Bring Back The 'puppies And Rainbows'

Decorating By Danielle_loves_cake Updated 19 Oct 2012 , 12:46am by debidehm

Kendall88 Posted 14 Oct 2012 , 6:16am
post #31 of 116
Quote:
Quote:

For example, I thought much of Kendall's last post was rude and unnecessary, so I'm simply not replying to it. (FWIW I usually sleep between 11:30pm-7:30am, and that post was written at 11pm.)





bahahahaha

............and yet that is a reply icon_lol.gif - if you are going to ignore me. Just ignore me. But you can't because you hate not having the last word and your 'style' is speaking to us like we are naughty little children - trying to 'put me in my place' at the same time. You are nothing if not predicable.

Lol I think if I were a 'fly on your wall' I would see steam coming out the top of your head now, but that is right, you are not following the post anymore are you???

Thanks for taking the time to reply thumbs_up.gif

Godot Posted 14 Oct 2012 , 6:38am
post #32 of 116

What is it, about others, that provokes such animosity in humans?

Why all these grotesque overreactions to posts made by strangers, thousands of kilometers away?

If someone finds themself grossly provoked by a certain poster, over and over and over, maybe it's time to take a good hard look inside.

I'm all for puppies and kitties, but unless you're running a kennel or a cattery - they have really no place in business. Give me the cold, hard facts anyday - painful or not!

jason_kraft Posted 14 Oct 2012 , 4:30pm
post #33 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godot

What is it, about others, that provokes such animosity in humans?

Why all these grotesque overreactions to posts made by strangers, thousands of kilometers away?



In my opinion anonymity has a lot to do with it...if you go by a "screen name" instead of a real name, you may feel more free to say things you would never say to people you know, simply because it can't be traced back to you. There are exceptions of course, but I've found personal attacks are often less of an issue on Facebook discussion groups because everyone goes by their real name.

Quote:
Quote:

If someone finds themself grossly provoked by a certain poster, over and over and over, maybe it's time to take a good hard look inside.



But if they just ignored the posters they don't like, they wouldn't have anything to complain about. icon_wink.gif

Danielle_loves_cake Posted 14 Oct 2012 , 9:54pm
post #34 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godot

If someone finds themself grossly provoked by a certain poster, over and over and over, maybe it's time to take a good hard look inside.




Okay, I'll admit, this comment does upset me a bit. I told myself, I wouldn't get personal in this post, but perhaps this is why I started it. My friend's daughter recently committed suicide. She was being bullied at school. She posted a video on You Tube, a cry for help I suppose, which made it worse. Some of the comments she received were horrible. Two weeks later she committed suicide. Our local schools are now trying to deal with this issue.

I've never been bullied myself, although I have bullied others as a child (my gosh I feel so horrible about that now). I was telling my husband that the closest I've ever felt to being bullied was here on Cake Central. Not only did it happen in the forums, I was sent personal messages as well. Anyway, I'm sorry I started this forum post. I didn't mean to cause drama. I guess I was just trying to make a small difference.

paulstonia Posted 14 Oct 2012 , 10:49pm
post #35 of 116

Danielle, so sorry to hear about your friends daughter. My daughter had a very close friend commit suicide a year ago and I think I know exactly how you're feeling. It brings so many emotions so close to the surface. As far as this site, people can pretend they don't see it or say it's just telling it like it is, but it's there. Sometimes the poor op isn't even involved. There are people on here who don't really seem to like each other and seem to enjoy the animosity and will use someone else's question to go at each other. Most are helpful and nice others thirve on drama, kinda like high school.

costumeczar Posted 14 Oct 2012 , 11:16pm
post #36 of 116

I skipped over half the responses in this thread because they weren't happy enough...

My two cents is that if you don't like a response skip over it,don't take things personally (it's hard to read tone online) and don't assume that people are trying to make you feel stupid. And if you want to see some really obnoxious responses online go to yahoo news and read the comments on any thread. I will make this place look like the biggest lovefest in the world by comparison.

