What Do You Put Between Layers And Crumb Coat Under Fondant?

Decorating By kitchenchick Updated 30 Jan 2014 , 12:28pm by cakebaby2

kitchenchick Posted 1 Oct 2013 , 4:59pm
post #1 of 22

AI'm making my first tiered cake. (12"&8") I've done fondant cakes before and had issues with the fondant sliding down the sides of the cake. Someone told me it was because I used all butter buttercream icing. (Which I love the taste of!) so the last fondant covered cake I made, I kept in the fridge until party time. However, this time it will be about 3 hours between when I leave my house with the cake and when it's served. Someone told me to use an all-shortening buttercream w/artifical butter-vanilla flavor, and not to refrigerate the cake. I did a test run and I don't like the taste AT ALL. And I'm pretty scared of leaving the cake out- how far in advance can you do the cake then? I make my own marshmallow fondant. Any help or advice would be much appreciated!!

21 replies
JaeRodriguez Posted 1 Oct 2013 , 5:14pm
post #2 of 22

AI can tell you for sure that it isn't your all butter buttercream that is the problem. A ton of bakers use all butter BC under their fondant.

How thick is your BC under your fondant? I have never used marshmallow fondant so I can't help there, but if your BC is to thick that may be a reason the fondant is sliding.

ETA: my cakes are finished a day before and boxed up ready to go. I don't refrigerate mine.

cupcakemaker Posted 1 Oct 2013 , 5:23pm
post #3 of 22

AHow does fondant slide off a cake?

JaeRodriguez Posted 1 Oct 2013 , 5:28pm
post #4 of 22

AMaybe her cake is settling and so her fondant is bunching, which looks like sliding? Kitchenchick- do you have a picture? Also, are you letting your cake settle before you cover with fondant?

kitchenchick Posted 1 Oct 2013 , 5:44pm
post #5 of 22

AThe BC between the cake layers and on the crumb coat gets soft and oozes out from under the fondant, creating a sliding effect where the fondant bunches up at the bottom. It does not happen when I keep my cake refrigerated because my icing stays hard. But when I leave it out to room temp, it softens and the fondant slides down the side if the cake, so it's def the buttercream. (When I've ordered cakes from professional bakeries in the past, they we told me if you order buttercream, the cake must be keep refrigerated, so I know its common.) So I'm wondering what others use as an icing under fondant that will be stable at room temp.

kitchenchick Posted 1 Oct 2013 , 5:46pm
post #6 of 22

ABy settling, do you mean letting the cake sit w/crumb coat for a day before covering in fondant? If so, yes.

JaeRodriguez Posted 1 Oct 2013 , 5:51pm
post #7 of 22

AIf you're letting it sit in the refrigerator it isn't going to settle. It needs to sit at room temp, or you can go Leahs route and use a heavy book/tile on top of the cake to speed up the process.

Sounds like your buttercream needs to be stiffer if it isn't a cake settling problem. But no, if you're using an all butter american buttercream it doesn't have to stay in the fridge. If you're using a meringue BC it does, but I assume you were using american since you're subbing with shortening.

CakeChemistry Posted 1 Oct 2013 , 6:14pm
post #8 of 22

AI buttercream between layers and create a dam with ganache, them ganache the sides and top. This should contain your bc and protect it from heat?

kitchenchick Posted 1 Oct 2013 , 7:01pm
post #9 of 22


Original message sent by JaeRodriguez

Sounds like your buttercream needs to be stiffer if it isn't a cake settling problem.

Thank you so much for the advice. Would you mind sharing your BC recipe that you don't refrigerate?

What's the timeline if you're not refrigerating? Party's on Sunday. Cakes are in the freezer now. Thaw and assemble layers on Thursday, let settle overnight; Crumb coat & fondant on Friday; Stack cake tiers & dowel, small fondant/gumpaste/icing details & box on Saturday??

JaeRodriguez Posted 1 Oct 2013 , 7:14pm
post #10 of 22

AMy recipe is butter, powdered sugar, heavy cream, and vanilla. I actually got it off of CC's recipe pages but I can't remember the title or author at the moment, sorry! It's just your basic AMBC!

I would thaw, and then ice and crumb coat/let settle/fondant all on Friday. I use the heavy tile settle method and I leave it on for an hour or so. If you want to break it up you can start Thursday but crumb coat it Thursday, you don't want to leave a naked cake out because it will dry out. Fondant Friday, stack and detail Saturday and be ready to go Sunday.

cupcakemaker Posted 1 Oct 2013 , 7:52pm
post #11 of 22

ASounds like too much icing. I never refrigerate and use 2:1 icing sugar to butter.

BatterUpCake Posted 1 Oct 2013 , 7:57pm
post #12 of 22

The sugar is what makes it stiffer so add more sugar. Does it crust when you leave it sitting out? Also when I used to use ABC I used 1/2 shortening 1/2 butter and real vanilla extract for flavoring. Try the Buttercream Dream recipe on here. It's good (as far as ABC goes)

CakeRae80 Posted 1 Oct 2013 , 8:09pm
post #13 of 22

I've used really thin buttercream (1/2 crisco, 1/2 butter) under mine and I've never had a sliding problem.  I do the filling, then the crumb coat, make sure to take off all the excess and then pop it in the fridge for at least a half hour.  Then I put my MMF on it.  Works fine, and I don't have to put it back in the fridge.

kitchenchick Posted 5 Oct 2013 , 8:59pm
post #14 of 22

AThank you SO much for all your advice! This is the biggest cake I've ever made. I ended up using the Buttercream Dream recipe, and did not refrigerate. I let the cakes settle, do[IMG][IMG]http://cakecentral.com/content/type/61/id/3114479/width/200/height/400[/IMG][/IMG]weled, etc. I still have some bulging issues- maybe I'm using too much frosting between the layers? I tried to spread it thinner than I usually do, but oh well.

BatterUpCake Posted 5 Oct 2013 , 10:15pm
post #16 of 22

That is a really cute cake!

kitchenchick Posted 5 Oct 2013 , 10:24pm
post #17 of 22

AThank you! It's for my father's surprise 70th birthday party. Overall, I'm pleased with how it turned out, but of course, I see all the flaws.... Ugh. I just want perfect fondant! :)

JaeRodriguez Posted 8 Oct 2013 , 1:58pm
post #18 of 22

That looks good kitchenchick! Glad it turned out well! 

johnbailey64 Posted 8 Oct 2013 , 3:53pm
post #19 of 22

It turned out cute! I have found that I need to let the cake settle overnight -with something with a little weight on top of it - with the filling and crumbcoat to prevent bulging, after it sets, I can remove any excess. Keep the buttercream coat on the outside very smooth and pretty thin to help prevent sliding.

cupncakes35 Posted 10 Jan 2014 , 4:38pm
post #20 of 22

AI use to have the same issue. At first I thouht it was my fondant, but then I read somewhere to let the cakes settle and put something with weight on top. And it has worked out perfect for me. I also use a all butter receipe for my frosting to and love it.

CakeRae80 Posted 14 Jan 2014 , 2:11am
post #21 of 22

ALooks great!

cakebaby2 Posted 30 Jan 2014 , 12:28pm
post #22 of 22

Very pretty cake anyway, love the scene 

Quote by @%username% on %date%