I never realized....EVER

Business By Cakespirations Updated 5 Feb 2014 , 6:38pm by Cakespirations

shanter Posted 26 Jan 2014 , 3:20am
post #32 of 75

Simple in Washington State. You go to the web site of the state Department of Revenue and file a complaint on line. Other states that collect sales tax are probably similar. And there's always the IRS for income taxes.

enga Posted 26 Jan 2014 , 3:59am
post #33 of 75


Originally Posted by Stitches 

"The issues I have with illegal bakers is them not 'paying to play' like everyone else does. They don't pay sales tax or income tax on their earnings. They don't support/stimulate the economy by creating jobs, leasing property, buying equipment, etc... MANY, many industries have "barriers" of start-up costs much higher than food businesses. The food business entry costs are very low compared to other industries.


There are other things people can do to make money that aren't illegal. Do you understand those issues enga? Do you really think it's o.k. for some people to cheat?"

I know that illegal bakers don't do any thing to support/stimulate the economy by creating jobs, leasing property, buying equipment, etc... Legal home bakers do though and I'm not condoning illegal behavior. Yes, I UNDERSTAND the issues Stiches. I'm talking about moms who have a talent and being able to use that talent to bring in extra money under the CFLs. The industry was saturated before this.  What I do hear are certain people putting most home bakers who do operate under the laws legally in the same category as illegals, under cutters, and people practicing poor hygiene that ARE ruining the market.


“I did understand her k8 and that's what would drive me to turning someone in. I get sick and tired of everyone cheating on everything. It hurts everyone! It raises the costs for the people who do pay for things in life.” 

“I think people that will cheat on a big issue (being legal) will cheat on plenty of other big issues and it cumulatively really hurts our society. Those types of people never want to accept responsibility for their own actions and always have a personal excuse why they are the exception to life's rules.”


Then let that be the reason why you will turn people in.


“Act responsibly.... people do get sick and die from food. Be a licensed business and pay taxes just like everyone else, have insurance, have your food handlers permit, etc... stop hiding behind excuses.”


I have acted responsibly. I earned a degree, saved my money, bought my equipment, had a licensed facility, paid my taxes, had insurance and etc. Before that did, I sell cookies and baked goods at farmer markets and fairs? Yes I did, I thought that all I needed was a sellers permit and to pay the taxes on what I sold. You live and you learn. I’ve learned from my mistakes.


 Maybe they don’t know that they are breaking the law, maybe they do.  Breaking the law is breaking the law, so be all means, turn them in if that makes you feel better. I would rather use my time educating people.






I personally wouldn't report anyone for the sole reason in too busy. Ever been on hold with DHEC?!!

However I'm am floored that someone would condone ANY illegal activity. Sure, we empathize with struggles or reasons. There is simply no excuse for breaking the law.

An example: oh I know she sells crack cocaine, but that's only because it's so hard to become a pharmacist. Besides, it costs so much to lease the space for a drugstore. She has children to feed and times are tough.

I know that is a huge exaggeration. I picked it to prove a point.

If you can't operate legally, wait until you can!”


Wow, what an unusual example to use. What the heck does crack cocaine have to do with being a Pharmacist (which takes 8 years to become by the way)? Pharmacist don’t usually lease drug stores, they are hired by drug stores.  They too have felt the brunt of the big box stores and pharmacy chains. Times ARE tough but I don’t think they are going to be giving out 5 to 10 year sentences for selling cakes illegally. DD, you would be surprised at what some mothers are forced to do to feed their children and dealing drugs is the least of them.  Selling a cake illegally would probably be a Godsend.





I could care less about the business end of illegals in regards to how it affects my business. I have reported people, and will continue to do so.

Are they competition for me? no, we have a totally different market.

Are they driving prices down? Probably, but getting a CFL probably isn't going to change that.


I care about the fact that they are following NO guidelines, they have not been held up to any standards of health or hygiene, they haven't taken food safety or handling.


If more people voice that fact maybe your constituents would make it a requirement of the CFLs.


I've reported 3 local 'bakers' for selling baked goods, because they have indoor cats.

That is revolting and irresponsible.


I would never have pets around food let alone any baked goods. It boggles my mind how anyone would have pets in their kitchen even if they don’t sell food. 


I can't believe this is even a topic to be honest. It's a law. The sense of entitlement and 'special snowflake' mentality these days ticks me off. You don't get to circumvent laws without repercussion.


