Sooo, Undercutting Doesn't Hurt The Industry, Huh?

Business By LoveMeSomeCake615 Updated 30 May 2014 , 6:00am by SystemMod1

BeesKnees578 Posted 4 Mar 2014 , 11:37pm
post #91 of 110

Quote:

Originally Posted by -K8memphis 
 

 

has not been exclusive since the 70's and yes that's exactly the problem


HAHA  Good to know....I was born in the '70s!

BeesKnees578 Posted 4 Mar 2014 , 11:46pm
post #92 of 110

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzybug78 

I had one of those quotes tonight. It really got my hackles up.

I get a fb message with a photo asking 'how much for this for my boyfriend's 20th ?' No hello, no sign off and the age all make me think this is going to be a waste of time. I duly quote anyway and send it off. Computer bings a few minutes later to say she's replied. I finish what I'm doing then check messages. 'Way too expensive, lol'. OK, bit rude but had worse. I start to send a 'thanks anyway' type reply when another message comes in. '£85 for a birthday cake, I don't think so, that's a ridiculous price'. So now she's sent her slightly rude message, left it 10 minutes and thought she hadn't made her point enough, so sent a ruder one. I hit send on my polite reply anyway, then a few seconds later get 'I've got someone who's doing it for £30'

At this point I'm thoroughly p****D off. She's now essentially told me 3 times that I'm trying to diddle her. I replied simply saying that it would cost me over £20 in ingredients alone, plus several hours work including shopping, prep, baking, etc etc, and that as I am running a business I can't afford to work for free. And that I hoped her cake was lovely. I was lying on the last bit - I did say it, but clearly I hope it's cack icon_smile.gif

The trouble is, as has been pointed out, she will get some awful bodged cake and think it's great. This is why I am moving away from novelty /birthday cakes and concentrating on wedding cakes, as people are more willing to accept that you have to pay for quality.

That whole thing about people thinking we put up prices when we see the word 'wedding'? Personally I think it's the other way around - if we don't put 'wedding' in front of the word 'cake', people think we should be doing them for nothing. I don't charge any more for wedding cakes, but equally I won't charge less for the same design made as a birthday /anniversary etc cake!

Really, this business would be so much easier without having to deal with customers!

Ps- I spent some time searching for the photo she'd given me after this happened. Found the site, and it was up for £90. This tells me that a) my pricing is OK and b) she's a git icon_biggrin.gif


Yes...badgering to see if she can make you feel bad and lower your prices, I'm guessing...

Lizzybug78 Posted 5 Mar 2014 , 12:06am
post #93 of 110

A

Original message sent by BeesKnees578

Yes...badgering to see if she can make you feel bad and lower your prices, I'm guessing...

Well she managed the first bit but not the second, so I'll consider that a 50% win to me :-)

LoveMeSomeCake615 Posted 5 Mar 2014 , 2:06am
post #94 of 110

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzybug78 
 'Way too expensive, lol'. OK, bit rude but had worse. I start to send a 'thanks anyway' type reply when another message comes in. '£85 for a birthday cake, I don't think so, that's a ridiculous price'. So now she's sent her slightly rude message, left it 10 minutes and thought she hadn't made her point enough, so sent a ruder one. I hit send on my polite reply anyway, then a few seconds later get 'I've got someone who's doing it for £30'

This is pretty much exactly what the lady I dealt with said in response (the one whose inquiry inspired this thread). It's fine for someone to say we're too expensive (heard that so many times I am waaay over it), but she was just very rude about it. It's really hard for me to stay nice and professional (but I did anyway!) when someone is basically accusing me of being greedy/insane/price gouging etc. 

embersmom Posted 5 Mar 2014 , 9:29am
post #95 of 110

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeesKnees578 
 Maybe that's the problem...it's not an exclusive club anymore....
 

Or as my husband says, "You guys used to be considered artists because not everyone could do what you do.  Fondant, Wilton, and the internet changed all that and now you guys are upset that now everybody can do what you've been doing."

 

As you can tell he's used to me bouncing around names as well as my general b*tching :grin:

 

Yeah, that's exactly it. The "specialness" is gone.  And, as someone else mentioned, it's not just cakes -- it's nearly everything that was once considered a craft that only a select few could do well.

