This particular cake went in the back of a minivan to a wedding who knows where in another town. No idea if there even WAS a venue. They took a cutting guide and it sounded like a family affair.

I'm not worried about the cake; there was nothing wrong with it.

And YES, me too-- I have had 4 complaints in 12 years, and THREE OF THOSE were this year, almost back to back, and I swear they sounded related, their email complaints are so similar, all full of capitals and exclamation points and semi veiled threats. Threatening me doesn't really get you far; I have enough skin for 3 secretaries after running two businesses for 12 years dealing with customers, but yes, it does seem like this year people are definitely going around making the rounds after the wedding and getting a little bit back here, a little bit back there. The last one I had a complaint from was also hassling the venue about her bill, so it must be a fun new trend. (oh joy)

My attorney friend would take them to mat on a slander case, so that wouldn't be a cool direction for them to go, either.

Sometime the customer isn't 'always right'; sometimes they're just trying to get something back by being the squeeky wheel. Did someone write a book about this tactic or something?

This thread sure touched a nerve, and it breaks my heart. There's been a huge change in our society, and in many cases it's not for the good. This issue is a symptom of the attitude and willingness of people to act in a fraudulent manner. I made many wedding cakes from 1979-99 and only once did I have a problem with a customer seeking a refund.

It appears that many cake businesses see this problem getting worse. We need to stay ahead of them by discussing ways to protect ourselves: create a list of red-flag behaviors, what to write into contracts, etc. We need to continue this discussion with the intent of becoming a smarter group of businesspeople.

Before I start I want to clear, this is not about saying you are in the wrong. Rather this is something I noticed across posts and it is something to consider as you move forward with this individual.

Given your account of the individual's complaints about the cake it does seem like the cake may have been served cold. Given what you have posted about your instructions it may be worth reflecting on how/what was communicated to the clients.

First you noted that you warned them about the temperature. What was the nature of the warning you provided? Is there any chance that you overstated the danger, or communicated the danger of melting in such a way that the client could have interpreted that bringing the cake out of the fridge (assuming it was kept there) for any length time could lead it to melt? If these people have little experience with how to handle cake they could easily assume based on how the nature of the warning they were given that they should keep the cake in the fridge as long as possible. This relates to the second thing you mentioned about the document you have them sign.

How is this stated on the instructions? Is this all it states or does it provide instructions on how one should do this? That is does it provide them with an idea of how long it takes a cake like the one they received to come up to" room temperature" under room temperature conditions? What about if the conditions are not room temperature--i.e. they do not have air conditioning and so it is hot in the hot/venue? It is not safe to assume they know this, and if the house/venue was hotter than "room temperature" it coupled with the emphasis on temperature they could have easily assumed they needed to keep the cake in the fridge until the last possible minute.

In this case where they if they took it out sooner than they did would have led to the cake melting. Again if a person is not familiar with how IMBC acts at 100 degrees and they have little idea as to how long it takes a cake to come to room temperature so it is fluffy and delicious simply telling them let it come to room temperature provides them with little insight into how to ensure the cake does properly come to room temperature.

I know this sounds like I am trying to defend the client--this is not my intent. Rather it seems in this case what was communicated to the client in terms of how the cake needed to be handled prior to its serving could have contribute to the cake being served cold. It is also likely that they ignored everything you said and/or they are pushing for a refund which is why I am asking about what exactly was communicated to the client.

double post

I think I would still let them, (want them) to bring the remainder of the cake to you. Drive the 45 minutes, each way to get to you. Unless they really believe they have a chance at getting their money back, they won't bother. If they do show up, you just show your most professional side and make them the offer of the free anniversary cake, but only AFTER a nice discussion about the cake.

If you make it easy and say no need to come, they'll think they have you right where they want you. They'll be happy, later, to get the free anniversary cake, but right now, they want money and they think they can bully you. Plus, why let them keep and eat the rest of the cake? (providing they haven't left it to go to ruin) I think this is where you show you are a strong, confident, business woman and you will handle things with them face to face, as you first told them. Backing down from that now, I think, will make you look weak, and they will not settle except for everything they want.

What was the total amount of the order?

I said earlier that I probably wouldn't do a refund. It's been way too long for them to return cake. Their excuses are flimsy. I'd stick to my guns also knowing any complaint they post online about me would be overshadowed by all the glowing reviews I already have.

But Kara brings a valid point - Paypal just reversing a charge. Square and Paypal are not banks, they are privately owned companies (actually I think Paypal is public IPO). They aren't covered by FDIC and don't have very good internal fraud protocols... their protocols are "refund the money when someone complains". They take the money from your account and the merchant has a heck of a time proving no fraud happened. In fact, Paypal is notorious for this, and it's the reason why I don't even have a Paypal account. I do have a Square, but have used it twice. I process all my cards thru Google Wallet. Their merchant protection and fraud detection is stellar. Even if someone tries to claim a chargeback, they don't take the money from my account. As long as I can prove delivery, I'm 100% covered.

Anyway, POS machines and software from your merchant bank account is much more expensive, but has fraud and merchant protection built in - which makes them far superior for processing cards. But who of us can afford those???