"The sense of entitlement and 'special snowflake' mentality these days"


My sentiments exactly.

nancylee61 Posted 26 Jan 2014 , 4:08am
post #34 of 75

You can't bake in your house and have cats? I never thought of that. Interesting. I have gotten to be 52 years old and have cooked and baked for about 40 of those years with animals in my house. They don't go on the counters, and I have never had a dog or cat hair in my food. I have, however, had lots of human hair, both at home and in many restaurants, those legally licensed places? Yup, got hair in my food. Many times. 


enga Posted 26 Jan 2014 , 4:18am
post #35 of 75

If you want a pet walking around your house and leaving a litter box trail all over it, that's your prerogative. If you cant clean up your own bodily waste, you cant live in my house. I don't hate animals, I just don't want them in my house.


My kids loved their pets and cleaned up behind them. They are adults now. This is my personal choice not to have pets. I don't have time for them nor do I want to clean up behind them.

nancylee61 Posted 26 Jan 2014 , 4:29am
post #36 of 75

My cats are clean, and my dogs don't go on the counters. Neither do the cats. I don't want this to turn into a pet bashing conversation, so let's just say that as long as the animals aren't on the kitchen counters, I don't care if my baker has pets. People are a lot more gross than animals, IMHO!!!

nancylee61 Posted 26 Jan 2014 , 5:20am
post #38 of 75

AHi Enga, No problem , I'm not upset. Thanks for explaining! Nancy

scrumdiddlycakes Posted 26 Jan 2014 , 7:23am
post #40 of 75

I have worked with animals since I was 18, hundreds of which were cats, and there is no such thing as a 'clean' cat. I love cats, don't get me wrong, but they shed and have dander. Not to mention you have no way of knowing where they are when you are gone, and those cute little feet like to stand in feces, urine and litter.
I'm talking about selling cakes made in a kitchen that cats have access to. Hair and dander float, even if a cat has never once stepped foot on that counter.
Even if you have no personal issue with it, it is illegal. Keep in mind, I am talking about selling, not cooking for your own family.



Enga, I am confused. I cannot tell if you are upset about illegal bakers or CFL bakers? This most definitely IS a requirement of CFLs, at least any that I have heard of.

enga Posted 26 Jan 2014 , 9:55am
post #41 of 75

"I care about the fact that they are following NO guidelines, they have not been held up to any standards of health or hygiene, they haven't taken food safety or handling."


This is not my post, the bold print was my reply to it.


I was upset about CFL bakers being shown in a bad light. While I don't condone illegal bakers, I can understand why some of them do it. It's a sad argument really because we are all going to hell in a hand basket with this economy anyway.


We are all struggling on some level even if you don't admit it. I don't care what field you are in. Most of us are being underpaid, overworked and out sourced. Corporations rely on the fact that there is always someone who will do it cheaper, faster, (maybe not) better for less pay. You want to change it? Good luck with that.


 I personally find it terrible that these schools, colleges and Universities take the money to crank out graduates with the promise of jobs in their field when there really aren't any. A perfect case of supply exceeding demand. Now I wish that I hadn't even gone back to school to become a pastry chef. The jobs in this field are scarce and hard to come by because many chefs are making or having their kitchen staff make their own desserts.


I must say, CFLs are looking better and better to me. I shouldn't have tried to open a business, kept my savings, took my Bakery Production diploma and moved to Iowa. Happily baking to my hearts content. 

nancylee61 Posted 26 Jan 2014 , 10:32am
post #42 of 75

AAs a mother of three kids with close to 50k in college loans, I say you are 100% correct. Yes, people may be doing things illegally. No, I personally would not report them. Karma, and all that. It will catch up.to them eventually.

I'm new at doing this for $$, but am renting a commercial kitchen so as,to be legal. I don't want people reporting me. Nancy

crabilld Posted 26 Jan 2014 , 11:55am
post #44 of 75

Okay, this is a pretty interesting thread that's developed here, and mostly due to things I wrote, so I feel I should respond at least to some degree.


First off, I really can understand the other point of view. When I started cottagefoods.org, I wouldn't have written something about giving illegals the benefit of the doubt. I mean, if anything, the site -- a website dedicated to informing people about the legal cottage food industry -- would be more likely to recommend that illegal bakers be reported.


