Nicki161 Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 8:17am
post #1 of

AI've been asked to do a 18th birthday cake next week for a family friend after looking at sizes of cakes with her she has chosen a large cake as wants it to cut for about 60-70 people so I'm doing a 12" x 18" corset cake in fondant , sponge two layers , I worked out my costs and think about 5 hours work time at half my normal wage hour and I get it to £70 that covers everything half my normal way, electric , start to finish on cake , board , ingredients etc , so when I told her she nearly fell over with shock :-( she said maybe one fro A supermarket will be better !!, I couldn't speak I was so upset I wouldn't mind but with everything else she has gone over board !! So why go cheap on the cake ! I think she was expecting me do it at just the ingredient price , my husband says don't start explaining your costs to her it is what it is,, I feel full of guilt now like I have over charged , so this morning I got the local paper out and rang round 4 home bakers they quoted from £90- £120 as I sent images so they could see full detail , have I over charged ? Advise please should I not have charged for my wage ? Thank you That's what I'm planning to do if she still wants it [IMG]http://cakecentral.com/content/type/61/id/3107153/width/200/height/400[/IMG]

67 replies
cupcakemaker Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 8:25am
post #2 of

AOf course you haven't overcharged but if she doesn't want to pay move on. No point stressing.

CakeChemistry Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 8:39am
post #3 of

AAbsolutely not this is more than reasonable, I am a little bit soft with my friends sometimes and end up out of pocket. Would they go to work for half their hourly rate? Wait for her to broach it with you, don't explain yourself or your quoting as you have given her mates rates in good faith according to the costs and labour it will entail for you. She should trust and respect this. And if she wants a supermarket cake then let her go for it, they are bloody horrible. Don't worry about it, if she is one of those friends that whinges to other friends, you will find that they put her in her place. My friends get £200 cakes very cheap but still give me what I quote and bring me flowers and cards etc. if she doesn't value your work she doesn't deserve your cake, friend or not!!!! If it's going to cause you major stress (I used to get really anxious about my friends) write her a list of everything you need that she would have to go and buy individually that you need to complete this cake (all the basics plus varying colours, dusts, tylo, food gloves for colour mixing, boxes of baking soda, boards, boxes, dowels, list every single little thing however incidental that are usually in your overhead costs etc), give her a list of websites and shops she needs to order them from and drive around to, tell her on top of this it will take 6 hours and your happy to work for 50% your normal wage which is £x and when she can pick it up. She might start to respect the process as well as your skill a little bit then x x x x x x x x

Nicki161 Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 8:40am
post #4 of

AThank you for replying it was just her reaction that shocked me, I thought I was doing it at a good price but she thought I was ripping her off :-(

cupcakemaker Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 8:42am
post #5 of

ABecause joe blogs has no idea what's involved in making a take!

Relznik Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 8:46am
post #6 of

No, you have given her a REALLY good price.  If she wants supermarket cake, let her!  Some people just don't 'get it'.  They'll never be the right customer for you (even if they are a friend!!!)

 

But as a home-based cake business, it's really upsetting that you posed as a potential customer to four bakers, just to validate your quote.

 

 

Almost all my cakes are custom-made - so I will take the time to work out what sized cakes are needed for the portions required, work out the labour, ingredients and other costs involved and then I will get back to the customer with a price.  I know not every enquiry I get will result in an order, but I'd be upset to think that people were phoning me just to see if they were charging correctly!!!

 

 

 

 

Nicki161 Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 9:10am
post #7 of

ABig thank you cake chemistry , I would bend over backwards for friends but it doesn't always turn out the same if it was the other way round , she and her husband own there own company so I think she's aware of costs life's costs, love the idea of giving her a list That would be funny as think most people think its just flour eggs,Butter and sugar u need to make a cake Many thanks :-)

Nicki161 Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 9:24am
post #8 of

ARelznic thank you for your comment, I didn't pose as a potential client ! ,I work for a large company that uses food company's for corporate events when we put food on for customers and with me speaking to them a lot for work have become good friends with them and they no I do cakes for friends and family only ! For work I always put the business there way we always share cake tips ( not that I have many lol ) but I give them a lot if business and as a business I recommend them , so no one was harmed or affended I was straight with them just to ask what they would charge , infact we use 8 local people out the phone book , as our orders are so big sometimes we can't always give much notice , but the 4 that can ways do our orders last minute u I asked , no one person home bakers were asked I wouldn't do that I'm always upfront and honest , wear my heart on my sleeve to much , sorry that u thought that

Nicki161 Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 9:34am
post #9 of

AJust realised I put 4 home bakers doh ment none home bakers so I see the reason for your comment I do apologise,

105sruss Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 9:51am

Unfortunately friends and family have a weird idea that because the cake is "Home made" it should be cheaper than shops. Yes we have little overheads compared to a shop, but we don't get our ingredients as cheaply as shops do because they order in high bulk. Also, quite often, a home baker uses the best of ingredients, where many shops don't. For instance, how many shops put brandy in, and brandy feed fruit cakes whilst the are maturing? My guess is not many as they can't afford the time and space to do this. Also many shops use almond flavoured paste, based on semolina instead of marzipan. All of these things make a lot of difference when it comes to pricing. Then, of course, comes the individuality, they are not just picking a cake from a picture in a shop book, they are getting an exclusive, so NO you are NOT overcharging. Unfortunately, the same problems occur whatever you make, be it cakes, sweaters, toys or whatever, they just want to pay for ingredients/materials.

