Box Mix Or Scratch For Start Up Small Business

Baking By Red Riding Hood Updated 1 Aug 2013 , 3:38am by j92383

carmijok Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 3:27am
post #61 of 113

A

Original message sent by jason_kraft

This is an approximate visual representation of what happens when I attempt to cook or bake:


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!:D. Too funny!

AZCouture Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 3:32am
post #62 of 113

AAh Homer, ye crack me up. Anyone else s****** at the title of the clip?

vgcea Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 3:38am
post #63 of 113

A

Original message sent by AZCouture

Ah Homer, ye crack me up. Anyone else s****** at the title of the clip?

Had to go back and look. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

So where are all the bakers with the licensed, inspected commercial kuches?

[SIZE=2]I suppose the proper plural word is kuchen but that's no fun. [/SIZE]

as you wish Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 11:12am
post #64 of 113

AFunny clip! I love Homer; some of my favourite quotes are from him! I once knew someone who was so bad in the kitchen she actually burned Jell-O.

BatterUpCake Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 11:38am
post #65 of 113

Hmmm...well I am not trying to be evasive I just want them to know I can work with them by immediately addressing that I can work with most food sensitivities. I have never been asked that exact question so perhaps I need to rethink how I WOULD answer. The point I really want to get across is "I hear you have food concerns and I customize my cakes to suit your needs" I don't want to automatically turn a customer off by saying Yes I do use doctored box mixes most of the time....Would this be better?  "I do use boxed mixes for some recipes. If you share your concerns with me I can tailor your cake to suit your needs." Suggestions are welcome....

 

And I NEVER said I would serve a boxed mix to someone who had such a concern. I only do 2-3 cakes a week. This allows me to cater to special needs. That is what my website says, that I cater to the customers needs and every customer is treated as if they are my only one....

texas_mom Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 1:32am
post #66 of 113

I have heard these past three months of wedding cakes that were beautiful but so awful in taste that many of the tiers were not eaten.  They were made from scratch and I guess the experimenting with flavors just did not work...I have always used boxed according to the instructions and people know what to expect as far as texture and taste.  I guess they like them in that I have been baking for 30 years now and I am still very busy.  For me personally it is not so much the cake they want but rather the finished product and how it is going to look as the center piece to their tablescape.

vgcea Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 2:31am
post #67 of 113

AI must add that scratch baking isn't for everyone. It's never just about the recipe. Technique holds about 50% of the success. A well made box cake is better than a poorly made scratch cake any day.

Annabakescakes Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 2:52am
post #68 of 113

You know, I am SO GLAD this thread came back around because I was thinking about something a couple hours after reading this thread, and i was too lazy to go looking for it ;-) 

 

Not to judge, or to call out anyone in particular, but as a blanket statement, if someone tells me they bake from scratch, make all fillings from all natural, organic, top quality ingredients, their European Buttercream is made from free range eggs, and the butter is freshly churned  from Unicorn cream, they were trained by Martha Stewart, and then they tell me about the chemicals in a box mix, and how inferior box mix bakers are since can do it, and i can see a point, and briefly feel inferior, but I disagree. And I respect what they are saying and feeling....... but then tell me they use Satin Ice Fondant*.......... it really tells me they are hypocrites and have absolutely no sense of smell and ZERO taste buds.

 

Satin Ice ingredients are readily available before you ever have to buy it, and anyone can read it is chock full of chemicals, and pretty expensive. You physically have to order it or buy it before you are exposed to it. And after you make the decision, and you get it home, you have you open it before you use it. It stinks. BAD. Like play dough. It makes your hands stink, too. And then it tastes bad, REALLY bad. Like play dough mixed with sugar and rancid grease. So, you cannot be trusted in matters of recipes or flavor.

 

However, I would still love to hear how you made that gum paste orchid, and how to get straight sides, or properly stack for transport, and I'll thoughtfully consider your business advice, and I can laugh with you about a number of things, like "What NOT to say to a baker" and I love to see all the gorgeous faces everyone has!

 

I just know my cake and fondant tastes WAY better than theirs. Regardless of the fact that many of my recipes have a box mix base, I just have a MUCH more refined pallet than them, regardless of what they think about it. 