All I can say is that my comments on the site, and my change of perspective, are the result of talking to hundreds of people in the industry. Too often I see people try to take other people down because they feel some sense of justification to do so. Sometimes it is justified, but sometimes it's just ego-driven. And is this really changing anything? Usually not. Talking directly to the individual and making them more aware seems to be the most effective.


 Also, saying that you can try to turn them in, but most health inspectors are overworked, and probably won't do anything about it . . .  what kind of b.s. is that?


It is a fact that many state governments have been cutting health dept employees in the past few years, and it is also a fact that some depts are no longer inspecting all of the food facilities in their area at the rate they are supposed to. Many of them are anti cottage food simply because they don't feel they have the resources to handle the extra work. I'm not saying all health depts are this way, but I do want to prepare people if they get frustrated dealing with their health dept -- a very common occurrence!


Many people do feel they are being "forced under the table", regardless of whether or not this feeling is justified. This is especially true of stay-at-home moms, where working in a commercial kitchen is not an option for them.


By the way, if you all have any suggestions for what should be written on that FAQ page, I'm open to that. It's just something I wrote off the top of my head and could certainly use improvement. I've listed some of the reasons above for why I wrote what I wrote, but I know I still have a lot to learn.


And finally, to MimiFix: I considered putting my name on the About page (a page I haven't really designed yet). I built the site and nobody else is sponsoring it. I'd like to see the site be supported by the community (not just me), so I decided to leave my name out of it. I don't really need credit but maybe it should be on there. The only agenda for the site is to expand the online resources for this industry.

nancylee61 Posted 26 Jan 2014 , 12:17pm
post #45 of 75

AIn NY state, the Ag and Markets handles place like bakeries. It is $400 to apply. About two years ago, I had a shop and was considering baking in it, inspector came in to tell me what I would need. BTW, home bakers, even if inspected, , cant put out anything that needs refrigeration, so,its pretty useless.

After our discussion, he told me what other places he is in charge of. One of them is the filthiest meat store and deli in upstate NY near my town. I laughed to myself at that point about health inspections. This place has floors that haven't been washed in months, dirty counters, soups servers that are cruddy, I don't go,there anymore because it is so dirty. The USDA handles the meat part and that looks filthy too. This is a huge business - they have a fabulously successful retail store and wholesale to all the restaurants. After that, I put no faith in health inspections. Nancy

DeliciousDesserts Posted 26 Jan 2014 , 1:55pm
post #46 of 75

AIt was an exaggerated example to make a point. My niece is a pharmacist so I'm well aware. While most pharmacists work for major corporations, some own thier own shop.

I specifically chose cocaine because I am very well aware of some of the drastic measures parents take in difficult times. That's the point!!!! Just because you really need the money doesn't negate the fact it's illegal.

Just to clarify any misunderstanding, I am a CFL business. I bake from my home.

I do not undercut. I'll absolutely do my best to educate those who do CFL, small commercial kitchen, and major companies alike!

liz at sugar Posted 26 Jan 2014 , 1:58pm
post #47 of 75


Enga - I am not sure where you live, but if you have a degree as a pastry chef, I know there are jobs out there - at hotels, resorts, country clubs just to name a few venues.  But you may have to move to where those type of places are, if you happen to live in a rural area.  I'm not saying there are tons of them, but they do exist.


The city I live in has a very successful culinary arts program.  It is at our local community college, but somehow it has gained such notoriety, that it has a waiting list and selective admission process, and runs about $20,000 for tuition.  Most of the students are young with stars in their eyes, and they are discouraged from getting a job in a restaurant while they are in school.  If they saw behind the "curtain" they might decide that being a "chef"  (cooking on the line in a restaurant) isn't all that it is cracked up to be.