Nicki161 Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 10:13am

A105sruss thank you for taking the time in replying , your points are very true, my friend who has a local bakery in town did state that all there sponges come in ready made and are box cakes and they are normally made with cheaper ingredient , I did ring and put a food order in with her just and she said funny enough I've had a phone call from a lady asking about a corset cake I quoted £120 so hopefully that was Sharon my friends and he makes her realise not a rip off , at lot of love goes into home baking I would never give some thing I'm not 100% with even if I had to stay up all night and re do it, thank you once again hopefully it will go to the back of my mind soon just don't like the thought of upsetting anyone :-) Many thanks

Relznik Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 10:31am

Oh, I see...

 

When you said you called 4 bakers out of the local paper, you can see why I thought what I did.... :?

Nicki161 Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 10:45am

AIt was easier to say that as that's where they advertise daily as most posts have been American That I have read and understand they have different terms didn't think people would understand if I put my local chat wins etc I take full blame for the blimp I made , I have apologised for my error ,

Claire138 Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 11:45am

Unfortunately as others have said, home baker equals I'm your friend so don't expect to pay much or at all. We all run into this & in my experience you truly get to know who your friends are especially once you start becoming more successful. I've had support from people I least expected to and yet had a couple of what I thought were really good friends be very blah and even bad mouthing my cakes yet have no shame to ask me to make a free one for them.

Your price is perfectly reasonable. I always wonder what would happen if I went into my local supermarket and started to bargain with them? Can you imagine? Yes, I'll buy these tomatoes but bc you get them so cheap bc you bulk order so therefore you cut down on all your costs can you give them to me at a better price?:D

Nicki161 Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 12:33pm

ALol that made me giggle very true thank you for replying , I'm going stick to £70 order it or not get me lol x

cakealicious7 Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 4:13pm

AJust how much did she want to pay you????

therealmrsriley Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 4:29pm

Your quote was beyond reasonable for something that detailed. You probably would have lost money or really earned no profit on this one so don't look at it as a loss. I think we've all been there with friends and family that feel they have a right to your goods for practically nothing. Now that I'm in business, I don't want anything from friends for free or for a discount anymore. I just see things differently now. Stick to your guns!

Relznik Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 4:36pm

Definitely stick to your price...  in fact, I'd have told her "I'd usually charge £100, but I can do it for you for £70"

 

Let her KNOW that's a good price.

 

:D

howsweet Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 5:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicki161 

Thank you for replying it was just her reaction that shocked me, I thought I was doing it at a good price but she thought I was ripping her off icon_sad.gif

This is why friends shouldn't sell cake to friends. Everyone seems to know that going into business with a friend is asking for problems, but hardly anyone applies this to cake. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relznik 
 

No, you have given her a REALLY good price.  If she wants supermarket cake, let her!  Some people just don't 'get it'.  They'll never be the right customer for you (even if they are a friend!!!)

 

But as a home-based cake business, it's really upsetting that you posed as a potential customer to four bakers, just to validate your quote.

 

 

Almost all my cakes are custom-made - so I will take the time to work out what sized cakes are needed for the portions required, work out the labour, ingredients and other costs involved and then I will get back to the customer with a price.  I know not every enquiry I get will result in an order, but I'd be upset to think that people were phoning me just to see if they were charging correctly!!!

 

 

 

 

 

Really upsetting? Have you had someone come back after they've taken a ton of your time and say, 'I really want to go with you, but only if you will do it for half your quote because that's what miss undercharging homebaker down the street is going to charge me?'.

 

I admit, I hate quoting out complicated cakes. I have 3 hours of emails I should be doing right now.  But I am more than willing to give quotes to homebakers acting like a customer.  As long as they don't get all silly about creating a time consuming cover.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicki161 

Just realised I put 4 home bakers doh ment none home bakers so I see the reason for your comment I do apologise,

I'm sorry, I couldn't understand that, but if you said you called real bakeries instead of home bakers, that was definitely who to call, because the typical homebaker doesn't know what her product is worth.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by 105srus
 

Unfortunately friends and family have a weird idea that because the cake is "Home made" it should be cheaper than shops. Yes we have little overheads compared to a shop, but we don't get our ingredients as cheaply as shops do because they order in high bulk. Also, quite often, a home baker uses the best of ingredients, where many shops don't. For instance, how many shops put brandy in, and brandy feed fruit cakes whilst the are maturing? My guess is not many as they can't afford the time and space to do this. Also many shops use almond flavoured paste, based on semolina instead of marzipan. All of these things make a lot of difference when it comes to pricing. Then, of course, comes the individuality, they are not just picking a cake from a picture in a shop book, they are getting an exclusive, so NO you are NOT overcharging. Unfortunately, the same problems occur whatever you make, be it cakes, sweaters, toys or whatever, they just want to pay for ingredients/materials.