I don't think I (or Jason) derailed the discussion, although we bickered a bit we both brought up valid points we felt relevant to a complaint situation, which is the customer may attempt to take the refund in their own hands if you don't give them one (which you said you were not). Jason mentioned them contacting Visa and Visa gives them a refund. I still hold that as untrue, as Visa is not an entity you can contract, but you CAN contact your bank. And your bank will say no way. But contacting Paypal or Square direct is a completely different situation because they aren't banks - so they very well may force one.

double post

Thanks you guys. I didn't sleep last night mulling this all over, and I appreciate all the insight from all your angles. (no I don't take it wrong)

I did consider that they may have worried about taking the cake out too soon. At 100 degrees, that's an issue. The written instructions state to allow the cake to come to room temperature before serving AND that usually we recommend setting it up (safely) at least 30-60 minutes before guests arrive to the reception, which is how we deliver and set up for weddings that aren't picked up by the customer.

Verbally I just said that they'd want to stick as close to that timeframe as possible, especially since they were talking about it going outside and possibly not even in shade. Hopefully my concern about it melting didn't lead to them freaking out and bringing it out of a super cold fridge 20 minutes before they cut it, but who knows.

This m.o.b is one pissed off lady (she wasn't very nice, even when they picked up; I noticed that she wasn't too friendly but figured whatever).

My stance is that I'm not willing to bend to her and give her a bunch of money back because they didn't follow instructions, and also due to the fact that they signed off on being responsible for the storage and setup, and then had the cake in their possession for about 24 hours before it was served. Who knows? They may have put it in a freezer, for all I know. I can tell from her email that she will fly completely off the handle if I deny her money back, but I refuse to let this be the new norm, where if you yell loud enough someone will definitely give you money back just to get rid of you. They just do it everywhere once they think it works, and then all vendors will suffer. I am hearing this behavior being a new habit more and more, and I find it tactless and classless and horrid.

This one was so blatant that I had no trouble disagreeing with her that the cake was not dry, poorly made, or made completely of shortening, because none of that is true.

If they go ahead and bring cake 45 minutes over to me, then what? My dh says I should not let them in with it. I'm not going to eat it with the bride and have THAT conversation "It's fine." "No it's NOT". etc. And if they throw it away here, and go home with nothing, they will come back and say that they returned the uneaten portion (who DOES that?) of a cake and weren't refunded for that portion. I can imagine them even asking for compensation for the wasted trip over here to do all of this. Dh says tell them free anniversary cake is all we will offer; subjective complaints 9 days after the cake was baked, after 24 hours in their posession before serving, nothing can be done in terms of monetary compensation. But he says it's a whole other can of worms to have them come over here and stand here in my shop saying "LOOK at this, it's terrible." Well, yeah, where's it been for the last 10 days? That's not an argument that's solvable.

I'm still mulling this over, but I need to send them some sort of response by tomorrow at the latest, if I'm deciding to have them not come here.

Please feel free to continue to opine. We as vendors do need to understand how best to cover for these situations and avoid them, since even with the best of our work on the line and the most careful transportation situations, I think there are customers who will complain no matter what.

I'd like to add something to our contract about, I don't know, subjective complaints not being a valid argument in terms of monetary refunds, but ? I understand if the cake collapsed because of poor construction, or the flavors were wrong, or it was delivered an hour late, but to ask for money back because it *seemed dry* and *everyone made a face when they ate it*, is not a reasonable request and I will not be dictated to by these women about what's going on, in terms of who is getting refunds from this bakery.

double post

If I were in this situation I would taste the cake, if it didn't taste right (after accounting for the time passed) there would be an immediate 100% refund, if it tasted fine I would pro-rate the refund based on how much cake was returned. Then I would blacklist the entire family from any future orders.

Is this customer trying to get free cake? Maybe. But in my view it's better to give a partial refund to someone who doesn't deserve it than to refuse to compensate a customer with a genuine grievance. These days, the amount of bad P.R. a pissed-off customer can generate will usually outweigh the cost of a refund. And if a customer is willing to drive 45 minutes to get their refund, they are probably pretty pissed-off.

I recognize that you may not like this customer, but as a business owner it's important to put your personal feelings aside and do what's best for your business.

I think a token offer like a free anniversary cake would probably just make the situation worse. I also don't agree with a clause that says subjective complaints are not valid, if I read that in a vendor's contract it would make me think the vendor does not stand behind the quality of their work, and if you are targeting the premium market that is a must.

The "premium market" here are the ones who bitch and moan the most, they seem to think the world is their servant. When the country club ladies who lunch walk into a consult my radar goes up waiting for pickiness.

I wouldn't offer an anniversary cake either. I also wouldn't have her drive with the cake to you, that's just opening a can of worms. I'd keep it long distance and ask her what she wanted to do to resolve the situation. You don't have to say okay to what she says, but it would at least give you an idea about what she's thinking.

