berryblondeboys Posted 25 Jan 2007 , 10:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyah



What kind of grease trap are you talking about? The 1000 gallon one or the grease interceptor? For a bakery I would have them get a grease interceptor - goes under the sink and can be cleaned when it gets full. I have seen people not baking have problems with grease - bath oils and such and it causes problems.




this is a good point (and I'm enjoying this discussion... )Why don't they have EVERY household have a grease interceptor? I'm always worried about grease in my pipes and wonder what all that stuff in the garbage disposal does to the sewage treatment plants - like what's worse - filling more in the landfills or putting it in the sewage treatment plant?

And, to be honest, I don't know what is needed in the states that require a grease trap... you are right, an interceptor might be a really good idea, but probably is for everyone who cooks... (See I'm flexible!)

Here's a question for you inspector... why do they want to see me have a double sink when I have a dishwasher? Don't things get cleaner/disinfected better in a hot/steaming dishwasher? Not everything can go in the dishwasher, this is true... is that why?

Also, I use different work surface for meats than my veggies... I'm SOOOOO worried/disgusted at the thought of meat and things eaten raw/uncooked mixing... Ewwwww!!! But different work surface still isn't different kitchen. I can easily see someone with two kitchens in their house using the second kitchen for other things too - like putting the turkey in the second oven and so on.... it will happen no matter HOW many regulations you put in there.

I agree that people need to learn more about food safety. I told my best friend for YEARS to clean out her fridge with all her "last forever" condiments... Well... she had to take a course in microbiology and she learned some things about her "last forever" condiments that made her clean that fridge out! LOL

melsisa

berryblondeboys Posted 25 Jan 2007 , 10:28pm

And drat... this discussion made me miss an auction I was watching! Argh!!! And it was for a cake thing too!! drats!!! LOL

Melissa

tonyah Posted 25 Jan 2007 , 10:35pm

Actually we require 3 sinks to wash, rinse, and sanitize. Your household dishwasher doesn't get as hot as a commercial one - we don't allow them in daycares or such. Also the chemicals are different.

I'm more for the 3 sinks anyway - you end up soaking items in a bleach solution for a minute - more sanitary to me anyway.

HollyPJ Posted 25 Jan 2007 , 10:36pm

A couple of years ago our city included a notice in our utility (water) bills asking us not to dump grease down our drains. They were having a problem with huge grease blockages in sewer lines and at the treatment plants. They asked that we dump things like salad dressings, icings(!), meat grease etc. in the trash instead of washing them down the the kitchen drain.

berryblondeboys Posted 25 Jan 2007 , 10:46pm

I always put these things in the trash as well... I'm always amazed at how much more trash we have than ANY of our neighbors too (we live in a townhouse so it's easy to see what other people bring out for our twice a week pick up)... We eat cook all our meals from home and almost all of it from scratch, two adults, 1 older child and one toddler. I fill about 5 tall kitchen garbage bags a week EASILY and I also recycle all cans, bottles, paper and anything else that they allow us to recycle... Makes me wonder what other people are doing? Do they not eat??? I don't even use disposable things that much, but try to get things we can reuse - so sandwiches go into containers, not plastic bags and so on...

Well... this is morphing from where we started, so I'll stop there...

Melissa

cakes80 Posted 25 Jan 2007 , 10:47pm

Wow! what a thread! I have struggled for a long time to try to reconcile my love for cake decorating and a way to make money at it. In MN it is not easy to get licensed either, I believe there is a "bake sale" clause that lets you sell under a thousand dollars worth of baked goods as long as you don't advertise. Here are some other ideas I've thought about trying. (I am an excellent "thinker" it's the "doing" I have trouble with) icon_biggrin.gif But maybe some of these might work for some of you.

1. Freelance cake decorator (why not? - with the portfolios I've seen on this website anyone would be thrilled to have you guys) Than you could work when it was convenient for you.

2. Making gumpaste flowers/figures from home...you'd still probably have to get licensed but maybe not the huge expense of ovens, frig's and seperate kitchens.

3. Cake Muralist. Hire yourself out to paint on fondant. It seems like it's becoming a trend.

4. Make beautiful designer cake dummies to rent and arrange for sheet cakes to be served from another vendor.

I don't know if these are all feasable but just some brainstorming for us who would love to decorate, make money and have your own business. I'll let you know if I get any of these up and running.

