Box Mix Or Scratch For Start Up Small Business
Baking By Red Riding Hood Updated 1 Aug 2013 , 3:38am by j92383
Why is this supposed to be something that works in favor of those who use box mixes? It really does not do them much of a favor. The argument is not scratch is greater than all--that no matter how poor a scratch cake is, it will always better better than a box mix. Maybe there are some, what were they called, "militant" scratch bakers that will hold this view, but those individuals will just look ridiculous.
A well made box cake is better than a poorly made scratch cake? And? Taco Bell is better than burned food from a restaurant that is claiming to serve authentic Mexican cuisine, that means nothing when that restaurant cooks the food perfectly, using the freshest ingredients. McDonald's apple "pie" will taste better than poorly prepared pies from the local bakery, it is no contest when that bakery bakes their pies using a well made-crust and fresh apples.
The point is this--justifying the quality of a product by comparing it to a poorly prepared product does nothing for those that bake from a box. Because by not insisting on the quality--that they are as good, if not better, you already concede the point to "militant scratchers" that believe when all else is equal box based cakes (even those that are doctored) are simply inferior. Thus people who bake from boxes should never endorse this idea because when it comes down to it those arguing that scratch > box are presuming that they are well-prepared not poorly prepared.
That was...awesome.
Again like I said, I made a grooms cake for a wedding mine was boxed , the wedding cake was scratch. Two of the four tiers were left from the wedding cake because it tasted awful and my cake was completely gone by the end of the day. All I am saying is that my costumers prefer box. There is no right or wrong on how the cake is made as long at the person ordering it is happy.
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Original message sent by gatorcake
Why is this supposed to be something that works in favor of those who use box mixes?
I think the point is that it's easier to get consistent results from a box mix. Baking from scratch requires a different skill set and a deeper understanding of the chemistry behind baking, so it's easier to create a poor quality scratch cake than it is to create a poor quality cake from a box mix (as long as you follow the directions).
On the other hand, this consistency also makes it more difficult to take a box mix cake to the next level and create a truly differentiated product.
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Original message sent by texas_mom
Again like I said, I made a grooms cake for a wedding mine was boxed , the wedding cake was scratch. Two of the four tiers were left from the wedding cake because it tasted awful and my cake was completely gone by the end of the day. All I am saying is that my costumers prefer box. There is no right or wrong on how the cake is made as long at the person ordering it is happy.
The only conclusion you can reliably draw from that anecdote is that your customers don't like awful cake. :D
I think you are confusing the issue by bringing freezing into this. If you bake a cake from scratch (the ingredients of which come from a factory BTW) and then freeze it, you can thaw it later and the quality will be just as good if not better, assuming the recipe can stand up to freezing of course.
We made our cakes from scratch by necessity, since we had to develop custom recipes for customers with various allergies. However, to save time we put together our own gluten-free mix using rice flour, sorghum flour, tapioca starch, and xanthan gum which we stored in bulk. Do you consider that baking from scratch or from a mix?
I think the real issue is the ingredients used in the recipe, not necessarily where in the supply chain said ingredients are combined or the specific production process being used by the baker.
I'm not confusing anything you are the one concentrating on the freezing part. It has no relevance in my example. My point is that you can't buy something already made, alter it and call it custom. It is not in my opinion.
Yes I do consider that scratch baking you still have to develop the recipe know how the ingredients interact with each other, measure etc. Just because you make it in bulk doesn't alter that. You're not opening a box adding vanilla extract or pudding and calling it custom.
As much as I love a good debate I don't consider this back and forth with you to be one. I've stated my opinion. You've stated yours. I won't engage any further.
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Original message sent by j92383
Yes I do consider that scratch baking you still have to develop the recipe know how the ingredients interact with each other, measure etc. Just because you make it in bulk doesn't alter that. You're not opening a box adding vanilla extract or pudding and calling it custom.
Makes sense. For a time we were selling our flour mix (which involves combining four ingredients that have already been processed by someone else), am I correct in assuming that you would consider anyone else who purchased it to be working from a mix? What about if they purchased a recipe that detailed the correct proportions of the four ingredients so they could create the mix themselves?
I have come to the conclusion that for myself I do not care so much for the baking part of the process but rather the decorating and the artistic part of the making of the cake. Muy cake are more about presentation and the wow ! factor and my customers know that and they are satisfied with box mix and the pretty out come of it all.
