FDA ruling could ban shortening with trans fats in US

Decorating By jason_kraft Updated 26 Nov 2013 , 2:07pm by milkmaid42

costumeczar Posted 8 Nov 2013 , 11:45am
post #31 of 202

AI've been using an all-butter formula for buttercram with confectioner's sugar, or you could use a meringue buttercram, which tastes better anyway. No trans fats required. It's the cake mixes that will be affected, because food companies use trans fats to keep things on the shelf longer. The process of making the trans fat makes them not go rancid as fast, so they use them for things that will be sitting on suprmarket shelves for months.

Switch to the all butter icing, it tastes better too. http://acaketorememberva.blogspot.com/2013/08/weird-buttercream-recipe.html

JWinslow Posted 8 Nov 2013 , 2:14pm
post #32 of 202

The FDA is in the 60 day comment & info gathering stage.  I suspect this is more about giving people time to make adjustments - including bakers :)

 

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm373939.htm
 

SweetBunny Posted 8 Nov 2013 , 2:51pm
post #33 of 202

I think the problem has long been that our everyday foods contain too much bad things in small quantities - be it trans fat, high-fructose corn syrup, flavorings/colorings, you name it. We take it for granted, or have up until recently. Cumulatively we consume way more this way, I'd guess, than with the occasional all-out yummy indulgence of an occasional frosted and food-colored cake.

 

Honesty in labeling should be the key - no "per serving" bamboozlements, and individual ingredients should be listed, even if they're bugs, or sea critters - people can vote with their pocketbooks; some will eat the stuff anyway and for those with allergies it is indeed critical to know what they may be ingesting. I have a friend with serious food allergies who is justifiably irritated by foods that list "spices" under the ingredients. That, or "artificial and/or natural flavorings" doesn't tell a person much that helps him or her decide whether it's okay to eat that food.

howsweet Posted 8 Nov 2013 , 4:32pm
post #34 of 202

AI agree about labeling, but if a person is eating foods with added sugar of any kind, coloring, and flavoring it's unlikely that those ingredients are the biggest diet issue he/she has if attempting to eat a healthy diet. That's not "the problem" iow.

hbquikcomjamesl Posted 8 Nov 2013 , 4:36pm
post #35 of 202

Quote:

Originally Posted by costumeczar 

I've been using an all-butter formula for buttercram with confectioner's sugar, or you could use a meringue buttercram, which tastes better anyway.

 

I've been using "The Recipe That's Been On The Back Of The C&H Powdered Sugar Box Since Before Most Of Us Were Born," all-butter, hand-mixed (my preferred implement being a stainless steel dinner fork), since the days when there were more dry frosting mixes on the grocer's shelves than canned frostings. And my strawberry and maple-cinnamon frostings are derived directly from that recipe.

 

And I prefer both the flavor and the texture to any frosting I've tasted on any professionally baked and decorated cake.

Jeff_Arnett Posted 8 Nov 2013 , 4:43pm
post #36 of 202

Wow..just curious...how do you hand mix enough frosting to do a wedding cake?

MimiFix Posted 8 Nov 2013 , 4:47pm
post #37 of 202

Jeff, Mr. Bisquick :wink:  just enjoys baking. There are lots of hobby bakers on here. 

SweetBunny Posted 8 Nov 2013 , 4:51pm
post #38 of 202

Quote:

Originally Posted by howsweet 

I agree about labeling, but if a person is eating foods with added sugar of any kind, coloring, and flavoring it's unlikely that those ingredients are the biggest diet issue he/she has if attempting to eat a healthy diet. That's not "the problem" iow.


Well, if we're talking about cake, it's hardly possible to avoid sugar. An occasional indulgence is permissible on a diet if planned for and exercise done to compensate for it, if you're tracking it that closely.

hbquikcomjamesl Posted 8 Nov 2013 , 5:29pm
post #39 of 202

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff_Arnett 
 

Wow..just curious...how do you hand mix enough frosting to do a wedding cake?

Dunno. Never had any reason to find out.

 

But remember: printing presses and small machine tools can certainly be (as the printer in Colonial Williamsburg puts it) "powered by beer." Back in the 18th century, anything that was too small to be run by a water wheel generally was run by elbow-grease.

 

And looking at it from another direction, I'm sure that if I needed to duplicate the dense, candy-like texture of hand-mixed BC, I'm sure that any mixer that can be run slowly enough to knead bread dough could also be run at a speed that would approximate the speed of a hand-held dinner fork blending powdered sugar with room-temperature (or sometimes colder) butter and some combination of liquid ingredients.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MimiFix 
 

Jeff, Mr. Bisquick :wink:  just enjoys baking. There are lots of hobby bakers on here. 

