310 servings? That is alot of cake. The serving sizes were assumed according to the picture and Earlene's serving size chart. The chart I used has larger serving sizes than the Wilton chart. Either way, I still don't think 3,000 would be unreasonable. That's alot of work!!
I use Wilton - if I were doing that center concaved tier I'd use a 9", not an 8 to get that much curve!
A
Original message sent by FromScratchSF
Actually, now looking at it I think the serving amount was under-estimated. All my cake is 2 flavors of cake, 3 different buttercream fillings, then ganached then fondant. That's a 6 tiered cake, I think it's a 6x9x9x12x14x16 = 310 servings, even though the 9x9 was carved to be 6" in the middle, you still pay for the cake. Base price @ $8/serving = $2,480
2 hours carving +double stack @ $25/hour = $50 Sugar bow w/ edible broach detail = $125 The monograms look pre-purchased so no charge, but if I were to make them with the amount of glitter in them it's be another $100 Stencil work on 2 tiers = $200 or so Quilting on a 16" tier with pink candy pearls = $40 30 or so sugarpaste cosmos = $450
I estimate it would take at least 3 weeks prep time making and coloring all those cosmos Bow would also need to be made in advance, takes less then an hour but I charge in hour increments, putting it on with additional "ribbon" around the tier, 1 hour Center broach - could be 1/2 hour, could be more depending on how much detail I want to put into it Baking cake - 4 hours Tort/fill - another 3 hours Carving - 2 hours (I'm a perfectionist) Ganache/fondant - I'd allocate a full 8 hour day, but would probably take 10 with the concave double barrel Stack & add final decorations, 6 hours Make the bottom black separator disk for the cosmos - another hour
So for me, if I were to replicate that cake exact, (assuming the client did not want an upcharged flavor or filling) that actually puts me $3,445 plus delivery
has anyone contacted swank to see what their final charge was?
Anna that's horrible!!! SO sorry that happened!!!
Actually, now looking at it I think the serving amount was under-estimated. All my cake is 2 flavors of cake, 3 different buttercream fillings, then ganached then fondant. That's a 6 tiered cake, I think it's a 6x9x9x12x14x16 = 310 servings, even though the 9x9 was carved to be 6" in the middle, you still pay for the cake. Base price @ $8/serving = $2,480
2 hours carving +double stack @ $25/hour = $50
Sugar bow w/ edible broach detail = $125
The monograms look pre-purchased so no charge, but if I were to make them with the amount of glitter in them it's be another $100
Stencil work on 2 tiers = $200 or so
Quilting on a 16" tier with pink candy pearls = $40
30 or so sugarpaste cosmos = $450
I estimate it would take at least 3 weeks prep time making and coloring all those cosmos
Bow would also need to be made in advance, takes less then an hour but I charge in hour increments, putting it on with additional "ribbon" around the tier, 1 hour
Center broach - could be 1/2 hour, could be more depending on how much detail I want to put into it
Baking cake - 4 hours
Tort/fill - another 3 hours
Carving - 2 hours (I'm a perfectionist)
Ganache/fondant - I'd allocate a full 8 hour day, but would probably take 10 with the concave double barrel
Stack & add final decorations, 6 hours
Make the bottom black separator disk for the cosmos - another hour
So for me, if I were to replicate that cake exact, (assuming the client did not want an upcharged flavor or filling) that actually puts me $3,445 plus delivery
I really appreciate that you took the time to price out how you work. I'll bet a lot of rookies wouldn't consider most of what you'd charge beyond the cake and frosting.
As we can all see, there is a huge difference between a $350 cake and a $3500.
I see this topic becoming really helpful to all bakers and I hope that we keep doing it. Perhaps a separate forum if it become popular!
I'm glad! I know a lot of people take a look at a cake and don't see all the little details until you do this for a while. Any time a client sends me a photo I literally break down each and every element that would go into reproducing the cake, then make changes on how I'd do it. You have to learn to look and see everything - even that extra 16" black disk at the very bottom of the source cake that is covered in black fondant then filled in with cosmos. How many of you caught that extra detail? 
Actually, now looking at it I think the serving amount was under-estimated. All my cake is 2 flavors of cake, 3 different buttercream fillings, then ganached then fondant. That's a 6 tiered cake, I think it's a 6x9x9x12x14x16 = 310 servings, even though the 9x9 was carved to be 6" in the middle, you still pay for the cake. Base price @ $8/serving = $2,480
2 hours carving +double stack @ $25/hour = $50
Sugar bow w/ edible broach detail = $125
The monograms look pre-purchased so no charge, but if I were to make them with the amount of glitter in them it's be another $100
Stencil work on 2 tiers = $200 or so
Quilting on a 16" tier with pink candy pearls = $40
30 or so sugarpaste cosmos = $450
I estimate it would take at least 3 weeks prep time making and coloring all those cosmos
Bow would also need to be made in advance, takes less then an hour but I charge in hour increments, putting it on with additional "ribbon" around the tier, 1 hour
Center broach - could be 1/2 hour, could be more depending on how much detail I want to put into it
Baking cake - 4 hours
Tort/fill - another 3 hours
Carving - 2 hours (I'm a perfectionist)
Ganache/fondant - I'd allocate a full 8 hour day, but would probably take 10 with the concave double barrel
Stack & add final decorations, 6 hours
Make the bottom black separator disk for the cosmos - another hour
So for me, if I were to replicate that cake exact, (assuming the client did not want an upcharged flavor or filling) that actually puts me $3,445 plus delivery
wow --two hours to carve that?