By the way, my name is Kara and I don't care if you call me that, I am not anonymous so nobody should use that as an explanation if you think my answer to something is obnoxious thumbs_up.gif

PumpkinTart Posted 14 Oct 2012 , 11:32pm
post #37 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielle_loves_cake



I'm wondering if you're reading the same posts that we are or if you're perhaps 'playing dumb' to get me riled up. Perhaps you're hoping I'll mention specific incidents and then you can acuse me of 'attacking' people'. icon_confused.gif [/u]




I believe Jason was asking you (or anyone else for that matter) to post a specific example so that people could weigh in on whether they interpreted a comment as rude or not. Many times, after a person has a bad experience with another poster, they will frequently perceive any comments from that same poster as negative or rude or condescending, etc., because they're still holding onto the negative feelings from the previous incident. A perfectly benign statement can be read as rude or nasty when you're expecting "that person" to be rude or nasty. A completely objective outsider could try to point out, "Hey, I just read that same exact comment and it wasn't actually rude." That's the point Jason was trying to make about providing a specific example.

However, many times even if fifty people can say objectively that they don't see anything rude in the specific example given, you may still refuse to believe it wasn't rude because of your personal bias/past experience. There's nothing that can be done to change your mind but it doesn't make you right and the other person "rude" just because that's how you feel.

Jason seems to be very reasonable and always takes the time to respond very calmly even when people are attacking him or accusing him of things. I appreciate his style of trying to ignore the really blatant nastiness directed at him and simply respond to the facts.

embersmom Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 12:00am
post #38 of 116

I'm a newbie here too, and although I can see why the OP would say a particular poster, say, is condescending in her eyes, I don't see it as such. Maybe it's because I've been in the bakery business for over half my life. Maybe it's because I'm one of those "pull no punches" type of people where, if I ask for an opinion, I want the unvarnished truth. You don't like how I decorated my cake, say? Tell me why. Tell me what you would have done. Tell me what I should keep in mind the next time I attempt such. Tell me the pitfalls I should watch out for if I'm going to start my own business. Show me different ways to do X or Y that may turn out to be better than the way I've been doing it.

I can certainly understand how that sort of attitude can scare off some people.

Although I appreciate that kind of criticism, I'm also not one to give it unless it's asked for. I wouldn't be as brash to somebody just starting out because it's a great way to kill their burgeoning passion.

I think, also, that experience has a lot to do with it. Those of us who have been in the business for awhile and/or have their own businesses have had the blinders swiped from our eyes. Some may be subconsciously transmitting that through their posts in the "it's not all rainbows and butterflies" kind of way. We still love what we do, though, or else none of us would still be here.

Danielle_loves_cake Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 12:07am
post #39 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulstonia

Danielle, so sorry to hear about your friends daughter. My daughter had a very close friend commit suicide a year ago and I think I know exactly how you're feeling. It brings so many emotions so close to the surface. As far as this site, people can pretend they don't see it or say it's just telling it like it is, but it's there. Sometimes the poor op isn't even involved. There are people on here who don't really seem to like each other and seem to enjoy the animosity and will use someone else's question to go at each other. Most are helpful and nice others thirve on drama, kinda like high school.




Thanks so much!

jason_kraft Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 12:28am
post #40 of 116

The physical and emotional damage caused by bullying in schools is definitely a tragedy, but I think it is a disservice to compare it to strangers being "rude", "condescending", or "bragging" on a moderated public forum with an adult community where anonymity is an option.

If someone sends you an inappropriate private message, it is easy to report them to the moderators and put them on ignore so you will never receive any further private communication from them. It's not as if you are forced to spend 35 hours every week with the CC community.

Danielle_loves_cake Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 12:34am
post #41 of 116

I'm seeing these little 'digs' and nastiness all over the place here on Cake Central. And some of you are finding it quite funny. It actually makes me sad. Trust me I'm tempted to quote these people, but then we'll just be bombarded with more nastiness and defensiveness.

Something good has come out of this for me though. I've realized that, as parents and teachers, we should focus our efforts on teaching our children and young adults how to 'deal' with bullying. Rather than going after the bullies, we need to teach our children that the world is full of them and how best to handle it.

Thank you all for your responses.

waggs Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 1:05am
post #42 of 116

I have to admit that as a newbie on cc I have often not asked questions because I was afraid that I would get a snide comment after reading a lot of posts that were rude. Some people just want a question answered even tho some more experienced people would think stupid. Just saying......

paulstonia Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 1:22am
post #43 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

The physical and emotional damage caused by bullying in schools is definitely a tragedy, but I think it is a disservice to compare it to strangers being "rude", "condescending", or "bragging" on a moderated public forum with an adult community where anonymity is an option. .