 

*Satin Ice gum paste is excluded, since it really isn't much of a food item if you are over 9 years old. 

 

YES, you should be able to eat the fondant! 

Annabakescakes Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 2:54am
post #69 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by vgcea 

I must add that scratch baking isn't for everyone. It's never just about the recipe. Technique holds about 50% of the success. A well made box cake is better than a poorly made scratch cake any day.

I could'e summed up my whole speech about the matter with this one sentence! 

jason_kraft Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 5:21am
post #70 of 113

A

Original message sent by Annabakescakes

but then tell me they use Satin Ice Fondant*.......... it really tells me they are hypocrites and have absolutely no sense of smell and ZERO taste buds.

What are the ingredients in the fondant you use? If it contains gelatin, there are quite a few people out there who cannot or will not eat it. Especially when they find out what it is.

It [I]stinks[/I]. BAD. Like play dough. It makes your hands stink, too. And then it tastes bad, [I]REALLY[/I] bad. Like play dough mixed with sugar and rancid grease. So, you cannot be trusted in matters of recipes or flavor.

Thanks for settling this debate. Be sure to let everyone else know that, contrary to popular belief, taste is not subjective and your palate (a pallet is used for stacking merchandise) is the only correct one in the world. :madhatter:

Seriously though, neither my wife nor I think Satin Ice tastes or smells bad. Tying back to the topic of this thread, either making or buying fondant can be the right choice depending on your target market, same as the box vs. mix question.

morganchampagne Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 5:31am
post #71 of 113

A

Original message sent by vgcea

I must add that scratch baking isn't for everyone. It's never just about the recipe. Technique holds about 50% of the success. A well made box cake is better than a poorly made scratch cake any day.

This is is it!! Everybody can't do it. And that's not a bad thing. I've never met a scratch recipe I couldn't conquer. But decorating! Baby that's a different story!! We all have different stengths. If you need the box cake use that bad boy. And don't let ANYBODY tell you anything negative about it.

as you wish Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 5:31am
post #72 of 113

A

Original message sent by Annabakescakes

You know, I am SO GLAD this thread came back around because I was thinking about something a couple hours after reading this thread, and i was too lazy to go looking for it ;-) 

Not to judge, or to call out anyone in particular, but as a blanket statement, if someone tells me they bake from scratch, make all fillings from all natural, organic, top quality ingredients, their European Buttercream is made from free range eggs, and the butter is freshly churned  from Unicorn cream, they were trained by Martha Stewart, and then they tell me about the chemicals in a box mix, and how inferior box mix bakers are since can do it, and i can see a point, and briefly feel inferior, but I disagree. And I respect what they are saying and feeling....... but then tell me they use Satin Ice Fondant*.......... it really tells me they are hypocrites and have absolutely no sense of smell and ZERO taste buds.

Satin Ice ingredients are readily available before you ever have to buy it, and anyone can read it is chock full of chemicals, and pretty expensive. You physically have to order it or buy it before you are exposed to it. And after you make the decision, and you get it home, you have you open it before you use it. It [I]stinks[/I]. BAD. Like play dough. It makes your hands stink, too. And then it tastes bad, [I]REALLY[/I] bad. Like play dough mixed with sugar and rancid grease. So, you cannot be trusted in matters of recipes or flavor.

However, I would still love to hear how you made that gum paste orchid, and how to get straight sides, or properly stack for transport, and I'll thoughtfully consider your business advice, and I can laugh with you about a number of things, like "What NOT to say to a baker" and I love to see all the gorgeous faces everyone has!

I just know my cake and fondant tastes WAY better than theirs. Regardless of the fact that many of my recipes have a box mix base, I just have a MUCH more refined pallet than them, regardless of what they think about it. 

*Satin Ice gum paste is excluded, since it really isn't much of a food item if you are over 9 years old. 

YES, you should be able to eat the fondant! 

Ouch! For something you weren't aiming at anyone in particular that had a pretty sharp point on it!

Lucky6 Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 5:57am
post #73 of 113

A[RIGHT][LEFT][/LEFT]U[/RIGHT]

Original message sent by as you wish

Ouch! For something you weren't aiming at anyone in particular that had a pretty sharp point on it!