it would be whittled to nothing if you cut on it for two hours
three weeks prep time to make a coupla dozen flowers--you could grow them from tiny seeds in that amount of time
three hours torte & fill if you stop for a two hour lunch
stack & add final decor 6 hours? the stencil is gonna take some time but you have to do the quilting when you did the fondant--it's a bow some pearls and the stencil--if you free handed the black decor it couldn't take six hours
that's a very fine cake and i'm not taking a drop from it--it's gorgeous and not be taken lightly
but dang you've got bucketfuls of extra time built into that schedule
you could do that much more efficiently than that
no but i checked their web page and fondant is $5.50 per
their cakes include two hours of decorating time additional is fifty bucks an hour
so in two hours they could do the pearls and bow and some of the stenciling at least
the flowers & topper & sculpted tier are additional
how long would the stencil take?
K8, you bring up an excellent point - the time I allocate in my schedule to do anything is padded for more then I think it will take. Experience has taught me that when working with employees, answering phones, dealing with outside kitchen staff, answering emails etc, sometimes a simple task can take forever. At any rate, my time tables are always padded with the goal of it taking less time to do. If I only made an american buttercream, the cake was one flavor, I didn't bother with ganache, and I made "close enough" cosmos. I have no doubt it would go a lot faster.
I would start the cosmos 3 weeks in advance. I wouldn't be working on them 8 hours a day for 3 weeks, sorry if you got that impression!
I would totally give myself 2 hours to carve that double-barrel. It's so high on the cake and such a focal point it would have to be perfect. Taking it off is easy - putting it back on, not so much - and ganaching something like that could potentially take forever. In fact of all the details that's the one I'd be the most shaky about based on my skillset. I have no doubt others could bang that out faster.
K8, would would your time table be and what would you price it as? Did you already post that and I missed it?
Here is the note I wrote on my cake page: https://www.facebook.com/notes/violas-custom-cakes/cake-pricing-explained/492430020803655
Feel free to use/copy/modify it. I actually modify it from time to time myself and will probably add more to it. I made it because I got tired of justifying my prices to people. I still think my prices are cheap for what I do. And you wouldn't believe the numbers of customer complain to me that they got a cake from xyz cake shop and were sorely disappointed. You get what you pay for.
I shared this on my FB page because it freakin' rocks!! Thank you for sharing!
A
Original message sent by FromScratchSF
:o Anna that's horrible!!! SO sorry that happened!!!
Shoulda seen my face, and if my grandma was there, she'd have washed my mouth out with soap!!
FromScratch, you are so right about using a 9 inch instead of 8 inch. I didn't even think about going larger for the concave shape. But see, that's why you get to charge $3500
.
Correction - in LA LA land I'd quote $3,500 - but I'd probably never make that cake. I'd change so much of that design I really don't know what I'd come up with, but my design aesthetic is "less is more", so I'd probably drop several details, especially the diamond quilting and hot pink. I also stop my cakes at 5 tiers. They are just too heavy to try and get around in this city. The cake as pictured would be, what, 25 pounds or more of ganache alone? Ug. No bueno. I couldn't even get it in and out of my walk-in!
A
Original message sent by FromScratchSF
K8, you bring up an excellent point - the time I allocate in my schedule to do anything is padded for more then I think it will take. Experience has taught me that when working with employees, answering phones, dealing with outside kitchen staff, answering emails etc, sometimes a simple task can take forever. At any rate, my time tables are always padded with the goal of it taking less time to do. If I only made an american buttercream, the cake was one flavor, I didn't bother with ganache, and I made "close enough" cosmos. I have no doubt it would go a lot faster.
I would start the cosmos 3 weeks in advance. I wouldn't be working on them 8 hours a day for 3 weeks, sorry if you got that impression!
I would totally give myself 2 hours to carve that double-barrel. It's so high on the cake and such a focal point it would have to be perfect. Taking it off is easy - putting it back on, not so much - and ganaching something like that could potentially take forever. In fact of all the details that's the one I'd be the most shaky about based on my skillset. I have no doubt others could bang that out faster.
K8, would would your time table be and what would you price it as? Did you already post that and I missed it?
Umm..I'll say it since K8 hasn't yet. Touché!
That stencil is A ROYAL PITA, and would easily take me over 2 hours. (And then I would stick my finger in it.)
Seriously, I need to estimate it taking much longer, and getting started much sooner. While I don't have crazy Jen skillz, I know I can do much better because I can see my mistakes, and imperfections, and know that cake will be worth way more than $340 of my time, and I'd die before I brought that mess to the reception. Or lie, and say I was stricken with cataracts or struck my a car and made it with both my arms in casts. Or both.
