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Original message sent by ckpeaches
Enga you did not offend me and i thank you for giving me advice i was manly upset by the ones bad mouthing my cake i did this for free for my fathers second marriage and it was my first attempt at such a large cake and someone asked me yesterday how much i would charge for a cake similar with different flowers so i had no clue she never told me hoe many ppl it would need to feed yet so i was trying to get some help about how to go about pricing for when she tells me i know wedding cakes are usually charged by serving but being as i am new to this and don't know if my stuff is that great i wanted an opinion on pricing not ridicule on the look of my cake.
I didn't see anyone "bad-mouthing" your cake, I saw some honest constructive criticism but that's about it. The reality of running a business is that pricing goes hand-in-hand with saleability, and if your products are not saleable (based on the perception of your target market) you can't realistically charge for them.
They don't effect me because I don't let them effect me. The cheap cake lady is not my enemy. I sell cheap cake to cheap people because that's the market I'm in right now. In the end they are only hurting themselves if they don't make a profit. I wont because my prices are set for that market. My business plan is set up to reach a different market that appreciates my unique cake and cookie designs and the quality of my ingredients.
As you've pointed out, I don't know anything about your personal situation. Do you really mean a real profit where it's it's the amount above all costs that includes your wage? Often when I get into an argument with someone who is not effected, it turns out they are undercharging, but that doesn't sound like your situation. And I myself even have a business plan to target people who only want to pay around $150 for a nice cake order.
But here's the problem: With some regularity I will have a customer say to me that they would much prefer to go with me, but so-and-so-other-baker says she'll do it for half the price. I still stay booked, but not as far ahead as I'd like to be.
The most disturbing thing is this: I live in a very large city. But for some weird reason I only sell cakes to people far away from me. I'm in the suburbs, but my suburb sales are almost 100% on the other side of town from mine- I'm talking 45 to 60 minute deliveries one way. There are plenty of large affluent areas on my side of town, but for some reason I don't have sales nearer me. I've wondered for some time why this could be - just doesn't make sense. Until a few weeks ago on this forum..... there was a post by someone who proudly told every one that she and a group of 15 other bakers have agreed on prices for her area. You want to guess where that area turned out to be? Her prices are not even close to what they'd have to be to support even the most modest apartment and also put food on the table. But she was adamant that they were. Why? Because she doesn't even know.
She apparently got her prices from talking to other ladies in her cake club and it would seem none of them really understand pricing. It's just like people who ask for prices on here. If 8 people post that $2 a serving is great and one person says you can't possibly make a living off that, charge $7, they go with the majority and what sounds comfortable and easier.
Do these people get burned out? Some do, but someone always pops up to take their place. This forum is inundated with people just starting out.
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You're right, if that happened, the doctor would go out of business. That's how free trade is supposed to work. Those doctors are competing in a situation where they cannot ignore their overhead costs and they actually have to figure out on paper whether they made money. Level playing field. They get business training in school and likely they've hired people to help them run their business. They aren't working from home supported by a spouse who is the primary bread winner trying to bring in some extra money for ballet lessons. And I don't want to sound like I have a problem with that. Everyone should have that right, but for heaven's sake get paid what you're worth and don't mindlessly put others out of business.
These home bakers are not charging according to the market, they are artificially deflating the market. Why is it artificial? Because what they charge is not enough to make a living. Artificial deflation doesn't result in a correction of the market, it results in fewer and fewer real businesses. Eventually in many places only place to get a cake may wind up being a home baker or a grocery store. And you might say, what's wrong with that, but it means the death of professional caking as a viable business.
This is a national trend. Why do you think famous bakers are teaching more and making cakes less? They are jumping on the bandwagon to teach new bakers emerging everywhere.
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Enga you did not offend me and i thank you for giving me advice i was manly upset by the ones bad mouthing my cake i did this for free for my fathers second marriage and it was my first attempt at such a large cake and someone asked me yesterday how much i would charge for a cake similar with different flowers so i had no clue she never told me hoe many ppl it would need to feed yet so i was trying to get some help about how to go about pricing for when she tells me i know wedding cakes are usually charged by serving but being as i am new to this and don't know if my stuff is that great i wanted an opinion on pricing not ridicule on the look of my cake.
But then you have to ask her how many people it will need to feed. Or how big she wants the cake to be. No one can give you a price without a size. Unless you expect them to give you prices for all possible sizes.
