AYes, it was absolutely a jab from you. You even pulled the stereotypical "you're from the US so you must not be very cultured" bit when you stated that you should have known better being from the other side of the pond. Talk about prejudice. I never once insulted you in this thread.

The fact of the matter is, you came in arrogant guns a-blazing citing a Wikipedia article and your source contradicted your very argument and supported my argument.

The OP did nothing wrong, she didn't say anything wrong. The fact of the matter is, in the US and most places, gypsy is not an ethnicity. Gypsy is a lifestyle, Romani is the ethnicity. The two are not synonymous.

With that said, I hope you have a lovely day.

ATruth hurts, but not because you aren't cultured but the view that another culture is inferior or criminal based on your own feelings.

The wiki didn't contradict, but if it makes you feel better than that's fine. Your assertion that gypsy is a sub-culture is 100% bs but continue to gloss over it.

It wasn't arrogant, it was a reaction to blatant prejudice and you should probably know better.

The OP along with other posters managed to label an entire ethnicity as criminal, sneaky, untrustworthy based on a cake incident. Well maybe I should post whether anyone had bad experiences with white customers and see how that goes down?

First, I apologize in advance, English is not my language, so beare with me.

I am from Europe and here we really use the term gipsy strictly as ethnicity, never as a lifestyle. Roma, Romani means human-people in romani language.

Today is the world day of Romani, so I think the OP started this theme as a provocation.

AI think that a lot of us knew it would cause fights that's why we said we would watch this post.

AAnd that my dear is where you are mistaken. No one called out an ethnicity because here in the US and many places, gypsy is not an ethnicity, it is a life style. Hell for the most part the "gypsies" in the US are very Caucasian looking and look like your average white person, so there is no prejudice there.

National geographic also describes "gypsy" as a sub-culture...guess they are ignorant and bigoted.

The US government also states "gypsy" is a sub-culture.

One chooses their life style, one does not choose their race or ethnicity, so once again your argument holds no water.

In the US, white would be the race, biker gang would be the sub-culture and we would call those people "thugs". Not all whites are bikers, not all bikers are in gangs. See how that works? Not all Romani are gypsies. Not all gypsies are Romani. Thug is a life style, white is a race. Gypsy is a lifestyle Romani is an ethnicity.

No ethnicity was being labeled as criminal...a lifestyle was being labelled as criminal.

AI thank you for being civil and not insulting. It's a cultural difference. In the US gypsy is used to describe a lifestyle, not an ethnicity...and many people in the US considered "gypsy" a not nice label.

ALol no I wasn't thinking of that song....now I am...:grin:

AIf you'd post your sources I could take a look but I have a feeling the sub-culture would be in referecne to the US community, not the Romani one.

Gypsies are a sub-culture in the US, and that is entirely different to what you're trying to pass of that gypsys are a sub-culture of the Romani.

Regardless of all the semantics this thread was not supposed to be about prejudice.  It was supposed to be about a business that is having problems with a particular group of people who follow a particular lifestyle and frequent her shop causing trouble.  She asked for help not a *****fest.  Certain groups of people (and they could be pink , purple or blue it's irrelevant) can cause major problems in different areas but we have become so politically correct that we are not allowed to mention them or we are 'prejudiced'.  This lady is facing enormous problems.  let's get back to trying to help her.

AIt's not about being politically correct, and sorry if cussing out and insulting ethnic groups is something you feel you're not entitled too do anymore, thank God. Would you like to let us know what 'certai groups' you want to talk about cazza1? I'm sure it would go down like a house on fire. There is a reason stuff like that is unacceptable in most social circles, it breeds hate.

People come here to rant and get help all the time and a post by the OP without all the crap would have been well received. There was no need to go to where she went.

AI feel like this is one of those threads where a poster misspells a word by spelling it in British English -- "colours" or "recognise" instead of the American "colors" and "recognize", and some American poster calls out their misspelling. But this time, I think there are two very different perspectives on gypsies - a European one and a US one.

My nephew is half-Portuguese and went to grade school in Portugal. I remember him telling me that he preferred going to school in the US because his Portuguese classmates called him a gypsy. I would have thought that, as far as insults go, calling someone a gypsy was no big deal but from the way he said it I could tell he was very hurt by the remarks. We talked about how that term is not a very loaded or powerful insult in the US - there is simply not a long history (extending to the present) of discrimination against, and persection of, ethnic Romani in the US as there is in Europe.