Happy Baking to all of you (licensed and unlicensed) icon_biggrin.gif

bluehen92 Posted 25 Jan 2007 , 10:49pm

The cottage law in Ohio sounds like an exception here in DE. I was told by the Dept. of Public Health that if you want to be legal DE, you would need a seperate kitchen with seperate entrance (I'm not even sure we can convert a garage, because of the door leading into the house). UNLESS you are a farmer and live on a working farm. Then you are allowed to bake cakes, cookies, etc., and sell them at farmers markets and roadside stands. The only requirement for them is that they allow an inspection once a year. I guess farmers kitchens are cleaner than everyone elses icon_wink.gif

-Lisa

P.S. After reading this thread I think I'll look into one of those grease interceptors. Does anyone happen to know where I could look for one? I never (intentionally) put oil/Crisco down the drain, but we have a septic system & I'm paranoid about anything happening to it.

tonyah Posted 25 Jan 2007 , 10:52pm

your plumber should know where to get one. Google it and you will find all sorts of information!

HTH

Janette Posted 25 Jan 2007 , 10:55pm

I just took apart a dummy cake and when I scrapped the frosting I put it in a plastic garbage bag. I wouldn't even think to put it down the drain.

Booboo, I can't believe that story. That's one I will have to repeat.

Meat packing house, I worked in one for four years, you don't want to know. And, MI is one of the strickest. In fact they closed and moved to OH where they weren't so strict.

bluehen92 Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 12:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyah

your plumber should know where to get one. Google it and you will find all sorts of information!

HTH




Thanks icon_biggrin.gif

-Lisa

tincanbaby Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 12:42am

My personal opinion: To make it fair across the country, all states, should have to have licensed kitchens to do business. This crap about one state allowing baking at home and another state allowing just non refrig goods, and yet another state has these strict standards to follow is just that...a bunch of crap. They should all have to follow the same strict standards or do away with the standards, all states.

moydear77 Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 12:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakes80

Wow! what a thread! I have struggled for a long time to try to reconcile my love for cake decorating and a way to make money at it. In MN it is not easy to get licensed either, I believe there is a "bake sale" clause that lets you sell under a thousand dollars worth of baked goods as long as you don't advertise. Here are some other ideas I've thought about trying. (I am an excellent "thinker" it's the "doing" I have trouble with) icon_biggrin.gif But maybe some of these might work for some of you.

1. Freelance cake decorator (why not? - with the portfolios I've seen on this website anyone would be thrilled to have you guys) Than you could work when it was convenient for you.

2. Making gumpaste flowers/figures from home...you'd still probably have to get licensed but maybe not the huge expense of ovens, frig's and seperate kitchens.

3. Cake Muralist. Hire yourself out to paint on fondant. It seems like it's becoming a trend.

4. Make beautiful designer cake dummies to rent and arrange for sheet cakes to be served from another vendor.

I don't know if these are all feasable but just some brainstorming for us who would love to decorate, make money and have your own business. I'll let you know if I get any of these up and running.

Happy Baking to all of you (licensed and unlicensed) icon_biggrin.gif




I think that I have spoken to about this very subject. IN MN we can sell cakes but not to licensed venues. We cannot advertise i.e. Business cards. Now IRS different story! There is a statute that allows for the sale of cakes because we do it on a order only basis that goes to the ultimate consumer. I took Sanitation classes and it is quite strict here.

You can sell Dummy cakes as a business, but I would not want crappy cakes assoicated with me.

Gumpaste flowers and chocolate you still need a licensed facility.

berryblondeboys Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 12:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tincanbaby

My personal opinion: To make it fair across the country, all states, should have to have licensed kitchens to do business. This crap about one state allowing baking at home and another state allowing just non refrig goods, and yet another state has these strict standards to follow is just that...a bunch of crap. They should all have to follow the same strict standards or do away with the standards, all states.




Well... remember, states are supposed to be independent and just have an umbrella to cover them for major issues. It was designed to be 50 independent states that believed in freedoms and would fight together to keep those freedoms, but they didnt' want a central government dealing with domestic issues.