Mr. Bisquick? To whom are you referring (yes, I've made biscuits and even a cake from it, and I regularly make waffles from it, but . . . ?)  BTW: did you know that Bisquick was invented by a railroad dining car cook? My understanding is that about all General Mills did with the recipe was to substitute shortening for the original lard. Rectangular loaves of bread were also a dining car invention: they could be packed into the tight space of a dining car kitchen with less wasted space.

Jeff_Arnett Posted 8 Nov 2013 , 5:47pm
post #40 of 202

I hope my question wasn't taken out of context....I was just curious....I guess I assumed you decorated a variety of cakes weekly like many people here do, and I couldn't imagine how you possible would make large quantities of icing by hand.  I make sometimes 2 or 3 20 quart batches a week in peak baking season.......

shannycakers Posted 8 Nov 2013 , 5:52pm
post #41 of 202

ok I see alot of comments and laughs, and off topic responses from those who dont currently use Sweetex or high ratio shortening, but for those of us with our recipe that DO use them.. including Sharon Zambino...what are we going to do now? I will not switch to SMBC or anything similar.

 

Has anyone tried the Sweetex Z?? I would like to keep my crusting please. ANYONE? this is huge problem, laugh all you want but for us crusting buttercream makers...and lovers.. this is a huge deal that needs addressed and help from the cake central community..

liz at sugar Posted 8 Nov 2013 , 6:16pm
post #42 of 202

Quote:

Originally Posted by shannycakers 
 

Has anyone tried the Sweetex Z?? I would like to keep my crusting please. ANYONE? this is huge problem, laugh all you want but for us crusting buttercream makers...and lovers.. this is a huge deal that needs addressed and help from the cake central community..

 

Jason and embersmom have both answered the question above, right in this thread . . .

 

If you go back and read it, you will see what both of them have experienced using the zero trans fat version of Sweetex.

 

Liz

shannycakers Posted 8 Nov 2013 , 6:24pm
post #43 of 202

Yes I had already seen that, Jason says its ok...except for temp.. and the Embers mom says " The icing we use at work went ZTF a couple of years ago, and there is a definite difference in its texture, depending on the season. During the colder months we have to store it closer to the oven because it gets too hard and crumbly otherwise. Conversely, during the warmer months it can be quite gloppy'.

 

That is 2 stark differences, which is why I asked for more experienced people to chime in that also use it, or another alternative that people have ACTUALLY used.

 

I do not consider that enough of a poll to determine whether I am going to purchase 50 pounds of Sweetex Z... which is expensive when 2 people are saying its temperamental and gloppy occasionally..

 

which is WHY i stated I wanted more peoples opinions and help that are crusting buttercream users. I do not need someone telling me to re-read a thread I have already read. If your not a crusting user, dont bother to comment if your not helping. I am now wasting my time responding to you..

shannycakers Posted 8 Nov 2013 , 6:29pm
post #44 of 202

additionally, is everyone forgetting that fondant has trans-fats also in it...

liz at sugar Posted 8 Nov 2013 , 6:30pm
post #45 of 202

Sorry, I was just pointing out that two users had experience using it, and it doesn't react the same way.  If any others have experience I am sure they will chime in, but it sounds like you probably shouldn't order 50 lbs of it if you were hoping it would handle the same as the trans fat version.

 

Good luck!

 

Liz

shannycakers Posted 8 Nov 2013 , 6:38pm
post #46 of 202

Thank you Liz, I just stocked up from my supplier before the big ban occurrs, I am just upset about this as this is my tried n true recipe I love. I am not sure what everyone is going to do about the fondant with all the trans fats either..

 

Its so funny the FDA is banning this, but promoted GMO- food. ahahah its laughable, I wont even get started on the effects of that as I would be on here all day, and I have a masters in public health so I am well educated on food health, lol.

MBalaska Posted 8 Nov 2013 , 7:51pm
post #47 of 202

 Rectangular loaves of bread were also a dining car invention: they could be packed into the tight space of a dining car kitchen with less wasted space.

hbquikcomjamesl:  that's why they are called 'PULLMAN' loaves, pans with the lids to make a square loaf of bread that could be stacked in the kitchen train shelves.  woohoo I love history tidbits like that.

MBalaska Posted 8 Nov 2013 , 8:10pm
post #48 of 202

Quote:

Originally Posted by shannycakers 
 

Thank you Liz, I just stocked up from my supplier before the big ban occurrs, I am just upset about this as this is my tried n true recipe I love. I am not sure what everyone is going to do about the fondant with all the trans fats either..