Anna, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not offended; you amuse me tremendously! I don't have a lot to say about different fondants because there are not many options available where I live. Any recipe for making it myself involves gelatin (Ew, yuck, gross, gross!) and the other options for purchase are Wilton (bleck!), Virgin Ice (also bleck!), some "kiddie approved" multiple-fruit flavoured junk that really, really reminds me of fruit-scented play doh, and a store brand. Given those options, I choose Satin Ice. I buy their "buttercream" flavour, not the vanilla. When I get it, it smells really good. And I don't have a defective nose! If it gets old, yes, it absolutely smells disgusting. I have a container of leftover pieces that have been coloured and worked with for my son to practice with. That container smells unbelievably bad to me! But when it is fresh, it is nice.
I don't expect we are going to agree on this. I don't really care; I find the discussion interesting. I have nothing to gain or lose by who likes or doesn't like Satin Ice fondant! I do wonder though, is it possible you have only ever managed to get your hands (and mouth and nose) on old product?
I think it is very likely I have only tried old product, since I tried some at the bakery I used to work, a friend had some we worked on a cake together with, and she had gotten it on clearance, and I ordered some from the bakery supply I use... But, I can't imagine it being much better, then tasting that bad, when there is no dairy in it... IDK. I have no desire to waste my money on any, ever again, since I had bought a 5 pound bucket for $30 and threw it all away.
I had it at a wedding before, too. NASTY cake, nobody at our table at it, it was from scratch and tasted like flour with a little sugar in it. DRY, and horrible.
AI bake from scratch. I don't like boxed or store-bought cakes. If I were a client, and I paid $800 for a wedding cake, I'd be pretty ticked to learn my cake was made from a box mix. Baking is an art, and I think it's an art worth learning if one wants to sell his products in the custom cake business.
I guess I'm a snob because I think buttercream should contain actual butter, too.
today I delivered a cake. I used MacsMom doctored WASC recipe for an orange dreamsicle cake. I am friends with the customers so I stayed awhile. While out of the room I overheard "that is the best cake I have ever tasted" And they LOVED the way it was decorated. So my theory is..you do it your way and I'll do it my way. To each his own...live and let live...there are more important things in life to worry about than how someone else is baking their cakes. I am sure everyone of your cakes are delicious. I wish I could taste them all in one big cupcake food orgy...
I bake from scratch. I don't like boxed or store-bought cakes. If I were a client, and I paid $800 for a wedding cake, I'd be pretty ticked to learn my cake was made from a box mix. Baking is an art, and I think it's an art worth learning if one wants to sell his products in the custom cake business.
I guess I'm a snob because I think buttercream should contain actual butter, too.
I just got my final payment for a $769 cake, and they aren't ticked at all that I use mixes. They were practically licking the plate... Perhaps if they had spent the extra $31 they would angry right?
BUTTERCREAM should have butter in it, all icing doesn't have to, though. Like White Mountain Cream, from Fannie Farmer doesn't have butter in it. It is so light and creamy, and amazing.
I think catering to your customers is pretty important, and mine like my cake. Actually, they LOVE my cake.
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Original message sent by Annabakescakes
I just got my final payment for a $769 cake, and they aren't ticked at all that I use mixes. They were practically licking the plate... Perhaps if they had spent the extra $31 they would angry right?
BUTTERCREAM should have butter in it, all icing doesn't have to, though. Like White Mountain Cream, from Fannie Farmer doesn't have butter in it. It is so light and creamy, and amazing.
I think catering to your customers is pretty important, and mine like my cake. Actually, they LOVE my cake.
I just got my final payment for a $769 cake, and they aren't ticked at all that I use mixes. They were practically licking the plate... Perhaps if they had spent the extra $31 they would angry right?
BUTTERCREAM should have butter in it, all icing doesn't have to, though. Like White Mountain Cream, from Fannie Farmer doesn't have butter in it. It is so light and creamy, and amazing.
I think catering to your customers is pretty important, and mine like my cake. Actually, they LOVE my cake.
I understand where you are coming from. Everyone I bake for I tell them upfront that I use box mixes and they are ok with it. As long as it taste good and especially if it looks good they are satisfied. Like I said before as long as the costumer is happy it is all good. Baking, decorating, etc. I see as an art form and we all have different techniques to express our talents.
WASC stands for "White Almond Sour Cream" it is a doctored boxed cake mix recipe and is a dense but moist cake batter that often used when baking. I used the recipe today. I made leopard printed cupcakes (the prints were inside the cupcake). I could not have done the prints with a thinner batter.