Of course, they couldn't have forseen the way people would travel between and couldn't have know how connected we all would become... But we have different prison systems, different laws, different speed limits, different educational policies and standards, different driver's license requirements, etc.... And.. it's good really as we are not homogenous... urban areas are a bit, but not everywhere.

melissa

OhMyGoodies Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 1:24am

Price... You live in MD as well you said? (I've forgotten since I had to play catch up since I was gone lol) I live in Easton... on the other side of the bridge. I called the local county Health Department who called the State Health Department who said it was ok as long as I didn't advertise. She said strictly that means: NO buisness cards, NO flyers in stores, NO telephone book ads, NO newspaper ads, ONLY word of mouth is allowed for me to do this. So I'm struggling right now getting up and going but word of mouth is helping some. I've got an order for a babyshower cake due in April which will be my most expencive/profitable cake to date. I've got a great friend who passes my name to EVERYONE! that she hears talking about cakes lol. I've got a few friends at the grocery stores that are looking for new private bakers since their favorite went out of business. So I'm getting there with just word of mouth but it's still kinda slow.

I'm glad TCHD isn't so strict to tell me no I can't do it at all. She did mention to me my other options if I'd like to advertise I can rent the church kitchen or the firehouse's kitchen at which time I can apply for a license and become a licensed person... and start advertising. I do plan on paying the fees at the court house and "copyrighting" my company name due to my EXpartner and fear she's take it but anyway I plan on doing that soon after we move so I can have that address on it, then I plan to look into renting the kitchen at the firehouse or the church a block from the house and then I can be "legal". I put that in quotes because technically from what the health department said I'm not doing anything ILlegal with what I'm doing now.

I think it all depends on where you live weather it's concidered illegal to do this stuff. I love where I live and I wouldn't move unless something caused it to not be here anymore like a meteor or something taking it out lmao I love it here it's beautiful and quaint and you practically know everyone at least by face lol. I think the only reason I'd ever be willing to move is if they told me I could go to jail for doing what I love to do lol. icon_smile.gif

Happy Baking and best of luck to you all!!!!

By the way: Incase someone is wondering what I asked when I called the HD I asked her specifically and plainly "I'm looking into starting a home based business of selling cakes and the like from my home... is this allowed" and she asked where I lived and I told her the street name and city (our HD serves many towns with-in our county so that was important I guess) and she asked a few details like what I would be making and I put the answer very simply "Birthday cakes, shower cakes, possibly wedding cakes, basically the same kind of thing Giant or FoodLion bakery does with the addition of cookies, fudge, brownies and cupcakes and muffins from time to time" She said she'd call the main HD for the state of MD and call me back and she did the next day and said it was alright as long as there was NO advertisment (listed above).

RisqueBusiness Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 1:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjs4492

Risque:
How many cakes do you make a week to have a business? Did you have a client list established prior to opening a business? Were there agencies that worked with you in helping financially open a business? etc. etc. etc.




Let's see if I can answer your questions one by one.

I have to make enough product to bring in enough money to pay rent...some cakes are 50.00 some cakes are 250.00 dollars

No, I didn't have an established client list prior to opening, I've been struggling to build up my client list...it's hard because I didn't have a homebased business to get me to a certain point that I had to open a shop.

Nothing and no one helped me. I had some money saved and borrowed some from the ex-hubby. I spent about a year...researching the market, doing the studies, checking the competition, working on pricing and product and doing my Business plan, doing my projected income figures.

I presented my plan to the bank and was turned down...I went to the SBA and was told that they would help me go to the bank in about 3 years to "EXPAND" my business but they would not help me with the seed money or to get started.

I opened and maintain my space open by the skin of my nails, struggling each day to make ends meet hoping that one day I will be able to make enough to hire an assistant so I'm not so bone tired each and every day.

That's why I struggle with someone, telling me or posting...about how they are a SAHB and WHY should they need to follow the rules... that will come behind me and undercut my prices...while not giving the customer a quality product!

cakes80 Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 2:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by moydear77

Quote:
Originally Posted by cakes80

Wow! what a thread! I have struggled for a long time to try to reconcile my love for cake decorating and a way to make money at it. In MN it is not easy to get licensed either, I believe there is a "bake sale" clause that lets you sell under a thousand dollars worth of baked goods as long as you don't advertise. Here are some other ideas I've thought about trying. (I am an excellent "thinker" it's the "doing" I have trouble with) icon_biggrin.gif But maybe some of these might work for some of you.

1. Freelance cake decorator (why not? - with the portfolios I've seen on this website anyone would be thrilled to have you guys) Than you could work when it was convenient for you.

2. Making gumpaste flowers/figures from home...you'd still probably have to get licensed but maybe not the huge expense of ovens, frig's and seperate kitchens.