And so defensive when (I'm sure she'll correct me if I'm mistaken ) she was quick to criticize those who use shortening based American bc methinks double standard :D

Annabakescakes Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 6:08am
post #74 of 113

A

Original message sent by as you wish

[quote name="Annabakescakes" url="/t/761485/box-mix-or-scratch-for-start-up-small-business/60#post_7423433"]You know, I am SO GLAD this thread came back around because I was thinking about something a couple hours after reading this thread, and i was too lazy to go looking for it ;-) 

Not to judge, or to call out anyone in particular, but as a blanket statement, if someone tells me they bake from scratch, make all fillings from all natural, organic, top quality ingredients, their European Buttercream is made from free range eggs, and the butter is freshly churned  from Unicorn cream, they were trained by Martha Stewart, and then they tell me about the chemicals in a box mix, and how inferior box mix bakers are since can do it, and i can see a point, and briefly feel inferior, but I disagree. And I respect what they are saying and feeling....... but then tell me they use Satin Ice Fondant*.......... it really tells me they are hypocrites and have absolutely no sense of smell and ZERO taste buds.

Satin Ice ingredients are readily available before you ever have to buy it, and anyone can read it is chock full of chemicals, and pretty expensive. You physically have to order it or buy it before you are exposed to it. And after you make the decision, and you get it home, you have you open it before you use it. It [I]stinks[/I]. BAD. Like play dough. It makes your hands stink, too. And then it tastes bad, [I]REALLY[/I] bad. Like play dough mixed with sugar and rancid grease. So, you cannot be trusted in matters of recipes or flavor.

However, I would still love to hear how you made that gum paste orchid, and how to get straight sides, or properly stack for transport, and I'll thoughtfully consider your business advice, and I can laugh with you about a number of things, like "What NOT to say to a baker" and I love to see all the gorgeous faces everyone has!

I just know my cake and fondant tastes WAY better than theirs. Regardless of the fact that many of my recipes have a box mix base, I just have a MUCH more refined pallet than them, regardless of what they think about it. 

*Satin Ice gum paste is excluded, since it really isn't much of a food item if you are over 9 years old. 

YES, you should be able to eat the fondant! 

Ouch! For something you weren't aiming at anyone in particular that had a pretty sharp point on it![/quote]

As a fatty, I take my food very seriously, and there is no room for calories that taste disgusting. This is a way I eliminate recipes when trying new ones. It was actually trial and error.... I just noticed I hate recipes I try from Satin ice users. It is like eating eating what a smoker has prepared. It is always something. Too salty or too bland or covered in pepper. The taste buds are destroyed. This is my experience, and maybe I am not very PC, but it is my opinion. Please don't let it offend you, I really don't mean offense.

Annabakescakes Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 6:43am
post #75 of 113

A

Original message sent by Lucky6

[RIGHT][LEFT][/LEFT]U[/RIGHT][quote name="as you wish" url="/t/761485/box-mix-or-scratch-for-start-up-small-business/60#post_7423485"] Ouch! For something you weren't aiming at anyone in particular that had a pretty sharp point on it!

And so defensive when (I'm sure she'll correct me if I'm mistaken ) she was quick to criticize those who use shortening based American bc methinks double standard :D[/quote]

Annabakescakes Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 6:49am
post #76 of 113

ASory, I can't quote right an reply when I use this phone.

I'm sorry Lucky, but I don't know what you are trying to say, or what you are referring to. If you can try to say it differently, I would be happy to reply.

I do use American buttercream, but I use about 65% butter, and real vanilla and real cream. I also use hi ratio shortening. I have 3 or 4 clients that prefer SMBC

Annabakescakes Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 6:51am
post #77 of 113

ASo i make smbc for them. stupid phone!

AZCouture Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 7:12am
post #78 of 113

AI don't offer anything but SMBC, and never not once had anyone request American style. I can't even work with it, it just doesn't work for me. I love that bulging is not really a problem ever, unless I rushed myself, and bubbles and cake farts are non existent.

morganchampagne Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 7:22am
post #79 of 113

A

Original message sent by AZCouture

I don't offer anything but SMBC, and never not once had anyone request American style. I can't even work with it, it just doesn't work for me. I love that bulging is not really a problem ever, unless I rushed myself, and bubbles and cake farts are non existent.