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Original message sent by gatorcake
Why is this supposed to be something that works in favor of those who use box mixes? It really does not do them much of a favor. The argument is not scratch is greater than all--that no matter how poor a scratch cake is, it will always better better than a box mix. Maybe there are some, what were they called, "militant" scratch bakers that will hold this view, but those individuals will just look ridiculous.
A well made box cake is better than a poorly made scratch cake? And? Taco Bell is better than burned food from a restaurant that is claiming to serve authentic Mexican cuisine, that means nothing when that restaurant cooks the food perfectly, using the freshest ingredients. McDonald's apple "pie" will taste better than poorly prepared pies from the local bakery, it is no contest when that bakery bakes their pies using a well made-crust and fresh apples.
The point is this--justifying the quality of a product by comparing it to a poorly prepared product does nothing for those that bake from a box. Because by not insisting on the quality--that they are as good, if not better, you already concede the point to "militant scratchers" that believe when all else is equal box based cakes (even those that are doctored) are simply inferior. Thus people who bake from boxes should never endorse this idea because when it comes down to it those arguing that scratch > box are presuming that they are well-prepared not poorly prepared.
I think you missed my point. I wasn't speaking in favor of either side with that statement. My post came after texas_mom who said her clients thought her scratch cakes were awful (or something to that effect) and she said she would go back to her box mixes. My response pointed out that scratch baking is not for everyone. If box is what you do best, have at it. It'll turn out better than your "awful" scratch cakes.
Here's my point spelled out: Many complain that scratch cakes are inherently dry or awful or this or that. I believe it's because those folks DON'T know how to bake from scratch. As a card-carrying Militant Scratch Baker who not only bakes from scratch but creates and develops great scratch recipes from scratch (and I say this with all humility), I get irritated when scratch cakes get a bad rap because the baker quite simply sucks at scratch baking. So I say if your box cakes are great and your customer loves them, THAT box cake is better than a sorry attempt at scratch baking a.k.a poorly-made scratch cake so stick with the box or learn how to bake from scratch. I hope I've cleared that up well enough.
I think you missed my point. I wasn't speaking in favor of either side with that statement. My post came after texas_mom who said her clients thought her scratch cakes were awful (or something to that effect) and she said she would go back to her box mixes. My response pointed out that scratch baking is not for everyone. If box is what you do best, have at it. It'll turn out better than your "awful" scratch cakes.
Here's my point spelled out: Many complain that scratch cakes are inherently dry or awful or this or that. I believe it's because those folks DON'T know how to bake from scratch. As a card-carrying Militant Scratch Baker who not only bakes from scratch but creates and develops great scratch recipes from scratch (and I say this with all humility), I get irritated when scratch cakes get a bad rap because the baker quite simply sucks at scratch baking. So I say if your box cakes are great and your customer loves them, THAT box cake is better than a sorry attempt at scratch baking a.k.a poorly-made scratch cake so stick with the box or learn how to bake from scratch. I hope I've cleared that up well enough.
You misunderstood what I wrote, what I meant was that someone else baked the wedding cake ( I don't know who and they baked from scratch) I baked the grooms and I used box mixes . I have baked from scratch but the way I see it why do all the work when it has already been done for me.
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Original message sent by texas_mom
I have heard these past three months of wedding cakes that were beautiful but so awful in taste that many of the tiers were not eaten. [B]They were made from scratch and I guess the experimenting with flavors just did not work[/B]...I have always used boxed according to the instructions and people know what to expect as far as texture and taste. I guess they like them in that I have been baking for 30 years now and I am still very busy. For me personally it is not so much the cake they want but rather the finished product and how it is going to look as the center piece to their tablescape.
Please forgive my misinterpretation of your post. I read the bolded and thought you were referring to your work-- I didn't think there was any other way to be privy to this information unless you were the baker yourself. My apologies.
My point still applies though, scratch cakes should not get a bad rap because a person sucks at scratch baking. I'd much rather they stuck with the box rather soiling the impeccable quality and superiority of a well-made scratch cake.
Yes. I said it.
Please forgive my misinterpretation of your post. I read the bolded and thought you were referring to your work-- I didn't think there was any other way to be privy to this information unless you were the baker yourself. My apologies.
My point still applies though, scratch cakes should not get a bad rap because a person sucks at scratch baking. I'd much rather they stuck with the box rather soiling the impeccable quality and superiority of a well-made scratch cake.
Yes. I said it.
LOL I'm glad you said it. I think a lot of us have been beating around the bush so we don't offend cake mix friends.
