Cake Tilts 2Nd Time

Decorating By kparks2 Updated 21 Sep 2014 , 2:23am by Gator Gal

kparks2 Posted 18 Sep 2014 , 12:40am
post #1 of 26

Hello. Sorry if this has been posted before.  Twice now I have made a two layered cake.  I use a moist chocolate cake from Ina Garten (Beatty's Chocolate Cake) and for the filling I use a chocolate ganache.  I made this once for my friend's parent's anniversary and tonight for my brother's birthday.  I border the bottom layer with the dam and then fill it with ganache.  I am not sure if these pics are the best representation of my issue but my friend was a customer and this cake is perfect and so moist but I do not want to sell this and it continues to tilt.  Also when stacked the 40th anniversary cake the same day my friend took it to the party she said it did sink a bit.

 

Is it my cake or is it my ganache?  I think I will try to make that cake and use just buttercream for the filling because every other cake I make stays perfectly straight.  Help!!!!!!  

 

 

 

25 replies
dukeswalker Posted 18 Sep 2014 , 2:03am
post #2 of 26

Are you letting your ganache sit or are you pouring it on?  What recipe are you using for the ganache?  Seems to me like it might not be stiff enough and/or you are putting too much ganache between your layers. Also - I see you're in Tampa (warm - like AZ), are you refrigerating your cake? It could be that your ganache is melting...

kparks2 Posted 18 Sep 2014 , 2:06am
post #3 of 26

I just pour it on and then place the top layer on.  I don't let it sit.  Yes Florida is hot but I am in an air conditioned place.  Would that make a difference? I know people say the state can vary but I figured indoors should not unless windows are opened.  I just do chocolate and heavy cream.  Your tips are great.

AZCouture Posted 18 Sep 2014 , 7:25am
post #4 of 26

You're filling the cake with delicious, heavenly ganache, and then icing it with an American buttercream? That's kind of odd. Try ganache for the whole thing. And not the pouring kind, the kind that's thick and creamy like peanut butter, and sets up firm. The kind all the Aussie gals use. Just google Planet Cake ganache recipes, you'll find some great info. But again, ganache on the inside, and then powdered sugar and shortening icing outside? Yikes! Trust me, if you actually try ganache, you'll see how much better it is. And will hold up much better in a climate like yours.

kparks2 Posted 18 Sep 2014 , 3:43pm
post #5 of 26

AZ Couture.  I see your concern but actually I got the idea from a wedding I went to.  The caked had ganache in the middle and butter cream on the outside as it was of course wedding white and to me that was a great taste on flavors.  Now if you're suggest that those two don't mix then that makes sense and next time I should use a pudding, fruit filling or butter cream along with a buttercream frosting.  What are your thoughts on that?

AZCouture Posted 18 Sep 2014 , 4:07pm
post #6 of 26

AIt's just odd, maybe it's just me though. It seems like it's making a really gourmet treat inside, then slapping on something mediocre on the outside. Like, if you're going to have lobster for dinner, might as well splurge on that thirty dollar bottle of wine too, or what's the point? :D Maybe not the best example, but I'm persnickety about cake, so it could just be me and my cake snob tendencies.

I don't use puddings ever either. I just think if you're bothering to make ganache, which is creamy and rich, pair it with more creamy and rich ganache. Paired with thick overly sweet shortening based buttercream seems to clash, in my mind.

kparks2 Posted 18 Sep 2014 , 4:40pm
post #7 of 26

No you make sense and every person has different preferences.  Sometimes I like a bit of clash like a fruit filling or a custard based filling with butter cream because I get so much butter cream on the outside that I do not care for much on the inside if that makes sense.  Same with cupcakes, sometimes a different filling topped with buttercream to me tastes delicious.
 

