kikiandkyle Posted 28 Oct 2013 , 4:45pm
post #1 of

This article does a great job of explaining why you shouldn't be giving away free cake, and what to say when you are asked to. 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/27/opinion/sunday/slaves-of-the-internet-unite.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&smid=tw-share

58 replies
Rosie93095 Posted 28 Oct 2013 , 4:49pm
post #2 of

Excellent!

liz at sugar Posted 28 Oct 2013 , 5:10pm
post #3 of

AThat is priceless! Hope he got paid to write it!

Liz

jason_kraft Posted 28 Oct 2013 , 5:31pm
post #4 of

AYou mean long hours and intangible benefits is not a viable business model? :D

DeliciousDesserts Posted 28 Oct 2013 , 6:30pm
post #5 of

AVery well written

embersmom Posted 28 Oct 2013 , 7:29pm
post #6 of

Somebody posted the link to that article on my FB feed yesterday.  I was in a FB conversation earlier with a cookie artist who had nothing but praise for it  :)y

 

I also have a lot of friends who write.  HuffPo reposts some of their blog posts on occasion, but doesn't pay them for it.  In the course of discussion I discovered that HuffPo isn't the only site that does that; consequently, the issue is huge in their community.  I related some of the issues we have with it.  A graphic artist and a musician also chimed in (with them "crowdfunding" is the the equivalent of giving away their work for free).  It's a huge, huge issue not just with us, but with all artists/craftspeople.

cakestomuch Posted 29 Oct 2013 , 3:39pm
post #7 of

A

Original message sent by kikiandkyle

This article does a great job of explaining why you shouldn't be giving away free cake, and what to say when you are asked to. 

[URL=http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/27/opinion/sunday/slaves-of-the-internet-unite.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&smid=tw-share]http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/27/opinion/sunday/slaves-of-the-internet-unite.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&smid=tw-share[/URL]

Well written. Knowing me I would probably add at the end "When everyone else (or you) works for free then I might also." Probably unprofessional, but I don't think I would ever hear from them again. :grin:

ellavanilla Posted 29 Oct 2013 , 7:00pm
post #8 of

my absolute favorite was a real estate agent who was having a birthday party. she pointed out how many fab people would be at her event and what great exposure it would be (presumably because she was so fab). I wish it had occurred to me, at the time, to ask for her to represent me in a house sale without paying her a commission. 

 

I also wonder who thinks that anyone at a charity event uses a vendor because they have made a donation to the cause? I even doubt that anyone mentions who made the free cake. 

Psyched baker Posted 29 Oct 2013 , 7:28pm
post #9 of

AThanks for sharing this. I copied his boiler plate to have it on hand :) stay strong everyone!

MBalaska Posted 29 Oct 2013 , 7:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellavanilla 
 

my absolute favorite was a real estate agent who was having a birthday party. she pointed out how many fab people would be at her event and what great exposure it would be (presumably because she was so fab). I wish it had occurred to me, at the time, to ask for her to represent me in a house sale without paying her a commission. 

 

I also wonder who thinks that anyone at a charity event uses a vendor because they have made a donation to the cause? I even doubt that anyone mentions who made the free cake. 

bingo ellavanilla   your are spot on.   Learn How To Say NO.

 

ps: IMO There are some truths in the article, but I thought the writer sounded like a whiney welfare brat living in his parents basement.

 

He does not understand nor accept that writers like Steven King or J.K. Rowling make a billlions$$$$ cause people want to read what they have written.  Brad Pitt and Sandra Bullock command millions in fees cause people want to see them perform.

 

There is a HUGE difference between bakers and writers.  He can pick up his computer and write for a thousand years and it doesn't cost him more than Pennies.  He can sit on the bench in a coffee house sipping latte like a bum and 'creatively write.'

 

you have to put out a tremendous amount of  MONEY, as well as creative effort. You're humping in a kitchen until 2 in the morning and caring for your family, or cleaning up your shop after a days work.

meanwhile he's simpering about the horrible successful 'capitalists' ruining his life. Somebody is putting a roof over his head, putting food into his mouth, and paying his internet bill. some damnable successful capitalist artist is working to make that happen, maybe even a tax paying writer, actor, bakery owner or pastry chef.

jason_kraft Posted 29 Oct 2013 , 7:57pm

A

Original message sent by MBalaska

There is a HUGE difference between bakers and writers.  He can pick up his computer and write for a thousand years and it doesn't cost him more than Pennies.  He can sit on the bench in a coffee house sipping latte like a bum and 'creatively write.'

you have to put out a tremendous amount of  [B]MONEY[/B], as well as creative effort. You're humping in a kitchen until 2 in the morning and caring for your family, or cleaning up your shop after a days work.

Whereas being able to earn a living as a writer requires no money or creative effort?

Godot Posted 29 Oct 2013 , 8:12pm

AGeez looeez alaska whatever your name is- what a crappy-@$$, small-minded way to completely invalidate someone else's creative work.

