berryblondeboys Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyah

In our county it's not just homebakers. We make everybody do the same thing. You can't BBQ at home and sell it - you can't set up a grill at the races and sell, or make ice cream. It's not just being after homebakers (honestly it's easier to bake and sell illegally than anything else) but we try to make everybody do the same stuff - temporary food vendors have to have 3 comp sink and hand sink, hot water the works.

I agree to an extent that it should be easier if you're not dealing with perishable fillings and such but it just snowballs from there. I can't tell you how many times we tell a convenience store owner they can sell prepackaged stuff with no license and then you stop to get a coke and there sits hotdogs and biscuits.

Oh and that's how a lot of people get turned in - we have someone ask about what they need to do and then they start listing off names when they find out how much they have to do.




And this is true too... people take advantage of the system. You allow one thing and they take a mile, so then you take EVERYTHING away... One bad apple ruins the bunch sort of thing...

melissa

Janette Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 4:53pm

It's mentioned that's how a lot of people get turned in.

I always wonder about the "people" that are turning someone else in. Is is the personal thrill of telling themselves "ha, ha I showed them they can't get away with that".

Don't try to tell me they do it for the public's best interest. They do it because they get enjoyment telling on others, or they think they saved the world. Or, they have just too much time on their hands.

I never got the concept of "turning" someone in.

You may say they are breaking the law. Yes, and when the time comes they will be caught and dealt with. But, it's not for me to "turn" someone in.

In school we called that a Tattle Tale.

Mickig Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 4:54pm

Here's a question. I know a woman who bakes cookies and puts them into baskets that she puts together for sale. Her business is gift baskets, not baking. Does she escape the whole licensing dilemma? The cookies are just one of the many things that she will put into a basket, but if you want cookies she will bake them...and they're very good. She also sells them at bake sales in packs of six, with a tag attached advertising her baskets. Hmmm. Is this just a very clever way to sell her baked goods and get around the law? I wonder???? icon_wink.gif

Mickig

JoAnnB Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 8:24pm

What she is doing is not legal, unless she is baking in a licensed kitchen. Putting stuff in gift baskets does not exempt her from the rules.

Many people just don't know any better. Unless you have some reason to ask, it doesn't occur to some people to wonder if there are rules around what they are doing.

BooBooKitty Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 9:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janette

It's mentioned that's how a lot of people get turned in.

I always wonder about the "people" that are turning someone else in. Is is the personal thrill of telling themselves "ha, ha I showed them they can't get away with that".

Don't try to tell me they do it for the public's best interest. They do it because they get enjoyment telling on others, or they think they saved the world. Or, they have just too much time on their hands.

I never got the concept of "turning" someone in.

You may say they are breaking the law. Yes, and when the time comes they will be caught and dealt with. But, it's not for me to "turn" someone in.

In school we called that a Tattle Tale.





thumbs_up.gif

I find it hard to believe that there are people out there that started from DAY 1 in a legal kitchen and NEVER sold anything from home, Even Martha Stewart started out baking pies from her home kitchen, maybe they should have added some prison time to her. icon_rolleyes.gif

RisqueBusiness Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 10:35pm

When I investigated moving to Florida in 1999, they still allowed you to bake from home, so...it took me a year to close down my house and my bakery in Pennsylvania and get rid of my equipment.

I come down and quess what? While I was up North packing to come South ...they changed the rules!

So, I got a job temping instead and because I live on the Beach, I got one of those teeny tiny kitchens..not worth the stress to even bake for my family.

The "rumor" was that the Baker's Association ( or whatever political group..) got together and petitioned to have the rules changed...too many home bakers where undercutting the Retail Bakeries and they were losing money left and right and closing down.

So, they came up with the "rules of engagement" to protect an economic system created by teh mom an pop bakeries.

Well, that's what I heard anyway! lol

SweetConfectionsChef Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 10:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BooBooKitty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janette

It's mentioned that's how a lot of people get turned in.

I always wonder about the "people" that are turning someone else in. Is is the personal thrill of telling themselves "ha, ha I showed them they can't get away with that".

Don't try to tell me they do it for the public's best interest. They do it because they get enjoyment telling on others, or they think they saved the world. Or, they have just too much time on their hands.

I never got the concept of "turning" someone in.

You may say they are breaking the law. Yes, and when the time comes they will be caught and dealt with. But, it's not for me to "turn" someone in.