I really don't think she was saying they are in any way on the same level. But going through the experience of losing someone to suicide will make you more sensitive to other peoples pain. It brings out some very raw emotions. I can see how seeing people being hurtful for no good reason even if it is just on a forum would bother you. I see people tell it like it is on here and that's fine. Then there are others, and sometimes I think they may be trying to be funny, but that doesn't come across in type, you can't see it's said with a smile. Yes we shouldn't take it personal, but sometimes you do, we're all human.

Danielle_loves_cake Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 2:01am
post #44 of 116

Thank you Waggs for speaking up. I think there may be a lot on here that want to use the forums but don't - and not all of them are newbies. For example, this is the first time I've used the forums in over six months and I've been on here for years. I'm not a newbie. I've been decorating for over 15 years and recently had my work published in a book. (I'm not mentioning the book to brag. I mention it to prove that I'm an experienced decorator.) NO question is stupid! Everyone starts somewhere.

To paulstonia, thank you so much. You are right, that is exactly how I'm feeling, angry, frustrated, sad. And no I'm not saying they are on the same level, I just think people need to just be a little more sensitive to others' feelings.

jason_kraft Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 2:16am
post #45 of 116

One solution I've seen in other communities is a separate "newbies" forum that is more tightly moderated and has a zero tolerance policy for discourteous behavior. There's no reason non-newbies who are very sensitive couldn't use a "newbies" forum as well, but it usually has lower traffic so you may not get the same quality or quantity of responses.

Unfortunately this solution requires proactive moderators who are engaged with the community, so I'm not sure it will happen here. Can't hurt to suggest it though (you can use the link below to send the staff a message directly).

http://cakecentral.com/contact

Kendall88 Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 2:22am
post #46 of 116

[My friend's daughter recently committed suicide. She was being bullied at school. She posted a video on You Tube, a cry for help I suppose, which made it worse. Some of the comments she received were horrible. Two weeks later she committed suicide. Our local schools are now trying to deal with this issue[/quote]


Sorry - I messed that quoting bit up.......but I was trying to get part of a reply to post.


Danielle - this just made me feel so sad, sad for your daughter, sad for the school and more than anything sad for the mother and family of this child. I could not imagine the pain of losing a child, I know it happens, but being a mother myself I think this is our worst fear in life.

I agree with some parts of what pumpkin tart has to say, especially the part about if you have a bad experience with some people you tend to hold what they say as negative. I will be the first to say 'guilty as charged'. I think reading back over my posts on this thread I may have over-acted 'a bit' where Jason is concerned, but we are so different we just 'clash'. I admit I am way too sarcastic at times, but if I did not think Jason could take it, I would not do it. He gives as good as he gets. And while I admit to being openly sarcastic, he does exactly the same in many of his 'helpful' replies, he just hides it better. The person still knows they are being attacked.

Someone on here has a tag on the bottom of their signature something about 'everything you say to someone effects them'. Sorry I can't remember who it is or what it says again but it is something along those lines. Think this sums it up personally.

I am such a beginner in all things to do with cake, if I could nope to be even a fraction of what some of the talented people are on here I would be a very happy little camper indeed icon_smile.gif. In saying that, I have improved heaps and has my knowledge the more I have to do with it. So now I probably would not come on and ask a question that is seen to be a silly question to ask. If I had come on here a year ago, I would probably have fallen into the category of 'people asking silly questions'. What seems silly to an experienced person, is not as silly or 'plain to see' to the beginner.

I don't think being anonymous has anything to do with it, we are all just as important as the next person, nobody should be made to feel like they are 'not worth it'.

Danielle_loves_cake Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 2:49am
post #47 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

There's no reason non-newbies who are very sensitive couldn't use a "newbies" forum as well, but it usually has lower traffic so you may not get the same quality or quantity of responses.




That's a little insulting. So because I'm 'too sensitive', I shouldn't socialize with everyone else in my peer group. Perhaps some are [/u]unsensitive!

Danielle_loves_cake Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 2:54am
post #48 of 116

Thank you Kendall!

I think I started this post also to kind of 'test the waters' and see if I'd be comfortable posting again. Like Kendall, I probably won't be posting any more questions either.

Danielle_loves_cake Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 2:59am
post #49 of 116

Sorry, I meant to say insensitive.