Lizzybug78 Posted 5 Mar 2014 , 9:44am
post #96 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by embersmom 
 

Or as my husband says, "You guys used to be considered artists because not everyone could do what you do.  Fondant, Wilton, and the internet changed all that and now you guys are upset that now everybody can do what you've been doing."

 

As you can tell he's used to me bouncing around names as well as my general b*tching :grin:

 

Yeah, that's exactly it. The "specialness" is gone.  And, as someone else mentioned, it's not just cakes -- it's nearly everything that was once considered a craft that only a select few could do well.

Not sure I agree with that bit. Of course everyone can cover a cake with fondant/buttercream. It's not rocket science. I'm also sure that a good proportion of people could knock up a sugar rose etc. Also not rocket science. The thing is, their covering will be lumpy, folded, cracked etc. Ours will not. Their rose will look like a cabbage. Ours will have people discussing whether it's real or not. I'm not upset that other people can do that. I'm upset that they do it to a frequently shocking poor standard, sell it at 1/3 the price of a well executed cake and thus teach everyone that sub-standard quality for low low prices is normal.

 

People who turn out a beautifully executed cake are still in my eyes artists (like the other caker at a wedding fair I did last weekend - just awesome). People who turn out toot are not, and they certainly can't do what a talented decorator can.

 

Btw, my hubby is used to my b*tching too. He leaves the room for safer ground :grin: 

cazza1 Posted 5 Mar 2014 , 11:09am
post #97 of 110

Too many people on here make the assumption that a cheap cake is likely to be a cake wreck.  These are never going to undermine the market. What wrecks the market is the good to exceptionally good cakes that are being undercharged for and there are plenty of them out there.

LoveMeSomeCake615 Posted 5 Mar 2014 , 1:43pm
post #98 of 110

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzybug78 
 

Not sure I agree with that bit. Of course everyone can cover a cake with fondant/buttercream. It's not rocket science. I'm also sure that a good proportion of people could knock up a sugar rose etc. Also not rocket science. The thing is, their covering will be lumpy, folded, cracked etc. Ours will not. Their rose will look like a cabbage. Ours will have people discussing whether it's real or not. I'm not upset that other people can do that. I'm upset that they do it to a frequently shocking poor standard, sell it at 1/3 the price of a well executed cake and thus teach everyone that sub-standard quality for low low prices is normal.

Yes.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by cazza1 
 

Too many people on here make the assumption that a cheap cake is likely to be a cake wreck.  These are never going to undermine the market. What wrecks the market is the good to exceptionally good cakes that are being undercharged for and there are plenty of them out there.

Also yes.

embersmom Posted 5 Mar 2014 , 10:49pm
post #99 of 110

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzybug78 
 

I'm upset that they do it to a frequently shocking poor standard, sell it at 1/3 the price of a well executed cake and thus teach everyone that sub-standard quality for low low prices is normal.

 

That too :nodding:  I think the point my husband is trying to make is that if it weren't for Wilton, the internet, etc., people wouldn't know the ins and outs of cake decorating; therefore, it would be out of their sphere of knowledge -- hence the "exclusivity" of it.

 

People who turn out a beautifully executed cake are still in my eyes artists (like the other caker at a wedding fair I did last weekend - just awesome). People who turn out toot are not, and they certainly can't do what a talented decorator can.

 

Oh, I agree.  There are cakes out there I wouldn't ever want to attempt, but the artistry involved is utterly breathtaking, so much so that I'd be afraid to cut into it, never mind eat it!

 

Btw, my hubby is used to my b*tching too. He leaves the room for safer ground :grin: 

 

LOL, so does mine!

MBalaska Posted 5 Mar 2014 , 11:58pm
post #100 of 110

The early Egyptians had honey cakes, and the ancient Vikings, Asians, Europeans  etc.