In school we called that a Tattle Tale.




thumbs_up.gif

I find it hard to believe that there are people out there that started from DAY 1 in a legal kitchen and NEVER sold anything from home, Even Martha Stewart started out baking pies from her home kitchen, maybe they should have added some prison time to her. icon_rolleyes.gif




I never sold anything until I opened my licensed shop! And I'm sorry, but people who sell illegally from their homes do undercut licensed bakeries. It's bad enough we have to deal with Wal-mart and grocery store bakeries! But people that are not legal, not paying taxes, & not paying for licensing are making it harder on those of us that have followed the law and are trying to make a legal living for our families. I understand the "hobby" and making things for family and friends...even charging them for it...but when unlicensed bakers are at bridal shows, advertising with websites, and selling to people outside of their "circle"...come on! The line has to be drawn somewhere and our state, county, city HD's do just that! Breaking the law is breaking the law whether we like the law or not. I'm not trying to sour this topic, but I just had to jump in with my 2cents.

moydear77 Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 1:19am

I think that this is a very heated topic. I respect everyone who is licensed and for some it is easy and others very hard. Here it is very hard but it is legal to sell cakes. We cannot advertise -not even a business card. I have spoke with my department of ag and they confirmed it. Now I do not make any amount that would have anything to do with my taxes. If I did you can just claim it under bakesale laws. Just a thought for the Minnesotans!
I personally do not undercut.
I am in process of dealing with licensing. I envy those in PA and Virginia-You have it easier from what I hear. You can be licensed with your home kitchen.

Edited to add that we cannot sell to licensed venues!!

flavacakes Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 2:17am

Thanks moydear! I was thinking that we couldn't sell at all here w/o lic. I'm so glad because there has been people that asked to buy a cake from me and I always tell them that I can't because it's illegal. icon_lol.gif Not that I'm starting a business, not at all, I just hate saying no to people for the occasional cake order! thumbs_up.gif

CoutureCake Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 6:21am

Flava... It still has to be BAKED in the licensed kitchen in MN in order to sell it even if you aren't advertising... Direct from the inspector and complaince officers I/DH/Kitchen Manager/Business Manager all talked with... Of course, if you've got access to the space, it's worth going through the two inspections and ServeSafe so you can advertise...

There is the bake sale and church clause, but of course, it has to be at those venues...

moydear77 Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoutureCake

Flava... It still has to be BAKED in the licensed kitchen in MN in order to sell it even if you aren't advertising... Direct from the inspector and complaince officers I/DH/Kitchen Manager/Business Manager all talked with... Of course, if you've got access to the space, it's worth going through the two inspections and ServeSafe so you can advertise...

There is the bake sale and church clause, but of course, it has to be at those venues...




Actually it does not-That is what my contact from the department of agriculture told me. That applies if you want to sell to a licensed venue.
28A.15 EXCLUSIONS.
Subdivision 1. Licensing provisions applicability. The licensing provisions of sections
28A.01 to 28A.16 shall not apply to the following:
Subd. 2. Sales by farmers; others not in food business. Persons selling the products of
the farm or garden occupied and cultivated by them, directly to or to persons not regularly engaged in the business of manufacturing and selling food and who prepare food only on order of and for sale the ultimate consumer, or to educational, charitable or religious organizations not
regularly engaged in the business of manufacturing, processing, or selling food at their established
educational, charitable or religious institutions.

tincanbaby Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 3:29pm

Moydear 77
I think your listing only applies to food products produce on a farm or home garden; Referring to garden produce.

moydear77 Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 3:36pm

No really read the bold print. I do speak to my guy at the Department of Agriculture at least every three months. Read the bold print. He knows that I do cakes and sell them.
I would be others not in the food business.

others not in food business

or to persons not regularly engaged in the business of manufacturing and selling food and who prepare food only on order of and for sale the ultimate consumer

This exclusion applies to others and not just farmers--That is why they list churchs too.

tincanbaby Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 3:41pm

Moydear 77
I think your listing only applies to food products produce on a farm or home garden; Referring to garden produce.

moydear77 Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tincanbaby

Moydear 77
I think your listing only applies to food products produce on a farm or home garden; Referring to garden produce.




Well if this is so then I guess my contact who told me about this exclusion is completetly wrong which I doubt.

flavacakes Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tincanbaby

Moydear 77
I think your listing only applies to food products produce on a farm or home garden; Referring to garden produce.




Actually Moydear is right, I spoke with our Dept. of Ag guy and he DID say that we can sell, but NO advertising. He even told me that the best way to do it is through word of mouth, so he knows what my intentions are it is in no way illegal. So no worries tincanbaby! icon_wink.gif

mjs4492 Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 4:23pm

I've enjoyed this thread.