Walk a mile in someone else's shoes and it'll give you a much-needed perspective on the situations of others who also have creative jobs.

You think writing is so easy? Well let's see you do it then. I mean, anyone can sit at the coffee house sll day with a pen, a pad and a latte in front of them. A painter? No problem! Anyone can buy brushes and canvas and paints. Cake decorator? Evrn easier (and cheaper)!! Cake mixes and canned frosting are chesp at Wsl-mart. You know how pissy you get when someone complains about cake prices and how they can get that same cake for 19.99 st the grocery store.

MimiFix Posted 29 Oct 2013 , 9:59pm

In the same way that we talk about educating our cake customers, we could be trying to educate people about writers. There was a recent thread where posters said how much money authors make. Not!  

 

For the most part, writers come up with ideas, spend hours and hours and more damn hours, writing revising revising editing writing and writing more. We are paid nothing until our work is published. And payment is usually less than $1 per book sold. (I'll skip the part about people just getting a book from the library or writing nasty book reviews.)  

 

In the meantime, most writers work at crappy part time jobs to pay their bills. I don't have parents with a basement, I have a family and a mortgage and a crappy part time job to supplement my real job, which is helping people create an income. Sorry MB, I wasn't directing this at you, I was just explaining the realities of the writers' life. 

MBalaska Posted 29 Oct 2013 , 11:08pm

absolutely true MimiFix:

IMO the work you put into your books has paid off !!  I have proudly  validated your writing by purchasing your book. It is packed with good info.

 

Mimi Fix - Your book is on my book shelf with Martha Stewart, Rose Berenbaum, Collette Peters, Sylvia Weinstock, Alan Dunn etc.

 

I put my money where my mouth is and I support baking/decorating talent.  By purchasing  peoples books, dvds, magazines, and online courses is my way of rewarding them for the hard work and value they put into their creations.

 

I would pay to go to your classes or shop in your bakery, I would not pay to buy the other article writers words. and I apologize to you for my insensitivity.

jason_kraft Posted 29 Oct 2013 , 11:14pm

A

Original message sent by MBalaska

I [I]would[/I] pay to go to your classes or shop in your bakery, I would not pay to buy the other article writers words.

You already paid for the article writer's words by clicking the link and giving the NY Times additional ad impressions.

embersmom Posted 29 Oct 2013 , 11:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason_kraft 


You already paid for the article writer's words by clicking the link and giving the NY Times additional ad impressions.


And it's very very very difficult to be published in the NY Times, btw.  I have a friend who circulates any number of essays between them and several other national publications at any time.  She hasn't hit it yet, but I so admire her determination.  I also think it's one of the few venues that actually pays.

embersmom Posted 29 Oct 2013 , 11:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godot 

Geez looeez alaska whatever your name is- what a crappy-@$$, small-minded way to completely invalidate someone else's creative work.

Walk a mile in someone else's shoes and it'll give you a much-needed perspective on the situations of others who also have creative jobs.

You think writing is so easy? Well let's see you do it then. I mean, anyone can sit at the coffee house sll day with a pen, a pad and a latte in front of them. A painter? No problem! Anyone can buy brushes and canvas and paints. Cake decorator? Evrn easier (and cheaper)!! Cake mixes and canned frosting are chesp at Wsl-mart. You know how pissy you get when someone complains about cake prices and how they can get that same cake for 19.99 st the grocery store.

 

Very well put :nodding:

MimiFix Posted 29 Oct 2013 , 11:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by embersmom   And it's very very very difficult to be published in the NY Times, btw.  I have a friend who circulates any number of essays between them and several other national publications at any time.  She hasn't hit it yet, but I so admire her determination.  I also think it's one of the few venues that actually pays.

 

Uh, no, the NY Times, as with most newspapers, has been drastically cutting staff for several years. PAID freelance work is almost nonexistent. FREE work is accepted but only if it meets the high standards of the newspaper. I hope your friend knows this.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft   You already paid for the article writer's words by clicking the link and giving the NY Times additional ad impressions.

 

Jason, Jason, Jason, that was an opinion piece. NOT PAID. Regardless, any click-through income goes to the NYT and not to the writer. 

jason_kraft Posted 30 Oct 2013 , 12:04am

A

Original message sent by MimiFix

Jason, Jason, Jason, that was an opinion piece. NOT PAID. Regardless, any click-through income goes to the NYT and not to the writer. 

The writer is paid in exposure, as discussed in the article. The newspaper monitors ad impressions and is more likely to publish pieces from an author that has made the newspaper more money in the past.

MimiFix Posted 30 Oct 2013 , 12:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft 


The writer is paid in exposure, as discussed in the article. The newspaper monitors ad impressions and is more likely to publish pieces from an author that has made the newspaper more money in the past.

 

You may have read that article, but I don't think you understood what the author was saying. And I'm not surprised.

MimiFix Posted 30 Oct 2013 , 12:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MBalaska 
 

absolutely true MimiFix:

IMO the work you put into your books has paid off !!  I have proudly  validated your writing by purchasing your book. It is packed with good info.