And about making desserts with existing kitchen staff:  I can guarantee you that most restaurants are just buying ready made desserts from their purveyors.  It is the rare, independent hotel/restaurant/resort that isn't just buying something off the truck, painting the plate, and serving it as if they had made it in house.  The independents are where you could find that pastry chef job. :)



-K8memphis Posted 26 Jan 2014 , 2:51pm
post #49 of 75

yes there are jobs out there for those with culinary degrees but they are the same jobs one can aspire to without a degree--there is no difference in pay for those with degrees-- there's no exclusivity-- look at a teaching degree for example--without one you can teach sunday school or something like that maybe teach in a daycare--but with it doors open, opportunities and salaries rise--


the only way to make salary/benefit/promotion increases as a chef is to work more hours--because there are thousands of immigrants ready and waiting to do your job faster, often more efficient and for low wages--simple supply and demand--


and you and i have a different point of view liz, with all respect, i think it is incredibly self serving of the schools to not want future grads to get in the industry now--for one they will need the speed and they need to realize there is not a financial gain to attending school--


sure it helps with confidence and some networking but it is ass whooping work--then have to pay off a school bill making the same money available to non-degreed? ouch 


to me, the answer is to balance the front and back of the house financially--spread those tips around especially in the places where wait staff can garner 60-80k--but...my (son) chef got in a different industry all together so he could have a life--and pay the school bill...

Stitches Posted 26 Jan 2014 , 5:31pm
post #51 of 75

Another truth not mentioned by culinary schools is the age and *** discrimination that's prevalent in the food industry. I worked in professional kitchens for 20* years and I was always the only female in the kitchen. Sometimes they'd hire a young Spanish female but only to do cleaning, not food prep. It isn't a friendly atmosphere for females....as in many male chefs don't like to hire females and they don't like to promote them either.


The second biggest thing they didn't tell you in culinary school enga is that no one hires older women (older than their 20's). A 35 year old is OLD by kitchen standards. By the time your 50 they don't even hire men in kitchens.


I don't care to discuss the whys and get into a lot of details about this, but I assure you I know what I'm talking about from experience. Yes, there are exceptions............but that those are Exceptions not the norm.

enga Posted 26 Jan 2014 , 10:37pm
post #54 of 75

Add that to the fact that I live in a city that is so segregated it ranked number 1 in the nation. I worked twice as hard for my degree because of my ***, age and race. I didn't expect it to be like that in the culinary field. Being a meat wrapper kinda toughened my skin but it was nothing compared to the kind of discrimination I would  face in the culinary world.


After working as a Meat wrapper, CNA, Pharmacy Tech, Health Unit Coordinator, and a Health Food store kitchen bake off clerk/meat wrapper/wellness clerk and still being unhappy, I asked myself, what kind of job would you love to do for the rest of your life? Baking won hands down. So that was the field I chose to go back to school for. Oh what a dumb dumb chicken little........ SMDH. Do I have any regrets? Yeah, some but for the most part it was a great learning experience and a lot of it had nothing to do with baking or pastry arts. Would I recommend anyone to go into the field? No.

Godot Posted 26 Jan 2014 , 11:00pm
post #55 of 75

AWhat - do you expect a pity party?

We've all had it hard for some reason or another.

soldiernurse Posted 27 Jan 2014 , 12:35am
post #57 of 75

AI got the SAME message too..from my last thread..will the Mod ban her?

candyandcakeco Posted 27 Jan 2014 , 3:44am
post #58 of 75

I know exactly what you mean. I  studied for 5 years, and used to teach cake decorating... and I see tons of people selling cakes, everyone thinks making a cake is so easy and that anyone can do it. I find my self competing with people that just do it for the fun I guess.... its outrageous how everyone thinks they can beat a pro. its so aggravating... but like you said, they will just get what they payed for: unprofessional, maybe unsanitary results. Don't stoop down to their level, obviously the people who support you and recommend you, know how to tell the difference! Keep on going, and don't sell your knowledge short. :)

scrumdiddlycakes Posted 27 Jan 2014 , 7:44am
post #60 of 75

Culinary degrees are the new journalism degrees. You go in all starry eyed, and 5 years later you realized you screwed yourself.

I was lucky, I had one hell of a ballsy chef for a mother, spoke more than one language, and had a few connections. Just enough to get me into an unpaid position under an amazing pastry chef as a first job after graduating pastry school.
I thought I knew what I was getting into, but being a girl in a masculine French kitchen was unreal. I loved working in a proper kitchen, I miss it like crazy, but man alive it was wild.
I once had a pot of hot caramel thrown at me, thank God for chef's coats.
That was a *job* that having a really good connection got me. Most end up in minimum wage bakeries, or Red Robin's as line cooks, if they are lucky. The majority of the people I graduated with are in totally different lines of work.


Pastry school promises are on par with those cartoons of army recruiters telling teenagers they will make big bucks and travel the world.

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