Home bakers have had cake and icing recipes for hundred of years.  hundreds.

this is just one more stage of evolution in the cake history, it too shall pass onto something else in the future.

the sugar 3D printer is a testament to what can come next in your home.

http://singularityhub.com/2014/01/13/3d-systems-and-sugar-lab-bring-cheftjet-3d-sugar-printer-to-ces/

..........and somebody will be angry about that.

peppercorns Posted 30 May 2014 , 2:31am
post #101 of 110

A

Original message sent by cazza1

Unfortunately there are two factors working here. 

The first is the home baker who really has no business sense and who thinks that if they cover their costs and make a little bit extra then they are in front.  They do not put value on their time as they either do it in their spare time or are not working anyway and any extra money is a bonus (and if you are short of cash and unable to get a job for whatever reason every little bit can help if you are on a limited income).  Or they see it as a wonderful pass time and are happy to just cover their cost with a little bit extra to buy more cutters etc. and so support their hobby. I'm one of the home bakers, and I totally agree with you, I baked a cake for a friends birthday years back, and everyone at work love the carrot cake I baked, so now everyone wants me to bake them carrot cake. I didn't accept any of the offers, it's a hobby, and I spend my my own money to buy whatever new cutter is in the market, now I'm retired, I am now heavily immersed into my hobby, spending thousands of dollars to further improve my skill, bought skill books from famous authors, in and out of the country. But I don't bake for anyone except myself, husband and two grandchildren. I cannot see myself having a cake, or cupcake, or cookie baked by others because now I have the knowledge and skill to splurge on any dessert I fancy for the day.

The second factor is Joe Blow the public.  They really have no idea and if they first see or hear about the type of bakers above they take that to be the norm.  Or they think that because you are doing it from home that it should be cheap.  This applies to all things made from home, not just cake.  And they think that you are doing it for your own enjoyment and so shouldn't charge for your time.  I once had a lady ask me if I would make her a Hardanger mat (A type of embroidery) after seeing one I had made.  She thought it would be worth about $50 when I queried how much she would pay,  chuckling to myself.  She had no idea that it had taken me about 100 hours to make.  People just have no idea of the time invested in any of these things and need educating.

MimiFix Posted 30 May 2014 , 2:48am
post #102 of 110

peppercorns, it would help us if you separated your response from the post you are quoting.

peppercorns Posted 30 May 2014 , 4:13am
post #103 of 110

A

Original message sent by MimiFix

peppercorns, it would help us if you separated your response from the post you are quoting.

ah ha! I knew it, I'm glad you took time to read my post, you see I know you're one of those that were p.od because I give horrible postings. To you all not to worry, my mistake, but be rest assured, I do not ever undercut any bakers, oh maybe I did, last November i was invited to a charity event and I baked three hundred choc cupcakes with raspberry / chamburg laced fillings and covered with ganache spent $500 for that event and all proceeds were given to that charity. Should I have ordered these cupcakes from the many bakers around town? I do not know anymore.

/

thecakewitch Posted 30 May 2014 , 4:31am
post #104 of 110

AWhat's chamburg?

enga Posted 30 May 2014 , 4:39am
post #105 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecakewitch 

What's chamburg?
Chambord liqueur, raspberry flavored liqueur.
thecakewitch Posted 30 May 2014 , 5:05am
post #106 of 110

A

Original message sent by enga

I know Chambord but chamburg is alien to me.

peppercorns Posted 30 May 2014 , 5:12am
post #107 of 110

A

Original message sent by enga

Enga thanks for the spelling I'm looking at the bottle now, I only used half of it last November, I think I should take a few shots for a nightcap. It's good with fresh raspberry jam .

enga Posted 30 May 2014 , 5:13am
post #108 of 110

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecakewitch 
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by enga 
 

I know Chambord but chamburg is alien to me.

I think she might have misspelled it.

enga Posted 30 May 2014 , 5:17am
post #109 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by peppercorns 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by enga 
 
Enga thanks for the spelling I'm looking at the bottle now, I only used half of it last November, I think I should take a few shots for a nightcap. It's good with fresh raspberry jam .

Sounds good I wish I could join you, lol. I better get myself off to bed too. It's been nice chatting with you, I hope you have a nice evening and a pleasant tomorrow!

SystemMod1 Posted 30 May 2014 , 6:00am
post #110 of 110

This thread has run its course.  Thank you for participating.

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