Danielle_loves_cake Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 3:20am
post #50 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielle_loves_cake

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

There's no reason non-newbies who are very sensitive couldn't use a "newbies" forum as well, but it usually has lower traffic so you may not get the same quality or quantity of responses.




That's a little insulting. So because I'm 'too sensitive', I shouldn't socialize with everyone else in my peer group. Perhaps some are insensitive!




Also, Jason, that's the best part of Cake Central. That the more experienced decorators can help the less experienced. I learned so much here when I was starting out and I'd like to help others with my knowledge. Besides there are always areas where someone can improve. For example, someone that's been decorating for 20 years but just in buttercream, may want to start working in fondant, yet they are not "newbies". If the newbie questions upset you, don't respond to them. Personally I think that's the whole point to this website!

jason_kraft Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 3:33am
post #51 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielle_loves_cake

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

There's no reason non-newbies who are very sensitive couldn't use a "newbies" forum as well, but it usually has lower traffic so you may not get the same quality or quantity of responses.




That's a little insulting. So because I'm 'too sensitive', I shouldn't socialize with everyone else in my peer group. Perhaps some are [/u]unsensitive!



I'm not sure why you are insulted...I certainly don't consider being called sensitive to be an insult. One thing this thread has made clear is that some people are uncomfortable with perceived negative emotions in others' posts, and some people either don't see the negativity or don't care about it.

Another point is that some people (newbies and non-newbies) are afraid to post due to the aforementioned perceived negativity. A separate forum that is actively moderated and held to a higher standard of civility would provide a safe place for these people to ask questions without fear.

Newbies would be free to ask questions anywhere, but if they can't handle an environment that's (for lack of a better phrase) less than 100% polite then they would do best to stick to the newbie forum (or the "Puppies and Rainbows" forum if you'd prefer). IMO this solution is more realistic than the entire CC community committing to be more polite.

Danielle_loves_cake Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 4:37am
post #52 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft


A separate forum that is actively moderated and held to a higher standard of civility would provide a safe place for these people to ask questions without fear.

Newbies would be free to ask questions anywhere, but if they can't handle an environment that's (for lack of a better phrase) less than 100% polite then they would do best to stick to the newbie forum (or the "Puppies and Rainbows" forum if you'd prefer). IMO this solution is more realistic than the entire CC community committing to be more polite.




I don't think we need to segregate the newbies from the rest of the CC population. As I said, someone may be an expert in one area (for example, decorating in buttercream) and an amateur in other (using fondant). What forum would they use then? You say your specialty is business. So if you wanted to decorate, what forum would you use then? There's always something new to learn in cake decorating!

The solution is simple: "The entire CC community committing to be more polite"! The moderators need to enforce this!

Okay, here's where your insult is (in your last post anyway): "if they can't handle..." Therefore, you are insulting sensitive people because we 'can't handle' it. Yes, it is just a little one, but when one's post is full of 'little' insults, it's not really pleasant for the person you are responding to. Then there's the downright blatantly rude people. Honestly, I'd just prefer someone being blantantly rude over the little insults here and there. By the way, I can "handle" your insults. I'm not that sensitive! It just isn't necessary!

jason_kraft Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 5:34am
post #53 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielle_loves_cake

I don't think we need to segregate the newbies from the rest of the CC population. As I said, someone may be an expert in one area (for example, decorating in buttercream) and an amateur in other (using fondant). What forum would they use then? You say your specialty is business. So if you wanted to decorate, what forum would you use then? There's always something new to learn in cake decorating!



Perhaps I should clarify my suggestion. I'm not suggesting segregating newbies from the rest of the CC population, I used that description because that's how I've seen this type of sub-forum labeled on other sites. The point of the sub-forum would be to more strictly enforce a higher standard of civility for people who feel more comfortable in that kind of environment, whether they are newbies or not.

So if I'm an expert in business and have a newbie question about cake decorating, I would post in the main Cake Decorating forum because it won't bother me if someone makes a sarcastic or rude comment. If that did bother me, I would post in the Puppies & Rainbows forum instead.

Quote:
Quote:

The solution is simple: "The entire CC community committing to be more polite"! The moderators need to enforce this!



I doubt you will be happy with the results if moderators start editing anyone's posts that do not meet an arbitrary and subjective level of politeness. Actually enforcing the existing rules of the forum to remove personal attacks in a timely manner would be a step in the right direction though.

Quote:
Quote:

Therefore, you are insulting sensitive people because we 'can't handle' it.