3. Cake Muralist. Hire yourself out to paint on fondant. It seems like it's becoming a trend.

4. Make beautiful designer cake dummies to rent and arrange for sheet cakes to be served from another vendor.

I don't know if these are all feasable but just some brainstorming for us who would love to decorate, make money and have your own business. I'll let you know if I get any of these up and running.

Happy Baking to all of you (licensed and unlicensed) icon_biggrin.gif



I think that I have spoken to about this very subject. IN MN we can sell cakes but not to licensed venues. We cannot advertise i.e. Business cards. Now IRS different story! There is a statute that allows for the sale of cakes because we do it on a order only basis that goes to the ultimate consumer. I took Sanitation classes and it is quite strict here.

You can sell Dummy cakes as a business, but I would not want crappy cakes assoicated with me.

Gumpaste flowers and chocolate you still need a licensed facility.


Yup Moydear we have discussed this before. Thanks for all the great info.
I knew the other ideas weren't perfect but I thought maybe they might be helpful to people who do not have the means to get fully licensed for all types of sales or to open a shop. Maybe to specialize in one part might make it a dream that someone could achieve. I read almost all the posts on this thread and so many of said they dream of the day the can do cakes legally. Just tryin' to be helpful. icon_smile.gif Any idea would have to be researched first of course. I'm not sure how to do this quote thing so not sure if I'm posting this right. Anyway, I kept your e-mail on file it has been a great reference for me!

RisqueBusiness Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 2:26am

I'm sooooooooooooo happy we are all keeping a civil tongue in our head during this thread! This is the kind of thread that can fall apart so quickly!

I thank you all for letting each side express themselves without taking things personally or becoming hypersensitive.

I want to thank each and every one of you that have posted, read , or will post and are keeping civil!

This is great!! icon_smile.gif

HollyPJ Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 2:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RisqueBusiness

I'm sooooooooooooo happy we are all keeping a civil tongue in our head during this thread! This is the kind of thread that can fall apart so quickly!

I thank you all for letting each side express themselves without taking things personally or becoming hypersensitive.

I want to thank each and every one of you that have posted, read , or will post and are keeping civil!

This is great!! icon_smile.gif




ditto! Very refreshing!

This is thread is showing the best Cake Central can be: very controversial topic, but nobody has gotten mean or personal.

You guys are great!

berryblondeboys Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 3:20am

I appreciate the open discussion too. I hate that so often people take things so personally and can't "discuss"... what a boring world it is if we all ahve to disagree or keep our mouths shut!

It's a very interesting topic and I can understand all angles.. I just think how much easier it would have been for Risquebusiness if she could have built up a clientele before sinking everything into a business...

It's just a tough thing!!! But I've been enjoying A LOT that we are all being cooperative and willing to listen and learn!

Melissa

RisqueBusiness Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 3:28am

or for anyone that had to open without building their client base first!

It's been tough..it is tough..like I said, some days I'm bone tired..I haven't even had real food today..just 2 macadamia nut cookies, coffee and a handful of chips!

( healthy fare..yum..lol) but too tired to even cut up the chicken I got at the supermarket..today I worked on my Valentine's Day Special..a box of chocolates that I posted in the Naughty place..lol

and the 2 cakes that are being picked up tomorrow.

So..I'm sweating it because I dont have any orders for Saturday and Sunday.

Then..I get calls at the last minute and because the 1st of the month gets here sooner than I want it to, I start to take those last minute orders that REALLY beat me up!!

If I have my Meringue Icing already done..I can get a cake from oven to box in about 3 hours...and sometimes I'm working on a few of them at a time...while the phone is ringing, the people are asking me to make their coffee...and I'm dealing with my appointments...


Where IS that darn bag of chips.!??? lol

christeena Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 3:34am

Oh, RB, if I could come to Miami, I'd be so willing to have you sit in a chair and direct me to do your job (without pay)so that you could have a break!! I feel so bad for you that you have to work this hard to grow your business with no rest and relaxation!! Everyone needs time off now and again!!