I'm not licensed but want to be. 99.9% of the cakes that I do are "freebies" but I'm always hoping someone will see one and call and make an order. On the other hand, I'm always nervous about being reported.
There are only about 2 "legal" bakeries in my area, but that is not why I want to be legal. I love decorating cakes and want to be able to advertise and sell them and not have to be worried about it.
I have 10 acres and could easily have a separate building and all the rest of the requirements to be "legal". But don't know if I could be as strong as Risque about the financial end of it. I've spent the better part of yesterday finding out about the different grants, loans, etc. available. Not much help.

So here you have someone really wanting to be legal but unable to figure out how. So am forced to do it from home - illegally.

RisqueBusiness Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 5:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjs4492

I've enjoyed this thread.

I'm not licensed but want to be. 99.9% of the cakes that I do are "freebies" but I'm always hoping someone will see one and call and make an order. On the other hand, I'm always nervous about being reported.
There are only about 2 "legal" bakeries in my area, but that is not why I want to be legal. I love decorating cakes and want to be able to advertise and sell them and not have to be worried about it.
I have 10 acres and could easily have a separate building and all the rest of the requirements to be "legal". But don't know if I could be as strong as Risque about the financial end of it. I've spent the better part of yesterday finding out about the different grants, loans, etc. available. Not much help.

Some thoughts on your situation..being as you have 10 acres your financial situation is a heck of a lot stronger than mine. Any improvememnt that you do to your land is money in your pocket in the form of equity..and I'm sure that putting a building on your property is NO where going to bring you the rent/mortgage of 3500 a month that I have to pull out of thin air to keep a roof over my family and my shop open.

Also, you can invest a few thousand dollars and get yourself a bare bones prefab building..making sure that it's "legal" with your zoning board. You can trick it out with a full kitchen and bath...so if you EVER feel that this is not for you, you can always rent it to GOOD , PRESCREENED , QUALITY TENANTS..( even if the real estate agency gets a piece, they will do a credit check and background for you!)

and it really doesn't have to be a large space! Look at all I do with 300 to 500 sq. ft. a small studio with a screened off front so you can do your cake consults and cake pick ups! thumbs_up.gif

Make sure your zoning is good on this...because even if you "work" at it a little at a time..eventually you will have a "legal" space..just need to get the bare bones in there to pass your inspection...you can make it pretty later on..lol

If I had acess to 10 acres ..man oh man..lol

So here you have someone really wanting to be legal but unable to figure out how. So am forced to do it from home - illegally.


mjs4492 Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 6:21pm

Thanks for listening! It's so frustrating!

And as a matter of fact, Thursday, I saw some of those very small mobile homes for sale. Very cute, very small and the thought ran through my mind, I wonder if I could get one of those and renovate it into a shop? Already has a kitchen, bathroom, etc......
I'm in the county as far as zoning and it would pass. Now the septic tank, power, etc. to check on.
I'm going to have my own place. And yes, it will just take some time. thumbs_up.gif

Will post my business sign icon_smile.gif "Chuck's Custom Cakes" in honor of my Daddy.

RisqueBusiness Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 6:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjs4492

Thanks for listening! It's so frustrating!

And as a matter of fact, Thursday, I saw some of those very small mobile homes for sale. Very cute, very small and the thought ran through my mind, I wonder if I could get one of those and renovate it into a shop? Already has a kitchen, bathroom, etc......
I'm in the county as far as zoning and it would pass. Now the septic tank, power, etc. to check on.
I'm going to have my own place. And yes, it will just take some time. thumbs_up.gif

Will post my business sign icon_smile.gif "Chuck's Custom Cakes" in honor of my Daddy.




See? converting an existing trailer..not a bad , not bad..and ..3C's..what a wonderful homage to your dad! Check it out..even if you go slow..at least you're going..lol thumbs_up.gif

mjs4492 Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 6:28pm

thumbs_up.gif

Can't wait 'til Monday now icon_lol.gif

CoutureCake Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 7:25pm

The one question I would have in regard to the MN statute is (genuine curiosity here, so might just call on it out of that curiosity for my own sake, there are times when getting into the rented space becomes a battle of butting heads), with the intention of the law, I know it's in reference to those who grow and sell products like to the farmer's market, a food stand at their Christmas Tree farm or apple orchard on a weekend, or honey which requires some level of manufacturing to get it into the jar, etc., but the loophole part of it to answer the question "Can Grandma Bake My Wedding Cake, yet still deliver it to my licensed reception venue."..

Like I said, it's a genuine curiousness on the aspect of, if I'm baking a cake, not advertising, her reception is taking place in a licensed venue, can I still bring the cake in that was baked in the home kitchen, legally??

Might just have to check into this one icon_cool.gificon_cool.gificon_cool.gificon_biggrin.gif

moydear77 Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 7:36pm

I have consistantly wrote in my post that this does not apply to licensed venues.