 

Its so funny the FDA is banning this, but promoted GMO- food. ahahah its laughable, I wont even get started on the effects of that as I would be on here all day, and I have a masters in public health so I am well educated on food health, lol.

shannycakers:   You're right. Sorry I got OT there. and I was only thinking about my buttercream with High Ratio Shortening. YesThe fondant does need the saturated solid white fat also and if the new fat stuff is inconsistent and highly heat sensitive, then Fondant will be affected also.

 

{ps: You know that the FDA washintonian federalies don't really care about health (as you well understand from your education) they care about money and power and control of big business. They use the term health to cover their actual motive & activities such as lining their pockets with big business cash and to make it palatable to the masses.}   but we who can't do a dang thing about it are Still stuck with the muck they create and force us to live with.

embersmom Posted 8 Nov 2013 , 8:39pm
post #49 of 202

shannycakers, I'll have to look at the ingredient list to see what fat is used in the icing I was talking about.  Given that it's temperamental, I'm betting it's either the fat itself or whatever else is added to it.

carmijok Posted 9 Nov 2013 , 12:02am
post #50 of 202

Leave it to our illustrious nanny government and knee-jerk Health Department to decide what you will and will not eat.  They know what's best for everyone after all! 

 

You know you can force people to eat organic vegetables and exercise all day long and some will still be fat,  and some will die of cancer and some will still have heart disease.  Linda McCartney, famous vegan who died of breast cancer comes to mind as well as the acclaimed runner Jim Fixx who died of a heart attack while running.  We don't get out of this alive!

 

Why not just let the FDA come up with packaged meals that only contain what is allowed by law to be deemed 'healthy'...and distribute those to everyone in the country so we don't have to worry about what we're consuming!  We won't have to think...or cook, or use our taste buds...we'll just know what's good for us and eat it!  We'll all never get sick and live forever, right!

 

Am I an advocate for all trans-fats?  Not really...but I am against FORCING an entire industry to change based solely on the studies-du-jour that claim we're all going to die.  if you remember 30 years ago, trans-fats were introduced as a 'healthy' alternative to fats like that pesky coconut oil!  My have times have changed.  I'm so sick of this 'first- it's-bad-then- it's- good' flip-flop philosophy.

 

All this sadly reminds me of my mother in law who was dying of lung cancer.  She was laying in her bed, in obviously her last days and I asked her if there were anything she really wanted to eat besides the crap the hospital was giving her.  She looked at me and said 'Oh...I'd love a chocolate malt!"  so I told her I was on my way to get one for her when she stopped me and said..'Oh no...don't.  My doctor told me I'm not supposed to eat chocolate."     Really?  Was it really going to make a difference at that point?  The fact that she could have enjoyed something sweet was overridden by the fear of doing something the doctor said was 'not good' for her.  She died two days later.

 

The problem with all these so-called good intentions is that no one knows when or where it will stop.  I live in a country that is supposed to be about freedom of choice...now it's more and more about the freedom to choose based on who decides what choices you are allowed to make-- based on scientific studies that may change with the wind.  I find that a bit scary.

jason_kraft Posted 9 Nov 2013 , 12:18am
post #51 of 202

A

Original message sent by shannycakers

I do not consider that enough of a poll to determine whether I am going to purchase 50 pounds of Sweetex Z... which is expensive when 2 people are saying its temperamental and gloppy occasionally..

Unfortunately no amount of "polls" will help you since everyone has a different recipe and a different process. I recommend contacting your current supplier and explaining the situation, then see if you can purchase a smaller amount as a trial or inquire about the return policy. Even if you can't, ZTF is the new reality in the US so your choices are to either use ZTF shortening or remove shortening from the recipe entirely.

additionally, is everyone forgetting that fondant has trans-fats also in it...

Satin Ice fondant does not have trans fats. Fondx does, but they have a ZTF version called Fondx Zero, so just as with shortening any fondant that had trans fats will likely be phased out and replaced by the ZTF formulation.

jason_kraft Posted 9 Nov 2013 , 12:23am
post #52 of 202

A

Original message sent by carmijok

based on scientific studies that may change with the wind. 

The results from scientific studies change over time due to advancements in the understanding of how the human body handles food and improvements in testing methodologies.

Personally I would much rather regulatory agencies change opinions based on new information instead of sticking to a discredited view just to avoid "flip flopping".

I do agree that there are better solutions to banning trans fats entirely...for example, a tax could be imposed on all foods containing trans fats to compensate for increased health care costs, and a "contains trans fat" black box warning (similar to those used on pharmaceuticals) could be prominently displayed on the front of the package in large letters.