So bulging isn't a problem with SMBC? It's all I use as well (that and IMBC) and never had bulging and was starting to wonder why it is other people seemed to

Annabakescakes Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 7:31am
post #80 of 113

AI don't get bubbles unless I use fondant over American buttercream, or my cake is too fresh. Never with ganache or smbc. I forget whose smbc recipe I staeted with, but I have made it my own" and really like the taste on chocolate cake, but still prefer my ABC on everything this else. When I have left overs I always include some at tasting, but most prefer my ABC. I find it a lot easier to work with, too. But vastly prefer smbc for textured effects.

I am really adaptable, I use scratch for rich flavors and box foe more delicate flavors, but the Satin Ice is really something else.....just grotesque. I do apologize if my strong words offend, I couldn't sleep last night and finally quit trying at 10 am, after being awake for 24 hours. Finally got 2 hours of sleep at noon. My subtlety meter is broken, doubly because I feel so strongly about it... ;-)

Annabakescakes Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 7:43am
post #81 of 113

AOne more thing I would like to add before I try yet aging to sleep, is that my doubt and fear of Satin Ice users doesn't extend to people who use it know how terrible tastes. The people who say," yeah its readily available and I love its workability, but I always say it tastes bad and recommend peeling it off."

My daughter is 9, and will eat it, but I think she has a crazy palate too. She got into flaming hot Cheetos at her fathers house and at the whole bag when she was only 2. She also likes the day-glow pink generic artificial strawberry milk, and Twinkies. She will even eat gum paste flowers like they are chips, but hates fruit and all vegetables but canned peas and corn on the cob. She hates my chili, too! But I have all the love in the world for her :-)

BatterUpCake Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 12:10pm
post #82 of 113

Cake farts...lol my inner 12 year old rolls on the floor laughing at the word "fart"

Where do I get Unicorn Cream?

 

I just used Satin Ice for the first time. While I don't think it tastes bad, I did not think it was easy to work with. The white was nice and soft but tore easily. The black was gooey and disgusting and stuck to my hands. I bought it for a last minute emergency. Back to MMF for me.

as you wish Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 12:18pm
post #83 of 113

AAnna, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not offended; you amuse me tremendously! I don't have a lot to say about different fondants because there are not many options available where I live. Any recipe for making it myself involves gelatin (Ew, yuck, gross, gross!) and the other options for purchase are Wilton (bleck!), Virgin Ice (also bleck!), some "kiddie approved" multiple-fruit flavoured junk that really, really reminds me of fruit-scented play doh, and a store brand. Given those options, I choose Satin Ice. I buy their "buttercream" flavour, not the vanilla. When I get it, it smells really good. And I don't have a defective nose! If it gets old, yes, it absolutely smells disgusting. I have a container of leftover pieces that have been coloured and worked with for my son to practice with. That container smells unbelievably bad to me! But when it is fresh, it is nice. I don't expect we are going to agree on this. I don't really care; I find the discussion interesting. I have nothing to gain or lose by who likes or doesn't like Satin Ice fondant! I do wonder though, is it possible you have only ever managed to get your hands (and mouth and nose) on old product?

AZCouture Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 1:54pm
post #84 of 113

A

Original message sent by morganchampagne

So bulging isn't a problem with SMBC? It's all I use as well (that and IMBC) and never had bulging and was starting to wonder why it is other people seemed to

I think it's an America BC problem, and it just doesn't happen to meringue users. I mean sure, it can, and it will if I rush, but I can hot scrape it downagain before I put the fondant on, and I'm ok. I think that the other problems occur with American Bc because the cake repels it somehow. I remember the couple of times I did use it, I could peel it off the cake.

vgcea Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 2:02pm
post #85 of 113

A

Original message sent by AZCouture

I think it's an America BC problem, and it just doesn't happen to meringue users. I mean sure, it can, and it will if I rush, but I can hot scrape it downagain before I put the fondant on, and I'm ok. I think that the other problems occur with American Bc because the cake repels it somehow. I remember the couple of times I did use it, I could peel it off the cake.

Well I think your cakes are such uppity snobs for repelling American BC. Hmph!

j92383 Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 2:52pm
post #86 of 113

I personally bake from scratch because that's what I grew up eating and I just can't stand the chemically taste of box mix. If for some reason I buy cake I only purchase from scratch bakers. I just personally have a problem paying some one for a cake mix.