Go back and read. It says Farmer; others

It also talks about churches. Why such doubt. My guy at the Department of Ag know that I am not a farmer and that I am selling cakes.

I did write that this does not apply to licensed venues.

mjs4492 Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 7:49pm

CoutureCake:
I know here in Alabama, if the bride and/or groom let the church know that the cake is a gift, it's allowed. But someone has to ask first. Same at restaurants.

StCakes Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 9:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by koolaidstains

You know what I find interesting is all these shows on food network about all these up and coming food businesses. And almost all of them started out of their homes. But, never is there a mention of it not being legal.




Yes! Are you referring to Recipe for Success? I'm addicted to that show. Why, just last week they showed Kate Sullivan of Lovin Sullivan cakes baking in her kitchen, child strapped to her back. She ran her buisness out of her house, why they even showed her living room littered with toys from her toddler. ALL of them start out of their home and yet we never hear about them being licensed!
Same with Roker on the Road, Food Finds, and that show with those two handsome Deen boys. They mention all of the time that they began their "business" from home. I wonder if the health dept went and slapped them with retroactive fines after the show aired.
Being on both sides of the fence as I have sold from home illegally and been licensed, to me all the health dept cares about is the check you're writing to them for your permit. My kitchen is a clean today as it was in 1970, just the rules have changed.

RisqueBusiness Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 10:06pm

"Being on both sides of the fence as I have sold from home illegally and been licensed, to me all the health dept cares about is the check you're writing to them for your permit. My kitchen is a clean today as it was in 1970, just the rules have changed. "

StCakes, I have to more than half heartedly agree with you there! lol

You're right..but, one does what one does and keep on the right side of the laws and hope for the best!

I really don't know What I would've done if I had had a bigger kitchen.

so, I won't go there..just keep on churning out those cakes to pay my bills!! lol

StCakes Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 10:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RisqueBusiness

"Being on both sides of the fence as I have sold from home illegally and been licensed, to me all the health dept cares about is the check you're writing to them for your permit. My kitchen is a clean today as it was in 1970, just the rules have changed. "

StCakes, I have to more than half heartedly agree with you there! lol

You're right..but, one does what one does and keep on the right side of the laws and hope for the best!

I really don't know What I would've done if I had had a bigger kitchen.

so, I won't go there..just keep on churning out those cakes to pay my bills!! lol




RB, I just saw your sig line, I'm laughing so hard I had to get up to relieve myself, you aren't playing on a line from the Soup Nazi of Manhattan are you?
icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif

RisqueBusiness Posted 27 Jan 2007 , 10:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by StCakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by RisqueBusiness

"Being on both sides of the fence as I have sold from home illegally and been licensed, to me all the health dept cares about is the check you're writing to them for your permit. My kitchen is a clean today as it was in 1970, just the rules have changed. "

StCakes, I have to more than half heartedly agree with you there! lol

You're right..but, one does what one does and keep on the right side of the laws and hope for the best!

I really don't know What I would've done if I had had a bigger kitchen.

so, I won't go there..just keep on churning out those cakes to pay my bills!! lol




RB, I just saw your sig line, I'm laughing so hard I had to get up to relieve myself, you aren't playing on a line from the Soup Nazi of Manhattan are you?
icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif





Yes, Darlin'..and getting some T-shirts made as we speak..was just online with the company to design them..lol

tonyah Posted 28 Jan 2007 , 2:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjs4492

Thanks for listening! It's so frustrating!

And as a matter of fact, Thursday, I saw some of those very small mobile homes for sale. Very cute, very small and the thought ran through my mind, I wonder if I could get one of those and renovate it into a shop? Already has a kitchen, bathroom, etc......
I'm in the county as far as zoning and it would pass. Now the septic tank, power, etc. to check on.
I'm going to have my own place. And yes, it will just take some time. thumbs_up.gif

Will post my business sign icon_smile.gif "Chuck's Custom Cakes" in honor of my Daddy.




I have several inspections of converted storage buildings if you want to go that route.

RisqueBusiness Posted 28 Jan 2007 , 3:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by StCakes




RB, I just saw your sig line, I'm laughing so hard I had to get up to relieve myself, you aren't playing on a line from the Soup Nazi of Manhattan are you?
icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif




My shop is in the shadows of Lord and Taylor and Neiman Marcus, and I'm in a "full service" spa..

So I get a LOT of clients in with "THAT ATTITUDE"...and I'm sorry but the ONLY one with attitude in my shop is ME.!!

But, I'm slowly training my clients, now ..they hand me the money and ask me...
"ok, I've paid, so you'll take care of everything?" lol

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