Norasmom Posted 9 Nov 2013 , 12:40am
post #53 of 202

"You know you can force people to eat organic vegetables and exercise all day long and some will still be fat,  and some will die of cancer and some will still have heart disease.  Linda McCartney, famous vegan who died of breast cancer comes to mind as well as the acclaimed runner Jim Fixx who died of a heart attack while running.  We don't get out of this alive!"  That's right Carmijok!

 

Don't forget about Steve Jobs and his vegan diet, supposedly to help him from getting cancer…

 

Many health issues are due to heredity…my grandfather lived to 94 and he ate all kinds of trans fats and was exposed to all kinds of chemicals.  (My grandmother was a fabulous cook!)  In our family, cholesterol is naturally low as is blood pressure.  I still try to watch what I eat but trans fats don't scare me. Also, I don't want to live to be 100, I won't be able to afford it…:-D 

Norasmom Posted 9 Nov 2013 , 12:47am
post #54 of 202

"You know you can force people to eat organic vegetables and exercise all day long and some will still be fat,  and some will die of cancer and some will still have heart disease.  Linda McCartney, famous vegan who died of breast cancer comes to mind as well as the acclaimed runner Jim Fixx who died of a heart attack while running.  We don't get out of this alive!"  That's right Carmijok!

 

Don't forget about Steve Jobs and his vegan diet, supposedly to help him from getting cancer…

 

Many health issues are due to heredity…my grandfather lived to 94 and he ate all kinds of trans fats and was exposed to all kinds of chemicals.  (My grandmother was a fabulous cook!)  In our family, cholesterol is naturally low as is blood pressure.  I still try to watch what I eat but trans fats don't scare me. Also, I don't want to live to be 100, I won't be able to afford it…:-D 

-K8memphis Posted 9 Nov 2013 , 1:20am
post #55 of 202

Quote:

Originally Posted by carmijok 
 

Leave it to our illustrious nanny government and knee-jerk Health Department to decide what you will and will not eat.  They know what's best for everyone after all! 

 

You know you can force people to eat organic vegetables and exercise all day long and some will still be fat,  and some will die of cancer and some will still have heart disease.  Linda McCartney, famous vegan who died of breast cancer comes to mind as well as the acclaimed runner Jim Fixx who died of a heart attack while running.  We don't get out of this alive!

 

Why not just let the FDA come up with packaged meals that only contain what is allowed by law to be deemed 'healthy'...and distribute those to everyone in the country so we don't have to worry about what we're consuming!  We won't have to think...or cook, or use our taste buds...we'll just know what's good for us and eat it!  We'll all never get sick and live forever, right!

 

Am I an advocate for all trans-fats?  Not really...but I am against FORCING an entire industry to change based solely on the studies-du-jour that claim we're all going to die.  if you remember 30 years ago, trans-fats were introduced as a 'healthy' alternative to fats like that pesky coconut oil!  My have times have changed.  I'm so sick of this 'first- it's-bad-then- it's- good' flip-flop philosophy.

 

All this sadly reminds me of my mother in law who was dying of lung cancer.  She was laying in her bed, in obviously her last days and I asked her if there were anything she really wanted to eat besides the crap the hospital was giving her.  She looked at me and said 'Oh...I'd love a chocolate malt!"  so I told her I was on my way to get one for her when she stopped me and said..'Oh no...don't.  My doctor told me I'm not supposed to eat chocolate."     Really?  Was it really going to make a difference at that point?  The fact that she could have enjoyed something sweet was overridden by the fear of doing something the doctor said was 'not good' for her.  She died two days later.

 

The problem with all these so-called good intentions is that no one knows when or where it will stop.  I live in a country that is supposed to be about freedom of choice...now it's more and more about the freedom to choose based on who decides what choices you are allowed to make-- based on scientific studies that may change with the wind.  I find that a bit scary.

 

i got me & mom some of our favorite doughnuts a coupla weeks before she passed--she wasn't supposed to have sugar--she wasn't diabetic though--my brother got a little upset w/me but i'm really glad i did that--

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

and i think coconut oil is an especially significant example because planets would veer off course and the oceans would dry up if we continued to pop popcorn with it--it was doomsday and all for popping corn--srsly?

 

of course science changes--but it's the way we handle it as if it is earth shattering unless we change hard and fast and do penance that is most annoying to me

MBalaska Posted 9 Nov 2013 , 1:34am
post #56 of 202

I read the articles posted in the original post.  It recommends Butter and lard as they don't have artificial trans fats.  Butter and lard was shunned decades ago as BAD.

 

The circle completes itself like the snake eating it's own tail.