 

It's like going to a fancy pizza place with a brick oven and finding out that they're taking frozen pizzas from the grocery store, adding toppings, and serving it to me. In the end everyone has to do what is best for their business and what appeals to their clients.

jason_kraft Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 3:17pm
post #87 of 113

A

Original message sent by j92383

I personally bake from scratch because that's what I grew up eating and I just can't stand the chemically taste of box mix. If for some reason I buy cake I only purchase from scratch bakers. I just personally have a problem paying some one for a cake mix.

It's like going to a fancy pizza place with a brick oven and finding out that they're taking frozen pizzas from the grocery store, adding toppings, and serving it to me. In the end everyone has to do what is best for their business and what appeals to their clients.

To be fair, there's a difference between making a pizza (or cake) from a mix and reheating a frozen pizza (or cake) someone else has made.

j92383 Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 3:42pm
post #88 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft 


To be fair, there's a difference between making a pizza (or cake) from a mix and reheating a frozen pizza (or cake) someone else has made.

To you there is a difference to me there isn't. If I go to a grocery store I expect cake mix if I go to a custom cake shop I expect my product to be made from scratch. Same thing for pizza If I order domino's or pizza hut I expect that it came from a factory some where put if I go to an artisan pizzeria I expect someone back there to make my pizza from scratch.

You get what you pay for so if I'm paying for custom I expect to get it. Like I said you have to do what appeals to your customer base. Obviously I wouldn't be your customer if you use mixes so my opinion means squat to you. It's simply my opinion. 

jason_kraft Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 4:47pm
post #89 of 113

A

Original message sent by j92383

To you there is a difference to me there isn't. If I go to a grocery store I expect cake mix if I go to a custom cake shop I expect my product to be made from scratch. Same thing for pizza If I order domino's or pizza hut I expect that it came from a factory some where put if I go to an artisan pizzeria I expect someone back there to make my pizza from scratch. You get what you pay for so if I'm paying for custom I expect to get it. Like I said you have to do what appeals to your customer base. Obviously I wouldn't be your customer if you use mixes so my opinion means squat to you. It's simply my opinion. 

I think you are confusing the issue by bringing freezing into this. If you bake a cake from scratch (the ingredients of which come from a factory BTW) and then freeze it, you can thaw it later and the quality will be just as good if not better, assuming the recipe can stand up to freezing of course.

We made our cakes from scratch by necessity, since we had to develop custom recipes for customers with various allergies. However, to save time we put together our own gluten-free mix using rice flour, sorghum flour, tapioca starch, and xanthan gum which we stored in bulk. Do you consider that baking from scratch or from a mix?

I think the real issue is the ingredients used in the recipe, not necessarily where in the supply chain said ingredients are combined or the specific production process being used by the baker.

gatorcake Posted 30 Jul 2013 , 5:15pm
post #90 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by vgcea 

A well made box cake is better than a poorly made scratch cake any day.

 

Why is this supposed to be something that works in favor of those who use box mixes?  It really does not do them much of a favor.  The argument is not scratch is greater than all--that no matter how poor a scratch cake is, it will always better better than a box mix.  Maybe there are some, what were they called, "militant" scratch bakers that will hold this view, but those individuals will just look ridiculous.  

 

A well made box cake is better than a poorly made scratch cake?  And?  Taco Bell is better than burned food from a restaurant that is claiming to serve authentic Mexican cuisine, that means nothing when that restaurant cooks the food perfectly, using the freshest ingredients.  McDonald's apple "pie" will taste better than poorly prepared pies from the local bakery, it is no contest when that bakery bakes their pies using a well made-crust and fresh apples.  

 

The point is this--justifying the quality of a product by comparing it to a poorly prepared product does nothing for those that bake from a box.  Because by not insisting on the quality--that they are as good, if not better, you already concede the point to "militant scratchers" that believe when all else is equal box based cakes (even those that are doctored) are simply inferior.   Thus people who bake from boxes should never endorse this idea because when it comes down to it those arguing that scratch > box are presuming that they are well-prepared not poorly prepared.

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