciate it very much.  I tried the buttercream with apple cider vinegar. it tasted gooood. will try the white balsamic too (couldnt find it in the supermarket). Shall recommend it to the bride and see what she has to say. I made Ednas crusting cream cheese buttercream icing (without the shortening) there was a slight difference in taste compared to the one with apple cider vinegar (slightly tangy). Do you use the same  icing for filling and crumb coating too with red velvet cake?

-K8memphis Posted 26 Mar 2016 , 12:53pm
post #19 of 25

white balsamic minutiae --

there's a white balsamic reduction you can get too or you could reduce it yourself and avoid the extra sugar -- 

white balsamic can be hard to find but it will pop back on the shelf when you're diligent to look every time -- usually in small bottles -- the reduction is in a bit taller thinner bottle -- either will work --

fwiw was perusing the sale shelf at my local grocery store and found a bottle of cherry infused white balsamic reduction -- don't know what I'll come up with with that --

usually in small bottles once in a while in a good sized bottle -- Wal Mart carries it but it does sell out so keep looking for it by the other balsamic vinegar -- i think white balsamic lovers stock up when they can... omg what i have done hahaha

suzied Posted 26 Mar 2016 , 12:59pm
post #20 of 25

K8memphis:  I am just reading about  SMBC with cream cheese.  Have you tried it? Not very clear, whether you can leave it out on the bench for a couple of days....your thoughts pls?

Will keep looking for the white balsamic. Im in melbourne.

-K8memphis Posted 26 Mar 2016 , 1:21pm
post #21 of 25

oh in Melbourne -- dang it but here it is on amazon if that's a maybe for you down under

http://www.amazon.com/Colavita-White-Balsamic-Vinegar-Ounce/dp/B0042ZB2RYRY

anything with cream cheese has to be kept within the four hour window -- i time myself and my product very carefully -- i deliver minutes before the reception starts and everyone knows the cake will be late on purpose -- the bride is primed to serve cake asap -- i tell her she has a 2 hour window to get leftovers back in the fridge or in the trash -- but it's closer to three hours --i can get all my stuff done in an hour easy peasy -- shopping, driving home, mixing, icing, delivering --

climate control is key of course -- you can eliminate three of those steps just with packaging -- using portable chillers -- for example be buying two big bags of frozen veggies to surround the cc that's all placed inside the insulated packaging when you take it off the shelf at the store...or use freezer packs etc.

white balsamic eliminates all the drama but if it's a premium price and challenge to acquire -- charge like it was cream cheese with all the headaches anyhow

suzied Posted 26 Mar 2016 , 1:34pm
post #22 of 25

Thank you soooo much K8. this is just the info i needed.  4 hrs is not bad. i thought u can keep it only for 2hrs. i made apractice cake today. i have placed it in the fridge. shall take it out tomorrow night, to serve. im gonna leave one piece out on the bench over night just to see how it goes. (I shall be the guinea pig) If you dont hear from me.....I would have got food poisoning.. ha ha.  I have a very strong stomach though. lets see. thanks once again. If the bride is agreeable, i will order the white balsamic too.

-K8memphis Posted 26 Mar 2016 , 2:22pm
post #23 of 25

i get what you mean but see -- it won't make a well person sick and it won't taste spoiled in that time frame -- that's not the test we use --  it's the bacteria count -- after being out of temp for four total accumulated hours the bacteria count multiplies exponentially out of control -- a person with crohn's for example would get bad sick -- a teeny baby would have a bad bacteria overload in their little system -- but a well person would just enjoy the taste and overcome the bacteria -- well depending on how long it had been out -- there is a point for that too --

'they' say two hours because they are allowing two hours for you for shopping/driving/getting it back down to proper temp in a fridge that is constantly being opened by 4 (on average) different peeps all day long as well as prep time, delivery etc. so...plus it's the amount of time it takes to get it back to proper temp (40 degrees f  4.4 degrees c) a lot of home fridges don't have thermometers so all the stuff in there might be at 41 or warmer all day long --

i use a commercial dedicated fridge too -- nobody's cokes or salad or anything are stored in there kwim

oh and the bacteria count is always multiplying even at the proper temp -- it just goes berserk out of temp 4 hours

kristykgs Posted 26 Mar 2016 , 7:48pm
post #24 of 25

@suzied. K8 is absolutely correct. I am a food safety instructor for Serv Safe and the 4 hour window is critical. It won't make everyone sick, but someone with immune system, younger or elder may have problems with it. Also, just because you don't get sick doesn't  mean the next person won't. I have a very sensitive stomach and have to be very careful of what I put in my mouth - hence the reason i became an instructor so I could learn all I could.

The 2 hour window is actually for this reason: In 2 hours if your food is not at the proper temperature, you have time to correct it - either cooling or heating to proper temp. After 4 hours if it is not at proper temp, it must be thrown away. 

So in terms of cake, you have 2 hours to decorate or travel or whatever, then it must be put back into the fridge to bring back down to the 41 degrees. 

suzied Posted 27 Mar 2016 , 2:57am
post #25 of 25

NOTED. with grateful thanks to you both . ok i will not experiment. Back to buttercream and cider/balsamic white vinegar to the rescue. Hey K8!  its available here at Coles. shall buy it $5.30 a small bottle.

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