I'm curious, how would you have phrased it? I was trying to explain who would use the new sub-forum in my suggestion, and that was what I came up with...if people are OK with reading or even skipping over the occasional negative comment they would use the existing forums, but if they don't want to risk seeing those negative comments at all they would use the proactively moderated sub-forum.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being sensitive, and I'm still surprised you feel insulted by this. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on what's rude and what's not, but if you tend to err on the side of inferring rudeness, don't expect the rest of the world to be extra careful with their words to avoid upsetting you.

vgcea Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 6:53am
post #54 of 116

Ahhh... arguing with Jason... an exercise in futility. icon_lol.gif *runs out of thread*

Tails Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 10:38am
post #55 of 116

Arguing with Jason becomes tedious for some people because Jason always replies with a calm, collected, factual answer, which some people cannot argue with. So they stop, signing off with "oh I cant argue anymore, its too tedious".

Lol! Jason, I dont know why you're being so attacked, your posts have always been chock-full of decent advice when I've read them.

But I guess, the statement truly fits here.

Offence is never given, only taken.

PS: Danielle_loves_cake, you say you've been on here for years, but your reg date is Oct 11, 2012?

costumeczar Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 10:38am
post #56 of 116

Jason is an example of someone who can seemingly read a thread and not imagine ten tons of emotion into it. Maybe it's the Y chromosome, take the info and move along. It's something that a lot of people on here could benefit from. I've seen threads where someone asked a question, someone else answered with a simple yes or no, and because the answer wasn't what th OP was looking for the person responding was called a bully, mean, dream crusher, whatever. It gets tedious for people who are trying to be helpful but don't give the answers that someone is looking to get.

This kind of let's all hold hands thread gets started occasionally, and it's pretty obvious that it's usually intended to scold one particular person, which is pretty ironic.

Godot Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 11:04am
post #57 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

Jason is an example of someone who can seemingly read a thread and not imagine ten tons of emotion into it. Maybe it's the Y chromosome, take the info and move along. It's something that a lot of people on here could benefit from. I've seen threads where someone asked a question, someone else answered with a simple yes or no, and because the answer wasn't what th OP was looking for the person responding was called a bully, mean, dream crusher, whatever. It gets tedious for people who are trying to be helpful but don't give the answers that someone is looking to get.

This kind of let's all hold hands thread gets started occasionally, and it's pretty obvious that it's usually intended to scold one particular person, which is pretty ironic.




What she said.

crushed Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 12:46pm
post #58 of 116

If you are looking for puppies and rainbows in a cake forum, check out Wilton.com. Just looked around a bit over there and everyone is sweet as pie to everyone else. I'm not sure if anyone is getting useful responses that would help grow their businesses or improve their skills in any way, but they are all really nice to each other.

Godot Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 1:03pm
post #59 of 116

If folks want to surround themselves with yes-men and yea-sayers there is always the possibility to start their own message boards and only allow rainbows, unicorns, good fairies, and Care Bears to become members. Then they can moderate (censor) to their hearts' content! Everyone can sit in a circle, hold hands and sing Kumbayah

Danielle_loves_cake Posted 15 Oct 2012 , 1:53pm
post #60 of 116

This is how my last post went (the one I wrote months ago):

I asked a question regarding how to improve something to do with my buttercream. I received a nasty response more or less tellling me that I'm not a real baker because I use American buttercream not Meringue buttercream. That started a little disagreement, no big deal. Then someone with a similar name commented to defend me. Then it all started, someone accused me of being her and then continued to say that my/her last recipe was a bunch of crap, that is was discusting and the I/she asks stupid questions. That was not me. I felt really badly for her though. This is the first time that I've created a bogus account. Now is that not rude? Do you not see the problem there? This stuff goes on all the time!

Jason, you should be in a debate class or on a debate forum. I think you would really enjoy it. Maybe you already are. I'm not sure if you'd win though as you don't really listen to what's being said. And speaking of bogus accounts, you're probably using one (or more) to back up your statements. I've been spending a lot of time on here lately with this forum post and it's not really been enjoyable for me so I would like to end it soon. I know you like to have the last word though, so lets finish this up soon okay. You got your point across, the world is full of nasty people and it won't change. Sorry to be so blunt, but I don't even understand why you're a member here if you don't even bake or decorate.

Quote by @%username% on %date%

%body%