However, do you feel that was the cause to the leaning?  I feel that even using a ganache frosting may cause tilting too.

jenmat Posted 18 Sep 2014 , 6:08pm
post #8 of 26

so was this chilled before putting together and chilled before icing it? Looks like a temp problem maybe. 

kparks2 Posted 18 Sep 2014 , 6:13pm
post #9 of 26

Yeah I am wondering that and someone else suggested that I did not let it sit.  I will say that I am going to try that same recipe but with just all butter cream but I want to make sure the recipe is not the problem.

kblickster Posted 18 Sep 2014 , 7:12pm
post #10 of 26

I don't think it's your cake.  Like AZ said, do not use poured ganache.  Use a thicker ganache.  Make sure your cake is completely cooled before you put any filling in and let it firm up before you ice the outside of the cake. 

costumeczar Posted 19 Sep 2014 , 12:47am
post #11 of 26

Oh yeah, it's the ganache. If you're going to use the poured ganache you'll need to refrigerate the cake to keep it firm, or the ganache will stay soft and the layers will slide.

 

And on another note, I put ganache fillings inside the cake and confectioner's sugar buttercreams on the outsides all the time because I do wedding cakes and they're generally white. I'm not a fan of ganache for covering cakes, to me that makes them too rich. But I use an all-butter confectioner's sugar icing, which people (for some unknown reason) seem to think tastes better than all-shortening ones. I also put fruit curds, preserves, meringue buttercreams, cannoli fillings and fresh fruit inside cakes that are covered with confectioner's sugar buttercreams, no big deal.

maybenot Posted 19 Sep 2014 , 12:58am
post #12 of 26

You could try whipping your ganache filling in order to make it more firm.  I love that as a filling and as an icing.

kparks2 Posted 19 Sep 2014 , 1:45am
post #13 of 26

Thanks everyone for your input.  Makes sense that it is the ganache and that is great advice for refrigeration and whipping.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by costumeczar 
 

Oh yeah, it's the ganache. If you're going to use the poured ganache you'll need to refrigerate the cake to keep it firm, or the ganache will stay soft and the layers will slide.

 

And on another note, I put ganache fillings inside the cake and confectioner's sugar buttercreams on the outsides all the time because I do wedding cakes and they're generally white. I'm not a fan of ganache for covering cakes, to me that makes them too rich. But I use an all-butter confectioner's sugar icing, which people (for some unknown reason) seem to think tastes better than all-shortening ones. I also put fruit curds, preserves, meringue buttercreams, cannoli fillings and fresh fruit inside cakes that are covered with confectioner's sugar buttercreams, no big deal.

Glad it is not just me.  Thought I was weird for liking those combos for cake lol.  I appreciate the great advice. :)

costumeczar Posted 19 Sep 2014 , 2:12am
post #14 of 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by maybenot 
 

You could try whipping your ganache filling in order to make it more firm.  I love that as a filling and as an icing.

yeah, that's good...Eat it with a spoon

Bunny0410 Posted 19 Sep 2014 , 3:24am
post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZCouture 
 

You're filling the cake with delicious, heavenly ganache, and then icing it with an American buttercream? That's kind of odd. Try ganache for the whole thing. And not the pouring kind, the kind that's thick and creamy like peanut butter, and sets up firm. The kind all the Aussie gals use. Just google Planet Cake ganache recipes, you'll find some great info. But again, ganache on the inside, and then powdered sugar and shortening icing outside? Yikes! Trust me, if you actually try ganache, you'll see how much better it is. And will hold up much better in a climate like yours.

 

I agree with above post.

 

If you watch some tutorials on "how to ganache a cake" you will see the consistency of the ganache required.

 

the first time i made a ganache it was runny and my cake although yummy, would not have been able to secure any kind of icing to it.

 

I use the planet cake recipe, and it works a treat. The key is to leave it overnight to set. (IMO)

 

I also wouldn't put buttercream over ganache. I guess its a personal preference.

cai0311 Posted 19 Sep 2014 , 2:23pm
post #16 of 26

AWhen I fill a cake I allow it to settle overnight in my fridge. That ensures all the air bubbles, icing compression... is finished before I ice. I then "trim" all my cakes (which are nice and firm because they are chilled) to make sure the cake is just a tad smaller than the cake board. This allows me to use the board as a guide and get perfectly straight sides.

leah_s Posted 19 Sep 2014 , 7:09pm
post #17 of 26

If at all possible (no perishable filling) cakes should settle at room temp.  If you think about it, a well-chilled filling isn't going to move.  If it's going to move, you want that to happen before finishing.  And the cake will eventually come to room temp at the venue.  You want to know what's its going to look like at that point.  Work with the cake at room temp as much as possible, and definitely during the settling process.  But, I never use fillings that are perishable.

