Buying A Cake Is About The Experience, Really!
Lounge By Stitches Updated 22 Jan 2014 , 3:09am by MommyMommy
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Wow. I just fell off my chair. No contract!!!!! I could cry.
Sorry, can't help it, I have to address this contract issue. Part of being a professional (who clients can trust) is acting professionally. The contract does more than cover your ass. It ensures that everyone knows exactly what is expected. What if I am thinking they want the lace design we first discussed but they changed their minds and want the first design?! Or they decided they want a different flavor!
Lack of a contract does not mean there is no written communication. A complete quote, down to the detail, listing everything out with sketch attached does everything that you listed above - covers your ass, ensures everyone knows exactly what is expected. A check written out for the percentage specified in the quote - acknowledges that the customer agrees with everything on the quote, and honestly is what I accepted as their written agreement to place the order.
No contract doesn't mean a quickie sketch on the back of a used envelope - in a city like the one where I live, if someone showed up with a CONTRACT, complete with small print and legalese, they simply wouldn't be trusted. It may not be that way everywhere, but I live in a small, old school kind of town. Agreements are made with a handshake, and people keep their word.
Playing devil's advocate, how many contracts have you signed for retail purchases in the past year? Excluding credit card receipts? I haven't signed any.
Have I written a deposit check? Yes. Have I signed for delivery? Yes. But a full out contract - no.
Liz
Ahhh ok. Now I understand. Semantics.
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Playing devil's advocate, how many contracts have you signed for retail purchases in the past year? Excluding credit card receipts? I haven't signed any.
Have I written a deposit check? Yes. Have I signed for delivery? Yes. But a full out contract - no.
Liz
No money leaves my hand unless some form of reciept (including description of what I am buying) goes in the other hand. When I paid $36 to have my pants altered, I got a claim ticket which specified exactly what was to be done. No contract (or some type of written agreement even on toilet paper) no deposit.
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No money leaves my hand unless some form of reciept (including description of what I am buying) goes in the other hand. When I paid $36 to have my pants altered, I got a claim ticket which specified exactly what was to be done. No contract (or some type of written agreement even on toilet paper) no deposit.
Yes, I always get a receipt, too.
This same subject got debated in my last career, and I think from the seller's point of view, you are trying to portray to clients a professional, polished image. You want to show you are detail oriented and you are trustworthy, but you don't ever want to cross the line into "I don't trust you to keep up your end of the bargain, so please sign at the X". That is where some potential customers get uneasy.
Are all these semantics just trickery, or imagery? Yes, somewhat. Because you bet I want my ass covered when I've just ordered thousands of dollars worth of product to work on someone's project. But as a service provider, you never want to use words like "contract" unless it has gone bad and you are in front of Judge Judy. Up to that point, you are being sweet, and detail oriented, and making sure all the i's are dotted and the t's crossed regarding their order. Now I never ended up in that position, but I had all my paperwork in order in case it did ever come to that. Technically that paper trail is a contract, but I would never refer to it that way to a customer.
Liz
AWe also had no contracts unless the order was a large one (typically $200+). Part of the communication I had with each customer was that their order was not finalized until I sent them an invoice detailing what they were getting, when, where, and for how much. Upon pickup or delivery, every customer received a hard copy of their invoice with our business cards attached, and they signed a second hard copy that I kept.
For small orders no payment was due until the cake was picked up or delivered, mirroring the experience they would get if they picked up a cake at a regular storefront bakery. Larger orders required both a deposit and a contract.
AI contract every order, but the average order is a couple hundred dollar or more job. Now, I also sell 50-70-90$ dessert cakes but those are paypallled and not delivered, and not customized. Not much to legalese the living lights out of.
But the real projects get a proper contract. There's a few conditions listed, the basic everyday ones, and that's about it. I'm not swindling anyone, and neither are the people coming to me looking to swindle me.
ASo much more to "you need to raise your prices"...there's a confident and enthusiastic attitude and higher level of service all around that goes with it.
So much easier to nail these things down before one goes into business. Then you were always the luxury provider.
you dialed this down from crying over comrades without contracts to a receipt being enough--ok ;)
but i have no clauses to initial about what happens "IF" -- it's just tmi --
i mean like at the store when they ask "paper or plastic" i say "surprise me" i just don't care--it's hard enough to get through all the questions on the credit card machine--credit or debit--you want cash back--you want to pay the full amount on this card -- what is your zip code--do you have a preferred member card--you want to donate to blablabla--is this amount ok? i say, not really is there some room to negotiate??? hahaha
just say no to clauses that have to be initialed
especially 'what if' ones
AI think if the contract you're using is 20 pages long, and has conditions regarding colors not looking right under certain light, and other ridiculousness, cause it exists, and plenty of those nonsense contracts circulate around here. Anyways, if you're pulling those out on your people, I would expect to be balked at as well.Possibly even laughed at.
A
Original message sent by -K8memphis
but i have no clauses to initial about what happens "IF" -- it's just tmi --
If you see a "what if" clause in someone's contract, it's likely because they (or whoever they copied the contract from) encountered that exact situation and were at a legal disadvantage because they did not disclaim any bad stuff that could arise from said situation.
