Ibadanqueen Posted 17 Nov 2013 , 10:14am
post #1 of

Monring everyone, 

can any of you experts (or non experts) help me with a problem? This has happened a couple of times and now i am getting worried although i think i have an idea what is going wrong.

When i bake my cakes (usually a mudcake or a maderia), i use a sugar syrup to make it nice and moist. I think i am putting too much but maybe this isnt the problem. 

I also add syrup when i cut my cake before i add ganache or buttercream. then i coat it with the butter cream/ ganache and then fondant. 

I dont put my cakes in the fridge but leave it outside and now that it is winter, it is a bit warm. if i leave the cake overnight when i look at it the next day it has sagged and cracked the fondant. i dont know if it is because

1. i use too much syrup and the cake isnt sturdy enough

2. i leave it in a warm place which softens the ganache or buttercream thus making the cake slide

3. or a combo of all of the above???

 

i would of thought that using ganache would of made the cake solid an thus prevent it from sliding but the recent one i have made yesterday has just slid and buckled!! 

 

 

 

Does anyone have any idea or advise that they can share with me? I am open to all from all!!

 

Thanks everyone and have a lovely Sunday

Davina

newbie cake decorator from Switzerland!

18 replies
cupcakemaker Posted 17 Nov 2013 , 11:13am
post #2 of

AI'm no expert but I'd have thought it was your ganache that's the problem. What recipe are you using?

mcaulir Posted 17 Nov 2013 , 11:15am
post #3 of

How tall is your cake? You should have supports and a board every 4 inches or so. That being said, I haven't known mud cake and ganache to buckle like that.

Ibadanqueen Posted 17 Nov 2013 , 11:18am
post #4 of

AHi there. I'm using a white chocolate ganache. Ratio of 3 chocolate to 1 cream. It was very pliable when I was covering the cake then I placed it in the fridge before covering it with fondant.

Thanks Davina

Ibadanqueen Posted 17 Nov 2013 , 11:34am
post #5 of

the cake is about 18 cm :( tall. i thought i would forgo supports because of the shape and i also mud cake would be sturdy to hold the weight which is why i went with it. 

I am going to try again but make a round cake this time. I have made the cake and placed it outside to cool in the cold. I need to start working on it this evening. 

I will take into consideration the height this time and support it if necessary. I will also place it in the fridge when i finish working on it. Hopefully this will stop it from sagging if that could be the cause that the room is too warm and softening the cake and the ganache. 

 

If anyone else has any other suggestions or advice.. would love to hear them.

 

Thanks

Davina

Daisyblue002 Posted 17 Nov 2013 , 11:36am
post #6 of

Hmmm, I've not had that with any of my mud cakes before. I don't add sugar syrup to the actual mud cake batter, just apply a thin layer after torting the cakes and before applying the ganache. Maybe too much syrup was applied to the cake allowing the ganache and fondant to slip down after a few hours. If the ganache was really soft ( in warm weather) and the fondant thick, it may have dragged it down? Would be interested to see what others can offer.

bigdad Posted 17 Nov 2013 , 1:06pm
post #7 of

Are you using butter cream and ganache and then fondant? go to this site some good info here www.designer-cakes.com good luck your work looks great.

mcaulir Posted 17 Nov 2013 , 8:44pm
post #8 of

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daisyblue002 
 

Hmmm, I've not had that with any of my mud cakes before. I don't add sugar syrup to the actual mud cake batter, just apply a thin layer after torting the cakes and before applying the ganache. Maybe too much syrup was applied to the cake allowing the ganache and fondant to slip down after a few hours. If the ganache was really soft ( in warm weather) and the fondant thick, it may have dragged it down? Would be interested to see what others can offer.

Oh, are you adding sugar syrup to the batter before cooking it? That might be making your cake too soft.

Daisyblue002 Posted 18 Nov 2013 , 1:03am
post #9 of

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcaulir 
 

Oh, are you adding sugar syrup to the batter before cooking it? That might be making your cake too soft.

I've never added sugar syrup to the batter before but I would imagine that could affect the density of the mud cake so that might be part of the problem. If it's baked right it should still be nice and moist without adding syrup.

mcaulir Posted 18 Nov 2013 , 6:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daisyblue002 
 

I've never added sugar syrup to the batter before but I would imagine that could affect the density of the mud cake so that might be part of the problem. If it's baked right it should still be nice and moist without adding syrup.