I think you missed my point. I wasn't speaking in favor of either side with that statement. My post came after texas_mom who said her clients thought her scratch cakes were awful (or something to that effect) and she said she would go back to her box mixes. My response pointed out that scratch baking is not for everyone. If box is what you do best, have at it. It'll turn out better than your "awful" scratch cakes.
Here's my point spelled out: Many complain that scratch cakes are inherently dry or awful or this or that. I believe it's because those folks DON'T know how to bake from scratch. As a card-carrying Militant Scratch Baker who not only bakes from scratch but creates and develops great scratch recipes from scratch (and I say this with all humility), I get irritated when scratch cakes get a bad rap because the baker quite simply sucks at scratch baking. So I say if your box cakes are great and your customer loves them, THAT box cake is better than a sorry attempt at scratch baking a.k.a poorly-made scratch cake so stick with the box or learn how to bake from scratch. I hope I've cleared that up well enough.
Actually I did not miss your point. Your larger point is ultimately irrelevant to what I wanted from your post---which is the line I quoted. Frankly I could have taken it from other threads where this refrain is used in this well-beaten to death debate. My point still stands--there is nothing compelling about the phrase when uttered by someone who believes the superiority of scratch cakes and it should never be endorsed by folks who bake from a box (which has happened on this board).
Another iteration of this mantra is stories like the one told by texas-mom (the scratch cake was bad, they ate mine). Again using stories that yours was better than a poorly prepared product and that somehow proves the quality/value of your product are uncompelling---particularly to folks like yourself who are concerned about scratch bakers who--how did you put it--soil "the impeccable quality and superiority of a well-made scratch cake." Because the unstated of individuals who hold this view is this: if I had made the wedding cake in question guests would have experienced the superiority of an impeccably made scratch cake.
No what are compelling are the stories of those who bake from a box who have placed high in baking competitions (somewhere in one iteration of this interminable debate someone told the story of how they placed second in a high profile competition with reputable judges from the industry) or stories where individuals reputed for having excellent palates comment on how good the extended box cake they just ate. And these stories have been told.
The point still stands you do yourself no favors by comparing your product to poorly prepared products. And box makers should never endorse this phrase if it is uttered by a "militant scratch" baker as frankly it really is not much of a compliment.
Makes sense. For a time we were selling our flour mix (which involves combining four ingredients that have already been processed by someone else), am I correct in assuming that you would consider anyone else who purchased it to be working from a mix? What about if they purchased a recipe that detailed the correct proportions of the four ingredients so they could create the mix themselves?
I know I said I wouldn't engage any further but.. Jason are you really trying to understand my view point or do you just want to debate with me for entertainment? if it's for entertainment I'll gladly oblige but PM me so we don't derail the thread. : )
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Original message sent by gatorcake
Actually I did not miss your point. Your larger point is ultimately irrelevant to what I wanted from your post---which is the line I quoted. Frankly I could have taken it from other threads where this refrain is used in this well-beaten to death debate. My point still stands--there is nothing compelling about the phrase when uttered by someone who believes the superiority of scratch cakes and it should never be endorsed by folks who bake from a box (which has happened on this board).
Another iteration of this mantra is stories like the one told by texas-mom (the scratch cake was bad, they ate mine). Again using stories that yours was better than a poorly prepared product and that somehow proves the quality/value of your product are uncompelling---particularly to folks like yourself who are concerned about scratch bakers who--how did you put it--soil "the impeccable quality and superiority of a well-made scratch cake." Because the unstated of individuals who hold this view is this: if I had made the wedding cake in question guests would have experienced the superiority of an impeccably made scratch cake.
No what are compelling are the stories of those who bake from a box who have placed high in baking competitions (somewhere in one iteration of this interminable debate someone told the story of how they placed second in a high profile competition with reputable judges from the industry) or stories where individuals reputed for having excellent palates comment on how good the extended box cake they just ate. And these stories have been told.
The point still stands you do yourself no favors by comparing your product to poorly prepared products. And box makers should never endorse this phrase if it is uttered by a "militant scratch" baker as frankly it really is not much of a compliment.
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Original message sent by j92383
I know I said I wouldn't engage any further but.. Jason are you really trying to understand my view point or do you just want to debate with me for entertainment? if it's for entertainment I'll gladly oblige but PM me so we don't derail the thread. : )
I am trying to understand your viewpoint.
In that case I would consider following a recipe to be scratch baking. And the flour mix it depends. Is it a blend of different flours or is a dry ingredient mix that you add oil and an egg to and have a finished product? If it's a blend of flours l would put it in the same category as self rising flour .. just an ingredient and I would consider that scratch baking also.
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