AIf someone is against having a handy packet of material to take home for those cutesy little planning binders, that has a date of final payment listed, the scheme of their design, the details regarding flavors, time and location for delivery, you know, important shtuffs...Iddon't know.
If you see a "what if" clause in someone's contract, it's likely because they (or whoever they copied the contract from) encountered that exact situation and were at a legal disadvantage because they did not disclaim any bad stuff that could arise from said situation.
yes and that's eternally backwards to me and off putting to the nice fresh person who wants to give you money without the dark walk down memory lane--
i just figure if something comes up we'll cross that bridge when we get there--the bridges are very rare
A
Original message sent by -K8memphis
yes and that's eternally backwards to me and off putting to the nice fresh person who wants to give you money without the dark walk down memory lane--
Looking at it another way, having a shorter contract is not much of a competitive advantage, and if the customer runs screaming from the room because of a few unusual liability disclaimers then you are probably better off not having that person as a customer at all.
That said, if you can't explain in a fairly straightforward manner why a specific clause is in your contract, that clause probably shouldn't be in your contract. There's no need for a detailed story, a simple explanation like "this protects you from A due to B, and this protects me from C due to D" is enough if there is a question.
A common one is a natural disaster clause. What happens to the cake and the customer's money if there is a massive earthquake/hurricane/snowstorm/alien invasion on the day of the event and it is not possible to deliver the cake to the venue?
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Originally Posted by liz at sugar
This is where this conversation gets into psychology, and is not really about what you are wearing, or what your house looks like. You need to determine what your target market expects someone that is providing them a luxury product should look like . . .
Have your read the Thomas Stanley books? The Millionaire Next Door, etc.? They are a fantastic look into the phenomenon of "big hat, no cattle" - looking like you are wealthy, but are really in the hole. Maybe some of your customers who are dressed to the nines are in this category? While many with actual, significant wealth use a different tactic - the millionaire factory owner who doesn't want to rattle his employees so he drives around in a 30 year old beater. People like this aren't eccentric - they are using psychology to their benefit in dealings with customers, employees, service providers, etc.
Sorry to stray off course a little . . . if this area interests you, I will list some other titles that I found invaluable in crafting my "image" as a luxury service provider.
Liz
Liz, that book is a great read. 'The Millionaire Next Door" It really opens your eyes about money. And how most people get rich by not being showy frivolous wasteful fools with their money. I read it when it first came out.
I'll never forget the story about the multimillionaire who went to a big fancy foofoo party and asked for a beer. When asked what his favorite beer was, he said "Bud and FREE."
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A common one is a natural disaster clause. What happens to the cake and the customer's money if there is a massive earthquake/hurricane/snowstorm/alien invasion on the day of the event and it is not possible to deliver the cake to the venue?
yes and thankfully in 40+ years that hasn't happened yet--i am prepared to refund in full if necessary for any cake--if someone wants more than that out of me i'll cross that bridge when i get to it :)
except the alien invasion thing--i might not be available afterwards--lol -- and we don't get a lot of hurricanes on the mississippi river--
but we get straight line winds and other weird things that can shut down the city--ice --
but for sure that might be a viable clause but not for me--so far so good--and i'm retired now unfortunately
but yeah you're right, jason, that is a viable reason for a clause --
like the horrible water problem in charleston wv right now like if the timing was off and you couldn't get more than your share of enough bottled water or a train derailment or any other chemical spill--yeah you're right though there's tons of possibilities though that could take out a cake--house fire--god forbid
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'The Millionaire Next Door" It really opens your eyes about money. And how most people get rich by not being showy frivolous wasteful fools with their money. I read it when it first came out.
I'll never forget the story about the multimillionaire who went to a big fancy foofoo party and asked for a beer. When asked what his favorite beer was, he said "Bud and FREE."
Yes, lots of great stories in that book. One of the best concepts I got out of it was to work smarter, not harder. The author discussed that he could either teach, in which case he would have to show up every day to get paid, or he could write about what he was teaching for a finite number of hours, and if his resulting book took off, he would be paid royalties forever, all for the work he did at that one point in time. I did something similar, on a much smaller scale in my drapery business. I created 10 drapery patterns, set up a website, and started selling them. I did the work once, and then profit every time I sell one.
This thread has really fun to participate in today! But I love the whole "business" aspect of being in business, and am fascinated by purchase behavior.
Liz
Lack of a contract does not mean there is no written communication. A complete quote, down to the detail, listing everything out with sketch attached does everything that you listed above - covers your ass, ensures everyone knows exactly what is expected. A check written out for the percentage specified in the quote - acknowledges that the customer agrees with everything on the quote, and honestly is what I accepted as their written agreement to place the order.
No contract doesn't mean a quickie sketch on the back of a used envelope - in a city like the one where I live, if someone showed up with a CONTRACT, complete with small print and legalese, they simply wouldn't be trusted. It may not be that way everywhere, but I live in a small, old school kind of town. Agreements are made with a handshake, and people keep their word.
Playing devil's advocate, how many contracts have you signed for retail purchases in the past year? Excluding credit card receipts? I haven't signed any.