Sorry, I mucked that up - I meant to ask the OP. I don't actually think mudcakes need sugar syrup after baking either.

howsweet Posted 18 Nov 2013 , 8:47am

It looks to me like the fondant is stretching and when it stretches it has no place to go, so it buckles. This can be caused by high humidity and/or heat. And the type of fondant you use is also a factor. Some people add tylose to fondant when humidity is very high, but be careful if you don't want to wind up with a hard shell. One thing you might try - after you cover with fondant, trim a bit so stretching fondant has a place to go and keep an eye on it so you can trim as needed.

Daisyblue002 Posted 18 Nov 2013 , 9:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcaulir 
 

Sorry, I mucked that up - I meant to ask the OP. I don't actually think mudcakes need sugar syrup after baking either.

No worries mcaulir   :)

Ibadanqueen Posted 18 Nov 2013 , 9:16am

Hi Everyone!

Many thanks for your responses. After staring at the cake for a long while wondering what i was going to go with it, i decided on an autopsy where i think the main reason was the heat as well as the syrup that i added after i baked the cake. When i finished baking the cake i added the sugar syrup and i over did this.... i noticed that there was liquid seeping from the bottom on the cake. After covering the cake with the ganache, i put it into the fridge to harden then when ready to put the fondant on, i used water to make sure that it stuck to the hard ganache. i believe i overdid this as well which didnt help matters. The apartment was too warm so fondant was soft and the ganache was also soft then with the leaking of the liquid... i think this just made the whole thing slide and buckle.

I was able to salvage the cake and have remade it. right now it is outside chilling in the cold.

 

i like the idea of adding some tylose to the fondant because i did notice that it was pulling when i lifted it to cover the cake.

 

Thanks once again everyone for your advise and suggestions. I will post some pictures when i am done with my home made Birken bag!!!

 

Take care

Davina

mcaulir Posted 18 Nov 2013 , 9:28am

Have you tried eating mud cake without the sugar syrup, OP? I know Planet Cake suggests it in all their books, but I really think it's unnecessary.

 

Glad you (maybe) worked out your issue. Better luck next time!

bigdad Posted 18 Nov 2013 , 11:42am

go on you tube to Paul Bradford lots of good videos

GMSSC Posted 18 Nov 2013 , 11:52am

I would take the syrup out of the equation completely. You dont need it. Add tylose to fondant, or change the fondant brand. During high humidity season i use Bakels fondant and i refrigerate all my cakes before and after fondant application. However if you are going to airbrush your cake, do so before refrigeration. Good luck :-)

CakeChemistry Posted 18 Nov 2013 , 12:06pm

AAnother small thing to consider is how well you are attaching the fondant. It should be stuck fast to your ganache or buttercream, and really pushed on, if you have any air bubbles underneath it is gaps in how it is stuck. Air bubbles move around and can ruin how well it is stuck. That and the warmth. Just an idea, these are the problems I find I have with sounding fondant. It also needs to be pretty thin I find but I don't know how thin you can do it if you are going to texture it! Xxx

alanis712 Posted 18 Nov 2013 , 4:43pm

If you put too much filling in the cake, the weight of the fondant tends to squeeze it out from between the layers. Then because it had nowhere to go, it causes bulges at the bottom, or at the sides sometimes if it can't manage to ooze down. If you're using ganache, you may want to try "locking it in" by piping about an inch of buttercream around each layer, before filling with the ganache.

Another thing is that if your fondant doesn't stick to the buttercream, it will slide. I usually spritz my buttercream-ed cake (with a little water) before laying the fondant on it. It's always best to refrigerate the buttercream covered cake before putting the fondant on it. The purpose of the spritzing is to allow the fondant to stick - if it doesn't stick you get air bubbles, slipping, sliding, oozing, you name it!

Hope this helps.

Have a great day!

johnbailey64 Posted 18 Nov 2013 , 9:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by howsweet 
 

It looks to me like the fondant is stretching and when it stretches it has no place to go, so it buckles. This can be caused by high humidity and/or heat. And the type of fondant you use is also a factor. Some people add tylose to fondant when humidity is very high, but be careful if you don't want to wind up with a hard shell. One thing you might try - after you cover with fondant, trim a bit so stretching fondant has a place to go and keep an eye on it so you can trim as needed.

I did a purse cake with buttercream under the fondant and this happened to mine. It wasn't the cake, I had added supports...but I was too generous with the buttercream and it allowed the fondant to stretch and slide. I cranked up my air... trimmed off the excess. It came out ok! lol Whew!

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