K8, you bring up an excellent point - the time I allocate in my schedule to do anything is padded for more then I think it will take. Experience has taught me that when working with employees, answering phones, dealing with outside kitchen staff, answering emails etc, sometimes a simple task can take forever. At any rate, my time tables are always padded with the goal of it taking less time to do. If I only made an american buttercream, the cake was one flavor, I didn't bother with ganache, and I made "close enough" cosmos. I have no doubt it would go a lot faster.
I would start the cosmos 3 weeks in advance. I wouldn't be working on them 8 hours a day for 3 weeks, sorry if you got that impression!
I would totally give myself 2 hours to carve that double-barrel. It's so high on the cake and such a focal point it would have to be perfect. Taking it off is easy - putting it back on, not so much - and ganaching something like that could potentially take forever. In fact of all the details that's the one I'd be the most shaky about based on my skillset. I have no doubt others could bang that out faster.
K8, would would your time table be and what would you price it as? Did you already post that and I missed it?
the two hours @ $25/hr that you are charging is not decorating time?
So, shame on me.
I did not follow the rules of WeddingbyColor.com. I created an account under the false pretense of being a bride. There was no option to join as a vendor. I did come clean in the very beginning of the post. Only fair.
"Ladies, please forgive me. I am not a current bride. I am a cake artist. I felt compelled to come and comment on this photo to help end the perpetual misfortune that befalls so many brides. It is just impossible to get THAT cake for $340.
AHahahaha!!good for you! I was thinking about it, but am much too lazy! I was also wondering if anyone has contacted John and Jen yet?
I have also submitted the story to CakeWrecks.
K8, thank you for having an interest in dissecting my time table and pricing, however I'm not interested in having it critiqued and won't be answering any more questions about it. I posted what I would charge and how long I would allocate - lets stick to the spirit of the thread. I'm much more interested in seeing how much others would charge, including you, and how long you would take to make it. Maybe by telling us your method and pricing I may learn how to manage myself, staff and bakery more efficiently, which I am always on the look out for!
OK ladies, I'm just sayin, it's one thing for us to discuss methods, pricing and whatnot over here, it's another thing to post on the bride's site like that. Maybe she loved the cake, maybe she hated it, but it would be very easy for her to think we are also making fun of her, which is not cool.
I like these threads, but if we want to have freedom to post them we need to be sensitive to the fact that was a major part of someone's life and not directly make fun of them or their decisions like that.
AI feel for the bride, it looks like she has good taste and planned a gorgeous wedding and reception. I, no way, think she was to blame, I do think she had a predatory bakery, looking to make a couple bucks and was used by her. When the baker said she could do it, she had no reason to doubt her, and being on a tight budget is no reason to be shameful. I was on a very tight budget for my wedding as well, if I wasn't a baker, I might have ended up with a simulate cake or worse. (A sheet cake!!)
While the bride was victimized, she was not a victim because she is smiling, happy and beautiful on her wedding day. Kudos to her for making the best of it.
OK ladies, I'm just sayin, it's one thing for us to discuss methods, pricing and whatnot over here, it's another thing to post on the bride's site like that. Maybe she loved the cake, maybe she hated it, but it would be very easy for her to think we are also making fun of her, which is not cool.
I like these threads, but if we want to have freedom to post them we need to be sensitive to the fact that was a major part of someone's life and not directly make fun of them or their decisions like that.
Let's be clear. It was not the bride's personal blog. It is a website for brides. Perhaps she did love it. I would be awful surprised that someone loved their cake so much yet didn't post a photo of it, but it's possible. I don't think there was anything about my post that made fun of her. I do think people will think I am trying to educate them regarding expectations of price.
I was VERY careful not to mention the name of this site or any clues that would lead someone from there to here. That would have been very not kewl.
I think anyone, who reviews my posts, will agree that I typically take great care to be very sensitive. With my clients I am extremely sensitive to the fact that this is a very important part of their life. That is also why I take great care to specify my limitations and not inflate my skills.
OK I just wanted to put that out there in case anyone else got the idea to create an account and pile on as some tend to do from here. Just trying to stay positive!
While I feel for her (if in fact she was disappointed in her cake), I still hold firm that she is doing a huge disservice in misguiding the other members of that site.
They read her post & assume they too will be able to get that big beautiful cake for $340.
Facts remain she either purposefully mislead all the readers, knowing she was getting a smaller cake, or she neglected to correct the misinformation. Her happiness, quite frankly, is irrelevant.
I read the brides posts on the wedding blog site. She seemed very excited about the baker doing her cake. Even mentioned she had done a cake for her future MIL, which she included a picture of. So she certainly couldn't have been surprised or disappointed.
I agree with those who wish the bride had followed up on her blog that her cake was not a replica in design or size of the dream cake she posted.
A"Whittled to nothing", k8 you're nuts lol.
Oh my lordie..... AND they are smiling????? wow - I will NEVER understand how price can be the ONLY factor in purchasing.... seriously how can THAT be value for money??
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