 

Mimi Fix - Your book is on my book shelf with Martha Stewart, Rose Berenbaum, Collette Peters, Sylvia Weinstock, Alan Dunn etc.

 

I put my money where my mouth is and I support baking/decorating talent.  By purchasing  peoples books, dvds, magazines, and online courses is my way of rewarding them for the hard work and value they put into their creations.

 

I would pay to go to your classes or shop in your bakery, I would not pay to buy the other article writers words. and I apologize to you for my insensitivity.

 

Thank you, MB. I sincerely appreciate your support. And no need to apologize. We are all allowed to have an opinion. Even those who believe they're the only ones with a valid opinion.

jason_kraft Posted 30 Oct 2013 , 12:16am

A

Original message sent by MimiFix

You may have read that article, but I don't think you understood what the author was saying.

I believe I did understand what the author was saying, but that doesn't change the fact that the author chose to communicate his message via an article he was not compensated for. This could have been purposeful irony, or simply calculated to spread this particular message as widely as possible.

Can you clarify what you think I missed?

LoveMeSomeCake615 Posted 30 Oct 2013 , 12:24am

Yeesh. It's so catty on cc these days. :roll:

 

I just think that any artist or creative person should not try to compare or belittle another artist's work and say what they do is harder/more time consuming/more expensive/requires more talent than any other type of art. Not everyone can write, not everyone can decorate cakes, not everyone can be a photographer- each takes a different skill set, and unless you've been there, done that, you really have no idea what all goes in to their particular profession. The point is, we as artists (no matter what kind of art we do) should not be expected to give away our talent, time, blood, sweat, and tears for free, and asking us to do so is saying that our skill isn't worth anything. If it's not worth it to someone to pay me to do a cake, fine, they can go elsewhere. And I'll wait for someone who does value my work, thank ya very much. 

 

If he sounds whiny, it's probably because he's been asked for freebies so many times that he's completely lost patience for it. I know the feeling. :???:

MimiFix Posted 30 Oct 2013 , 12:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft 

Can you clarify what you think I missed?

 

Sometimes people do things to educate others, even when there is no monetary benefit. Sometimes they simply act out of frustration because there is no monetary benefit. 

DeliciousDesserts Posted 30 Oct 2013 , 12:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ellavanilla 
 

 

 

I also wonder who thinks that anyone at a charity event uses a vendor because they have made a donation to the cause? I even doubt that anyone mentions who made the free cake. 

 

 

No one.  I do one for the Pink Tie Gala (fundraiser for Susan G. Komen Foundation) every year.  I've never had anyone call me saying they found me from the event.  Ever.  

embersmom Posted 30 Oct 2013 , 12:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MimiFix 
 

 

Uh, no, the NY Times, as with most newspapers, has been drastically cutting staff for several years. PAID freelance work is almost nonexistent. FREE work is accepted but only if it meets the high standards of the newspaper. I hope your friend knows this.

 

 

Jason, Jason, Jason, that was an opinion piece. NOT PAID. Regardless, any click-through income goes to the NYT and not to the writer. 


I don't know if she knows it or not.  I'm not surprised if they're not paid, to be honest, but if one is going to write something for free, the NY Times is a pretty prestigious feather in one's cap!

cakesbycathy Posted 30 Oct 2013 , 12:59am

I have stopped donating cakes for the same reason.  I get NO business from it.  Now I will only donate $25 gift certificates applicable for cakes only ( I also sell cookies, cupcakes and cake bites).  I have a $50 minimum so at least my costs will be covered.  Half the time no one redeems the gift certificates before they expire (I put a 6 month expiration on there).

costumeczar Posted 30 Oct 2013 , 1:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason_kraft 


The writer is paid in exposure, as discussed in the article. The newspaper monitors ad impressions and is more likely to publish pieces from an author that has made the newspaper more money in the past.

Right, more likely to get other non-paying articles published. Like when they tell me that the exposure I'll get from making a free cake will get me requests...Yes, from other people who want free cakes.

 

My cousin is a published novelist and freelance author and she's been dealing with people wanting to pay authors next to nothing for years.

MimiFix Posted 30 Oct 2013 , 1:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft 

The writer is paid in exposure, as discussed in the article. The newspaper monitors ad impressions and is more likely to publish pieces from an author that has made the newspaper more money in the past.

 

Read it again. Exposure does not pay the rent. Exposure only helps if all you want is more exposure.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar 
 

Right, more likely to get other non-paying articles published. Like when they tell me that the exposure I'll get from making a free cake will get me requests...Yes, from other people who want free cakes.

 

My cousin is a published novelist and freelance author and she's been dealing with people wanting to pay authors next to nothing for years.

 

Exactly. At least someone in this conversation can read.

MimiFix Posted 30 Oct 2013 , 1:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft 

You mean long hours and intangible benefits is not a viable business model? icon_biggrin.gif

 

Maybe you should offer to write his business plan. Free, of course.

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