Have I written a deposit check? Yes. Have I signed for delivery? Yes . But a full out contract - no.
Liz
Similarly, I also always have everything worked out and agreed to in writing over email. Then I confirm the details of the order with the deposit receipt email as soon as I run their card and delivery details are reconfirmed yet again on the Tuesday of the week of their party.
I didn't know there were these great books out there! Thanks, Liz!
Stitches, I'll sent that to you.
But I love the whole "business" aspect of being in business, and am fascinated by purchase behavior.
Liz
One thing I keep looking at and haven't been able to figure out is peoples response to pricing in a bakery depending upon the look of the place. To my surprise people will pay more (not intentionally) for an item at a cheap looking shop because somehow they perceive the pricing to be lower there. If you take the same person and put them in a fancy looking bakery they judge each item by the price tag only and perceive everything to be expensive there.
Has anyone else noticed that?
You could take that same concept to the look of a website. If it looks inexpensive does it garner more business than the expensive appearing website?
A
Original message sent by Stitches
One thing I keep looking at and haven't been able to figure out is peoples response to pricing in a bakery depending upon the look of the place. To my surprise people will pay more for an item at a cheap looking shop because somehow they perceive the pricing to be lower there. If you take the same person and put them in a fancy looking bakery they judge each item by the price tag only and perceive everything to be expensive there.
Where have you noticed this? It's possible that there is anecdotal evidence to fit this behavior, but it runs counter to the reference price effect...if midrange product X is at the top end of a line assortment at a discount store, price sensitivity among consumers will be higher because of the cheaper alternatives available. Conversely, if the same product is at the low end of the offerings at an upscale store there will be less price sensitivity.
If a price-sensitive customer happens to find their way into an upscale bakery, they could be more likely to buy a midrange product at a non-discounted price if it is the cheapest one available, but you would have to assume that there are no alternative retailers offering downmarket products and consider that the price-sensitive customer is probably not in the upscale bakery's target market anyway.
You could take that same concept to the look of a website. If it looks inexpensive does it garner more business than the expensive appearing website?
More revenue (if the low-end of the market is targeted)? Possibly. More profit? Doubtful.
You've said it all in your title, "Buying a Cake is about the Experience".
- people pay to get speciality luxury items,
- people pay to get special attention,
- people pay to get pampered guaranteed service.
- people pay to be served by sharp professional looking peeps in clean fancy surroundings.
I think that all your upscale High dollar Cakeries are letting people fly first class with their cakes. You not only build the plane, you fly it, and act as the air hostess.
I also think that you're all doing fine, and you're just having the "BoyDoesItSuckAfterHolidayBlues".
AAn interesting collection of psychological studies related to pricing. Note #5, "Context Matters".
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An interesting collection of psychological studies related to pricing. Note #5, "Context Matters".
http://blog.kissmetrics.com/5-psychological-studies/
Very fascinating, thanks Jason.
Liz
AInteresting thread, wonder about the expensive looking and their enquiries vs booking.
i would determine what would be attractive my target market and design it toward that end but like me too--
not that that's the best answer but that's what i'd do--
y'know what's an idea for you?
enlist some mystery shoppers somehow--might be kinda tricky since you are not a corporation but something like that maybe?
where the test questions could be directed to determining how they feel?? maybe maybe not ;)
So is looking really high end the smartest strategy for a cake business? Maybe looking expensive might prevent people from entering your shop? Or buying based on your website design.
This is all relative. An interior that looks high end to one person might just look clean and neat to another. Your customer would really have to be keyed into design to make a determination about whether an interior met the subjective criteria of "high end".
Walmart used to intentionally design stores with brown and orange (may have been orange and blue, I can't remember) interior accents because their focus groups thought that these colors looked like the prices inside would be lower. Like Walmart wasn't wasting money updating store interiors - just passing the savings on to consumers. And have you noticed what their new color schemes have been over the past 10 years? Red and blue, patriotic, "go USA" colors. Maybe that is to counteract all the negative "crap from China" labels that get associated with their merchandise. I bet their next move is to greens and yellows to ride the organic, all natural bandwagon.
So yes, your interior does matter, but unless you have some overtly high end design features (over the top chandeliers, marble floors, ultra fancy uniforms, etc.) I am not sure the average consumer would read many bakery designs here in the US as high end.
Liz
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Original message sent by liz at sugar
This is all relative.
Agreed. There is no single "smartest" strategy for any business, it depends entirely on what your target market is expecting.
I bet their next move is to greens and yellows to ride the organic, all natural bandwagon.
You are correct, this is what the new Walmart "Neighborhood Markets" (positioned as replacements for grocery stores) look like:
http://bellevuebusinessjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Neighborhood_Market-General-Interior.jpg http://universe.byu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/neighborhood-market-chicago_129852273128460201.jpg
A
Original message sent by -K8memphis
enlist some mystery shoppers somehow--might be kinda tricky since you are not a corporation but something like that maybe?
There's no need for mystery shoppers, you just need to talk with people who are in your target demographic and find out what they are looking for. Working with a marketing professional to create a survey and/or run a focus group would greatly improve the quality of feedback.
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