These are such basic questions that one needs to consider when pricing a cake. Which I why I said that you may not be ready to be taking on the responsibility of someones wedding. As one person on here likes to post, you don't know what you don't know. And you don't want to discover you missed something important after it's too late. Weddings are not the place to get your first experiences.
And regarding "ridicule on the look of my cake". I doubt that person realized you had posted your own cake.
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Everyone should have that right, but for heaven's sake get paid what you're worth and don't mindlessly put others out of business.
These home bakers are not charging according to the market, they are artificially deflating the market. Why is it artificial? Because what they charge is not enough to make a living. Artificial deflation doesn't result in a correction of the market, it results in fewer and fewer real businesses. Eventually in many places only place to get a cake may wind up being a home baker or a grocery store. And you might say, what's wrong with that, but it means the death of professional caking as a viable business.
How sweet this is what has needed to be said all along. No T No Shade, just the facts that everyone can understand.
I live in a poverty stricken area of the country. The mom and pop bakeries have all but gone under. My customers, don't have much to begin with and when they do buy a cake they usually get it from grocery stores and places like Walmart. No, they don't like my prices which are higher. So some say girrrrrl that is to much, I say girrrrrl go to Walmart and while you're there ask them what is in their icing, do they use real butter, and do they bake their cakes on site. I win some I lose some. But the ones I win always come back and by word of mouth bring me new customers.
"These home bakers are not charging according to the market, they are artificially deflating the market. Why is it artificial? Because what they charge is not enough to make a living. Artificial deflation doesn't result in a correction of the market, it results in fewer and fewer real businesses. Eventually in many places only place to get a cake may wind up being a home baker or a grocery store. And you might say, what's wrong with that, but it means the death of professional caking as a viable business"
The world according to me (HA)! I'm sure Jason and some other people here will correct me......but here's my take on things:
It began with grocery stores, putting legal bakeries out of business all across the country........by not making a profit in some departments (the bakery) because it was off set by sales in other departments of the store (meats).
In time they got screwed over by the big box stores......Wal-Mart/Sams, Costco.
Costco is the busiest grocery store in my area (by a mile). The big box stores are now out pricing wholesale food businesses that supply restaurants.
People eat out at restaurants and think the prices are too high. They mistakenly believe the restaurants are getting product for less than the big box stores. So restaurants are hurt too.
Americans have unrealistic ideas of food prices due to the big box stores (which have squashed the whole market). Now Amazon is getting into the game. Before we know it our choices have dwindled down to fewer stores and these mega giant store that control our whole economy.
Thank-goodness to the new farmers markets and chefs/people trying to get us back to basics and buying from the farmers, etc... That's the only hope I see, people wanting artisan foods. The cake decorators that are unique because their food is superior are the only ones who will profit.
Like Jason always writes, "what's your competitive edge"? Just a pretty cake isn't enough anymore. I don't like people who undervalue their work........but in the long run it's up to YOU to have a better product worth attracting the right customers.
I can't comment on the restaurant industry, only know about cakes and bakery, but think you have that all just about right. The grocery stores were so aggressive, and still are. It seems like if what they did was legal, it was close to the line. Undercharging to gain a monopoly by operating at a loss is an ugly business. And even though home bakers undercharging is not to intentionally gain a monopoly, it does have the same effect. It's a horrible, horrible thing to do to legitimate businesses.
And I want to be clear about something - I don't have a problem with home bakers - I'm a home baker myself. I use the term "home baker" because it's always home bakers undercharging. A brick and mortar bakery cannot undercharge -- it has no choice but to charge enough to survive.
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I live in a poverty stricken area of the country. The mom and pop bakeries have all but gone under. My customers, don't have much to begin with and when they do buy a cake they usually get it from grocery stores and places like Walmart. No, they don't like my prices which are higher. So some say girrrrrl that is to much, I say girrrrrl go to Walmart and while you're there ask them what is in their icing, do they use real butter, and do they bake their cakes on site. I win some I lose some. But the ones I win always come back and by word of mouth bring me new customers.
Good luck, I don't know how you survive. My new "budget" line will still cost $150.
Good luck, I don't know how you survive. My new "budget" line will still cost $150.
Thank You Howsweet, I think it's my God given drive to succeed that keeps me going, that and the dream of owning a business.
Thank You Stiches! I started off in the meat department as a meat wrapper. I would spend almost my whole break in the Bakery department talking to the cake decorators Who were making $16.00 an hour. One girl was making wedding cakes on the side was bringing in 2500 a pop per wedding cake with at least 2-3 per week. This was in the late nineties. I dreamed of making the money that they were.