 

  • hydrogenated oil was supposed to be a healthy  replacement for lard. ( fat from a cows butt.)
  • margarine was the cheaper healthier version of butter.
  • Palm Kernel Oil and Coconut oil (solid at room temp) the miracle grease for commercial industrial bakeries.
  • cotton seed oil......better than butter.  (Sure let's eat our socks and pretend it's healthy.)

 

This- like everything else the Federalies do, is about Money.  They got their palms greased with greenbacks when they outlawed butter and lard demanding trans fats get used.

They'll get their pockets lined with gold again when they outlaw the trans-fats and demand something else is used.

 

If this wasn't the case they would simply Publish their findings based on their current scientific studies and let the buyer beware & decide for themselves what to buy and what to eat.

jason_kraft Posted 9 Nov 2013 , 3:27am
post #57 of 202

A

Original message sent by MBalaska

This- like everything else the Federalies do, is about Money. 

Can you explain how banning trans fats is in the best interest of any commercial organization? If money really was the main driver, one would expect the food industry lobby to quickly quash any talk of a trans fat ban.

They got their palms greased with greenbacks when they outlawed butter and lard demanding trans fats get used.

Butter and lard were never outlawed. Trans fats are being banned because according to studies they are not OK even in moderation. Butter and lard are fine in moderation.

If this wasn't the case they would simply Publish their findings based on their current scientific studies and let the buyer beware & decide for themselves what to buy and what to eat.

Unfortunately the majority of consumers don't even read ingredient labels, much less do research on scientific studies to determine what is safe and what is not safe. Aside from a prominent warning on the package or artificially increasing the cost of trans fat items there's not much else the FDA can do to protect people besides banning the unsafe ingredient.

MBalaska Posted 9 Nov 2013 , 4:33am
post #58 of 202

"United States Food and Drug Administration could ban shortening with trans fats in the United States"   US FDA:  a federal agency responsible for monitoring trading and safety standards in the food and drug industries.

 

so you do know about how Washinton D.C. Lobby's work as you mentioned it in your above post. So you understand perfectly how government, Big Corporations and their lobbyist work. grease & pork.

 

First you comment that you don't think they should stop selling it, just TAX it  and label it.

Then you flip flop and say that people are too stupid and won't read the labels so it must be banned.  flip-flop.

 

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -
  --  C.S. Lewis

 

(IMO - in my opinion- means exactly that) believe as you wish.  For those of us who are stuck with whatever the Washingtonian Federalies make the New Rule for today, we will IMPROVISE, ADAPT AND OVERCOME.  as well as SEMPER PARATUS.

jason_kraft Posted 9 Nov 2013 , 6:14am
post #59 of 202

A

Original message sent by MBalaska

First you comment that you don't think they should stop selling it, just TAX it  and label it. Then you flip flop and say that people are too stupid and won't read the labels so it must be banned.  flip-flop.

I said "Aside from a prominent warning on the package or artificially increasing the cost of trans fat items there's not much else the FDA can do to protect people besides banning the unsafe ingredient." My position has not changed as I still believe the first two options are preferable, but for whatever reason the choice was made to implement a ban. It's not what I would have done, but it's better than doing nothing.

I'm still not sure how "grease and pork" figure in to a regulatory decision that is so detrimental to so many powerful manufacturers in the food industry.

Nor do I agree that an agency responsible for regulating unsafe food doing its job is equivalent to "tyranny". You could use the same argument to argue away virtually any regulation since by definition it would be "for our own good".

embersmom Posted 9 Nov 2013 , 9:11am
post #60 of 202

I'm not especially crazy about living in a "nanny state" sort of thing with the government telling us what to/not to eat, but given that 1) the obesity levels of young people as of late is exploding; 2) most of the general public DOES NOT read labels; and 3) a widely-used type of fat has been shown to cause more damage (read obesity and other health issues, which means health insurance premiums keep rising), than good, I can understand the FDA getting involved.

 

And yeah, maybe some people have inherited inherited great genes.  Unfortunately that's not the case across the board.  My family is a perfect example, and so far :knocks wood:  their issues have seem to be eluding me,   For all I know, though, I could be contributing to my own ultimate demise every time I eat something that has something processed to it.

 

From a cake standpoint, though, this could very well matter somewhere down the line.  It's true that a lot of shortening products are no longer made with trans fats, but I'm willing to bet that there are more still being made with them.  My guess is that most of those are of the Sweetex or other commercial-only variety.  My greater fear is that the manufacturers will find something else that's worse for you, healthwise, and make that its new standard because it'll be cheaper to manufacture.  On a greater scale, that's what it's all about.

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