cai0311 Posted 19 Sep 2014 , 7:14pm
post #18 of 26

AI haven't had any issues with the cakes settling in the fridge. I do understand what you mean, but by the time the cake is chilled through and through it has been in the fridge for several hours setting.

costumeczar Posted 19 Sep 2014 , 7:45pm
post #19 of 26

I'm with Leah about the room temperature thing. I do all of my filling and icing of the cake while it's at room temperature because if you're working with cold cake you don't know what will happen when it warms up. If something's going to shift it will do it when the cake is warm, not cold, So you could deliver a cake that you've been working with while it was frozen, chilled, whatever, and when it comes to room temp, that's when things move. Bulges and air bubbles under the icing are caused by softening fillings and pockets of air that expand when the cake warms up, so just watch out if you do everything cold. I deliver everything cold, but I only refrigerate after the cake is decorated and has had plenty of time to let me see if anything weird is going to happen.

maybenot Posted 19 Sep 2014 , 10:48pm
post #20 of 26

I'm in the "let it settle at room temp" camp, too.  I always try to let them sit, filled & crumb coated, for at least 8 hrs.  If there's a bulge, or defect that surfaces, I can just scrape it away before finish icing.

 

I also never trim the sides of my cake because I feel that it destroys the natural integrity provided by the baked sides.  My baked cakes are already a bit smaller than the cakeboard, so I have an icing guide at the start.

 

Everyone has a process that works best with their recipes and work method.  It just takes some experience & experimentation.

AZCouture Posted 19 Sep 2014 , 10:58pm
post #21 of 26

A

Original message sent by maybenot

I also never trim the sides of my cake because I feel that it destroys the natural integrity provided by the baked sides.

I couldn't agree with that more. I absolutely cringe when I see people talking about making mini cakes by cutting them out of sheets. All that crumb is exposed now, you're losing the tight sealed crust, it's going to be more difficult to ice smoothly, etc. etc. Yep, agree, agree. I actually don't trim anything at all from mine, the sides, the top, nothing.

jchuck Posted 19 Sep 2014 , 11:45pm
post #22 of 26

AIt could be ad simple as your cake boards. Especially with tbe columns. If there not firm and sturdy enough, your cake could sink. Happened to me.

costumeczar Posted 20 Sep 2014 , 11:35am
post #23 of 26

I'll add that I would refer to what your cakes were doing as "sliding" not "tilting." that makes a difference because when you say "sliding" I immediately think of it as a filling problem, which I think you cakes had.
"Tilting" I would think of as more of a structural thing with supports, etc.

BeesKnees578 Posted 20 Sep 2014 , 2:01pm
post #24 of 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by cai0311 

I haven't had any issues with the cakes settling in the fridge. I do understand what you mean, but by the time the cake is chilled through and through it has been in the fridge for several hours setting

 

Not to sound argumentative, but cakes chill from the outside in...so what ever air you have in there would be trapped in there because the outside is cold before the inside, leaving it no way to get out through the chilled outside.

 

This has worked for me in the past, but on a couple cakes that I HAD to leave out overnight once decorated...OH BOY, MAJOR, but still semi-fixable, air bubble damage!  So now I leave them out to settle with a little weight on top...then chill.  Just seems to make more sense to me. 

 

I don't want those trapped bubbles coming out if the cake is left to sit long enough to be room temp throughout.  (I keep my refrigerated as much as possible throughout the whole process after settling).

 

HTH

kparks2 Posted 20 Sep 2014 , 7:44pm
post #25 of 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by costumeczar 
 

I'll add that I would refer to what your cakes were doing as "sliding" not "tilting." that makes a difference because when you say "sliding" I immediately think of it as a filling problem, which I think you cakes had.
"Tilting" I would think of as more of a structural thing with supports, etc.

Yeah that is a better fit for my issue.  I really appreciate everyone's help and personally as I do like a ganache filling I will take the advice to let it sit and maybe whip it too.  You all rock.

Gator Gal Posted 21 Sep 2014 , 2:23am
post #26 of 26

AHave you ever tried filling your layers in the pan and freezing in the pan?

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