It's not just friends and family, it's everyone. It's partly because they assume the lower overhead thing and partly because that's what they've been taught by home bakers who are too afraid to charge what they're worth or too clueless to know what they're worth. If a person is too afraid to charge a fair amount, then that person has no business playing at business, because that's all it is. And it messes up everyone else who's taking their business seriously.

 

A homebaker should charge in line with what a storefront bakery would charge. That's the fair thing to do.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relznik 
 

Definitely stick to your price...  in fact, I'd have told her "I'd usually charge £100, but I can do it for you for £70"

 

Let her KNOW that's a good price.

 

Definitely let her know what a bargain she's getting.

Nicki161 Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 5:14pm

AShe wanted to pay no more than £30 cakealicious7 as she said she could get one for ten pound at morrisons , lol thanks for your reply

howsweet Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 5:15pm

And I'd not be doing that cake for less than $350, which is $219 British pounds

Nicki161 Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 5:19pm

AGreat idea relznic I'll take comment on board and use it

Many thanks :-)

Nicki161 Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 5:28pm

AThank you howsweet on replying lots of quotes and points to think about , I only started with friends and family as they tried my cakes when I was learning and then they tell people who ask if ill do them a cake, I do no friends and family expect things for nothing at time , I don't advertise and I'm not on Facebook so it is just word of mouth I can't do it full time as I hold down two part time jobs and have a young family so it was more of a enjoyable hobby that I didn't want costing me , thank you I will take on everyone's comments , hope I haven't upset or affended anyone otherwise I wouldn't of posted ,I just feel £70 was a fair price for the work time and effort involved

Thanks to all who have replied :-)

kikiandkyle Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 5:38pm

ALet her get a £10 cake at Morrisons, it won't look anything like that. If she's lucky it will be a sheet cake with some monkey iced corset shape on there, and she can spend all night explaining what it's supposed to be. Her friends will ask her why she didn't come to you for a cake, and she'll have to say she didn't want to spend the money.

What kind of business is she in?

(I'm not going to go into whether this is really an appropriate cake for a mother to get for her 18 year old daughter 8O!)

cakealicious7 Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 6:01pm

A

Original message sent by Nicki161

She wanted to pay no more than £30 cakealicious7 as she said she could get one for ten pound at morrisons , lol thanks for your reply

£30 pounds!!!!! And how does your cake compare to morrisons?!!! If that was my friend i would be pretty upset, you shouldn't have to justify your costs to her. If she feels your work is not worth ATLEAST £70 pound then she should go elsewhere.

Nicki161 Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 6:09pm

AHi Kikiandkyle she owns a company with her husband that is engineering they do really and employe over 50 people and I no for a fact they do quotes for people as I sometime have to have there children after school as they are out doing quotes :-( so I bet they don't under quote, the morrisons bit made me giggle haha , we haven't even been invited to the party lol she said it was just there child's friends which I can't believe for one minute ,if money was so much of a issue you would keep guests down and I wouldn't be doing a hog roast it would be sandwiches and sausage rolls lol well I'm going give it till 8 then ill have to send a text as tomorrow is my only chance of getting what I need so I could really do with knowing either way , thanks for replying

lindseyjhills Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 6:21pm

A

Original message sent by Nicki161

She wanted to pay no more than £30 cakealicious7 as she said she could get one for ten pound at morrisons , lol thanks for your reply

Morrisons? Pfsh! They don't even rate their own skills enough to make custom cakes for their own parties ;) http://www.cakesbynet.co.uk/blog/2013/03/18/Morrisons-Birthday-Cake.aspx (And I bet they paid more than £10 for that).

anaelisabethlee Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 6:21pm

ADo morrisons even do a corset cake?? Good luck to her! When I looked at hog roasts they were about £600 so she's clearly pushing the boat out! I think it's really mean she hasn't told you for definite and left you hanging... Stand your ground £70 for that is a very decent price.

Nicki161 Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 6:21pm

AMy husband has said that too,I really do think she thinks it's eggs sugar butter and flour that's all I need.i feel like writing a big list then saying buy me this then I'll make your cake she would have a shock I might not have profit but I least my stock level would go up and so would her £70 lol

Nicki161 Posted 24 Sep 2013 , 6:25pm

AThanks for sharing that Lindseyjhills very true :-)

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