Janette Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 4:56am

Ohhhhhh icon_surprised.gif

Is someone hinting that if you are not license you are not giving a quality product? Ohhhhhh icon_surprised.gif

Naughty, naughty icon_razz.gif

littlecake Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 5:15am

about the grease trap........

i was pretty upset about having to get one for my little place...didn't figure i needed it....and by the time they built it and installed it i think it was close to 700 bucks...anyhow....

well the grease trap was only connected to the triple sink...thats all that was required.

so get this, over time the pipes under the shop connected to just my hand sink were so compacted with solid grease it took the rooto router man 30 minutes to grind it out....it turns into something solid like soap....the mop sink was completely blocked too.

so really its for your protection...

littlecake Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 5:23am

((((risque)))) i feel your pain...i've had 2 of the slowest months in 5 years...i was in the red for the first time in december...

it started picking up a bit...then an ice storm hit...i only did 200.00 in business in 2 weeks!

i went thru my savings keeping the doors open....

when the ice finally melted i went over to check on the place i'm remodeling...looters came and stole all my tools.

then

the next day...i get a call from the tax man saying he wants to talk to me....urgh!

anyhow...

i just wanted to share that usually for me...it really starts picking up in feb.....then from march till the end of summer i usually am so swamped i gotta turn em down.

WE JUST GOTTA MAKE IT THRU JANUARY!

Janette Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 5:30am

littlecake,

that just made me sick that someone would do a thing like that. Nothing like kicking someone while they are down.

I'm sending good wishes your way.

RisqueBusiness Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 5:48am

OMG LittleCake that soooooooooooo sucks! Working your butt off and then having someone just feel entittled to what you worked so hard for..UGH!!!!!

( screaming out loud!!!)

Well...there are not cakes for this weekend, but..I COULD make cookies for the museum and see what happens...and I have a class next week..Judging a wedding show on the 28th..doing an Art show on the 2nd.

and people are starting to book their cakes and PAY them WEEKS ahead ..so I can't complain too much!

lol...I just have to keep grinding them out..!

koolaidstains Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 6:29am

You know what I find interesting is all these shows on food network about all these up and coming food businesses. And almost all of them started out of their homes. But, never is there a mention of it not being legal.

I didn't even realize it wasn't legal until I came to CC. That in no way is an excuse, just an observation. I rarely sell cakes anymore. I upped my price when I realized it wasn't worth my time for what I was charging. I'm a wilton instructor now, which I love because I can do what I love and not worry about the laws of selling cakes. I might still make the occasional cake for someone, but I don't plan on trying to make it a business any time soon. If I ever did want to get into cake decorating as a business I seriously doubt I would start out of my home to try and make enough money to become legal, because that might take forever LOL.

I guess it's the luck of the draw where you live and what the laws are. You win some and you lose some. We picked up and moved when I was pregnant with #4 and my oldest was only 5. Hubby had a job that required a lot of travel and we decided it was not what we wanted for our family. It took a year to find something that wasn't on the east or west coast (too expensive) and here in Indianapolis is where we ended up. So while we are a far way away from Texas which we LOVED, we ended up with a short commute to work, a great school system, and a house with a big yard. But, we got plenty of things we don't like too and getting legal in Indiana is just one of them.

jmt1714 Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 1:50pm

i get all the arguments about why people don't htink homebakers should be in business - but being a home baker doesn't mean you are unregulated in those states that allow home bakers to work legally. The fact that even one state allows home bakers to work and sell these items tells me there is more going on that simple concern over hygiene and such.

berryblondeboys Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 2:00pm

That's what I was getting at in my initial post - I think people in food business push the laws to try to force the home bakers out of business - squeeze out the competition....

Yes, hygiene is important, but you can accomplish this in so many ways! Push out the home bakers, try to make it very difficult for new businesses to start up. Once you are big and mighty, you forget how you had to struggle to get there too....

and it's not just the food industry, but ALL business, everyone is self-serving and looking out for their best interests... I understand it, but it's too bad that there isn't more balances and checks in the system.

melissa

tonyah Posted 26 Jan 2007 , 2:35pm

In our county it's not just homebakers. We make everybody do the same thing. You can't BBQ at home and sell it - you can't set up a grill at the races and sell, or make ice cream. It's not just being after homebakers (honestly it's easier to bake and sell illegally than anything else) but we try to make everybody do the same stuff - temporary food vendors have to have 3 comp sink and hand sink, hot water the works.

I agree to an extent that it should be easier if you're not dealing with perishable fillings and such but it just snowballs from there. I can't tell you how many times we tell a convenience store owner they can sell prepackaged stuff with no license and then you stop to get a coke and there sits hotdogs and biscuits.

Oh and that's how a lot of people get turned in - we have someone ask about what they need to do and then they start listing off names when they find out how much they have to do.

Quote by @%username% on %date%

%body%