I think it is very possible for the OP to refer to gypsies as the lifestyle and not the ethnicity. Can we just acknowledge two legitimate perspectives - maybe each side learn from the other - and move on?

A

Exactly! !

I'm from Europe and live in the US. I don't believe gypsies are an ethnicity and I don't believe Americans are uncultured. Anyone who claims to speak for an entire country or continent is doing so without any authority to do so.

I'm sure plenty of you have Romani gypsy customers that come in all the time that are decent people who place and pay for their orders as everyone else does, and you're none the wiser. But this subculture of people that have decided to use and abuse their beliefs and traditions as an excuse to intimidate and defraud business owners does exist, and is becoming more prevalent, and like it or not they have decided to identify and excuse themselves as Romani gypsies and are therefore known as such. Until the Romani gypsies do more to change the way they are being perceived that isn't going to change. Does it make it OK to tarnish an entire group of people because of the actions of a few? No. But you can't expect business owners to keep giving out free cake either.

My brother in law is from the former Yugoslavia.  He is highly educated.  A gypsy in his opinion, is not an ethnicity, but a group of people from any ethnicity that wanders around stealing, intermarrying and scheming.  Being from where he is, he has heard much name-calling and seen much persecution.  That's why he's in the US.  Here in the US, when we hear the word gypsy, we do not think of it as being a xenophobic or racist term.  Even gypsies who live here would not consider it as such! In fact, American gypsies are proud of their lifestyle...they star on television reality shows.  They look like fools on camera, but hey, they're being watched and being paid...

Stealing from a bakery is just wrong and it happened to be a gypsy family that was doing it.  OP is not a racist nor is she a xenophobe!!!  I wish her luck because it's against the law to turn down service in a bakery and it's also scary to think what might happen if she does.  So please reconsider you opinion of her.

SuzyXD - Sorry for your troubles.  Have you thought about a simple disclaimer to have the customer sign at the time of the order?  Just state "no refunds" on all custom cake orders, and take full payment in advance.  If you get a complaint later, refer them back to the "no refunds" policy they signed.  I would also check with an attorney, but keep the policy in place as long as you keep having problems, and apply it to all orders.

And I agree with some of the previous posters that there is some confusion about how we use the term "gypsy" in the US compared to the rest of the world . . . causing people to get their britches in a bunch unnecessarily.

Liz

AWhy can't you guys just be direct? Some of you have no balls. See what I did there.

Maybe we can work on helping the OP with a solution to her problem. 

Leaving any talk of ethnicity or group affiliation or whatever you want to call it out of this...If this was a repeat/regular customer who was behaving like this - what advice would  you give her to deal with it?

I would either:

A) refuse any more orders from them.  You can either tell them you are booked or simply say that based on their past behaviors (haggling, demanding refunds, etc.) you are no longer interested in providing them bakery and they need to take their business somewhere else

B) if refusing to take their order is not a possibility then put new policies in place:

All prices are firm and not subject to negotiation.

Full payment is required up front.

Refunds will not be given.

Good luck!  Please let us know what you decide to do.
 

A

The argument that being a gypsy is a "choice" is irrelevant. If you were to discriminate against followers of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or Atheism you would be in trouble, and it is a choice to follow a specific religion, belief, or system of principles (a "creed").

I'm also surprised by the negative generalizations of Romani based on TV shows, you'd think people would know better.

AI have balls .....Big cake balls. ....

A

But are they delicious balls?

A

This. The fact that's its a choice doesn't mean you can discriminate against them, being a gypsy is the same as being a Jew, Christian, muslim, they all choose that way of life. With regards to the OP I wouldn't outright refuse a costumer because they follow the gypsy way of life. That's just wrong. However, I would refuse certain individuals that I have had trouble in the past with, or that show a type of behaviour in the beginning that I'm not comfortable with ( wanting to haggle the price when discussing the order). Have fixed prices, stick to them and produce a contract with a clear refund policy, get a signature on placing an order and a signature on delivery stating that it was recieved in the correct condition.

A

Family and friends must thick that they are delicious they eat them up quicker than I can make them.:grin:

A

There are many interpretations of the word direct. Some of us don't care to be direct in the way others do.