Fast track to 2006, I started doing bake off at a health food store. Making all natural baked goods like sweet potato muffins, Vegan cookies, and artisan breads. I transferred to the meat department because of the mellow dramatic atmosphere in the kitchen. Would somebody PLEASE tell me why some chefs are so arrogant! While in the meat department I had to work with this OLD WORLD misogynistic pita meat cutter the believed women had no place in the meat department. After a year putting up with so much garbage, he came to work hungover and got mad at a customer and threw a knife right past me into the wall. That was the end of my meat department career,lolz. Management put me in the wellness department where I was further introduced to living a healthy lifestyle.
It was a laid back job helping customers choose vitamins, supplements and herbs. While working there, I tasted the best foods in the word. All natural, organic, and healthy foods. That's when I decided to go back to school to be a Pastry Chef and incorporate all I had experienced into baked products. Its funny now that I think about it, my life has turned full circle form messing up my mom's kitchen trying to be Julia Childs to becoming a Pastry Chef.
After I graduated, I put my life savings into a all natural bakery business that failed. People in the market area I was in did not want to pay for quality healthy products. If I only knew then what I know now. I get why the rep at my supplier laughed at me when I said I wanted to make all my products from scratch.
I don't like the market I'm in now but it helps to keep a roof over my head. There are not a lot of home bakers where I live that I know of. There might be a lot on FB but I don't have a FB page. My main competition is the big box stores as you called them. I want to do things differently but I cant afford to. As I said we work out of a small commercial kitchen. Our prices are for basic cakes and we use the menu from the school bakery.
We did a lot of farmers markets and fairs in late spring and summer. I didn't see it as competition because there were so much good stuff to go around. We made a killing on just mini fruit pies, granola apple crisp and other products. We only bought what was in season and worked our menus around that. Sorry to say we will be closing it down after the new year.
ckpeaches I wish you all the luck in the world. Follow your dreams, keep practicing and grow your craft. Maybe take a small business class, it really helps. Believe me you don't want to jump out there like I did. I remember you said you learned a lot from you tube videos, I have too.
Again, GOOD LUCK!
"I want to do things differently but I cant afford to."
Isn't that all of us (it's definitely the majority of people). That gap between the wealthy and the rest of us just keeps getting bigger. As a whole I suppose we the little guys are responsible for our current problems. If we could afford not to buy from those big box stores and only buy from small local businesses I think our situation of lower prices and earnings might be different.
It's hard to get mad at bakers who can't charge more because there isn't a market for their product. I'm definitely in that group. If I priced at what many other people here price at, I'd never have any work. What are we supposed to do, move to a place where there isn't competition or quit? Neither are options. We price as high as we can.
I only get upset by the cakers that intentionally remain ignorant and refuse to see how they play a role in the market. This website has grown and changed enormously from when I first read here, years ago. Everyone has worked really hard to bring up the average level of knowledge here.
Keep on, it's working even though it's slow.
"I want to do things differently but I cant afford to."
Isn't that all of us (it's definitely the majority of people). That gap between the wealthy and the rest of us just keeps getting bigger. As a whole I suppose we the little guys are responsible for our current problems. If we could afford not to buy from those big box stores and only buy from small local businesses I think our situation of lower prices and earnings might be different.
It's hard to get mad at bakers who can't charge more because there isn't a market for their product. I'm definitely in that group. If I priced at what many other people here price at, I'd never have any work. What are we supposed to do, move to a place where there isn't competition or quit? Neither are options. We price as high as we can.
I only get upset by the cakers that intentionally remain ignorant and refuse to see how they play a role in the market. This website has grown and changed enormously from when I first read here, years ago. Everyone has worked really hard to bring up the average level of knowledge here.
Keep on, it's working even though it's slow.
Hopefully They will listen. Me, I'm working 2 part time jobs and caking on the side just to make ends meet. I think I'm going to give it up for a little while until I can possibly rent a store front.
While I'm taking a break. I'm going to move out of my apartment and find a small house with a big yard so I can plant a garden and invest in a chicken coop since they passed that law here. Now if they would only allow me to get some cows and a horse and buggy while the demand is still low. Heee he he.
I would really like to go back to basic living. When I to the grocery stores (that I can afford), I'm seriously scared of the food lately.
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