Dang, I'll defend my product to the death, but I just don't know what I'd do here. The cake was out of your control for nearly 48 hours. Who really knows what happened in that time. This sucks. Who's to say that cake didn't fall over in the car 5 miles down the street because they hit the brakes, and they concocted this story to sound believable. Far fetched I know, but how do you really know?

I'd be tracking down a venue stat and talking to them. I know you said who even knows if there was a venue, but it shouldn't take more than little Googling if your town isn't too big. I'd find bridey on Facebook, and if she has a public friend list, start there. See if anyone checked in somewhere on Saturday that looks right, and go from there. Something isn't adding up here. Time for some detective work!

Edited to add: Spokane, ok, kinda big place huh?

I have never eaten a cake that was 9 days old and not frozen. IMBC while delicious I'm sure, will not taste well after this long. Like others have stated, who knows where this cake has been and what it's been through.

I wouldn't offer a free anniversary cake. If they didn't like my wedding cake, what makes me think they will want another cake from me especially if they are this angry.

You say that the MOB complained that the cake tastes like there was shortening in it. Bring up her complaints and address each one. I would offer her a partial refund. But certainly not a substantial amount.

Jason, Im sorry, but at this point I dont think she will give any good reviews whether she gets the refund she desires or not.

buttttt...just my opinion.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you . I would only.communicate in email .I would ask how they stored the cake ? I'm wondering if they possibly froze it and it did not have time to thaw. I m sure it didnt taste like shortening .Saying that alone suggests scam to me .because you did not use shortening..
I believe you made a wonderful cake .
I seriously doubt that guests were not eating your cake .Unless it wasnt stored or served properly by being too warm or too cold . I would email them several questions and or be prepared to ask when/if they show up. I also would not stand and be yelled at.This just sounds like they had cake left and are just trying to get some money back . If there is nothing you can do offer them a small refund and be done with the whole family and ban.them from your facebook.
I would maybe write a post on my facebook on properly storing IMBC cakes.
I have a feeling they may not show up .
Please let us know the outcome.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you . I would only.communicate in email .I would ask how they stored the cake ? I'm wondering if they possibly froze it and it did not have time to thaw. I m sure it didnt taste like shortening .Saying that alone suggests scam to me .because you did not use shortening..
I believe you made a wonderful cake .
I seriously doubt that guests were not eating your cake .Unless it wasnt stored or served properly by being too warm or too cold . I would email them several questions and or be prepared to ask when/if they show up. I also would not stand and be yelled at.This just sounds like they had cake left and are just trying to get some money back . If there is nothing you can do offer them a small refund and be done with the whole family and ban.them from your facebook.
I would maybe write a post on my facebook on properly storing IMBC cakes.
I have a feeling they may not show up .
Please let us know the outcome.

First of all, you did the right thing telling them to wrap the cake really and freeze until they bring it back to you. It will be interesting to see just how well they wrapped it.
Now if the wedding was on Saturday and the cake tasted that bad, why did they leave until the Wednesday to make the complaint? If it was that bad that everyone at the wedding felt the need to complain about this awful cake, wouldn't this be something you would do first thing Monday morning?
I would not let them into your home. Take the cake from them, thank them for bringing it all the way back and let them know you will be examining the cake to see what went wrong and you will be in touch in due course.
You need to check how much of the cake they bring with them. Is it just the cake that wasnt cut or is there cut pieces as well?
Taste the cake. You know what it should taste like, so have they tampered with it?
You have time now to mull this over without being on display. If you feel there is nothing wrong with cake, go back to them, maybe in writing, and explain that you have examined the cake and in your opinion there is nothing wrong. The taste and texture is as it should be. Explain you have made this cake many times before and find it strange that they feel the need to complain about this cake as usually you have nothing but good reviews. You are also very meticulous when baking and decorating cakes. I am sorry that you have felt the need to complain, but unfortunately, on this occasion I will not be offering any form of compensation as I feel there is no just cause for the complaint. However, if you feel there is cause for complaint and wish to take this further, please feel free to do so.
This just stinks of them trying to get some money back. I hope I have helped in some way. Good luck.

First of all, you did the right thing telling them to wrap the cake really and freeze until they bring it back to you. It will be interesting to see just how well they wrapped it.
Now if the wedding was on Saturday and the cake tasted that bad, why did they leave until the Wednesday to make the complaint? If it was that bad that everyone at the wedding felt the need to complain about this awful cake, wouldn't this be something you would do first thing Monday morning?
I would not let them into your home. Take the cake from them, thank them for bringing it all the way back and let them know you will be examining the cake to see what went wrong and you will be in touch in due course.
You need to check how much of the cake they bring with them. Is it just the cake that wasnt cut or is there cut pieces as well?
Taste the cake. You know what it should taste like, so have they tampered with it?
You have time now to mull this over without being on display. If you feel there is nothing wrong with cake, go back to them, maybe in writing, and explain that you have examined the cake and in your opinion there is nothing wrong. The taste and texture is as it should be. Explain you have made this cake many times before and find it strange that they feel the need to complain about this cake as usually you have nothing but good reviews. You are also very meticulous when baking and decorating cakes. I am sorry that you have felt the need to complain, but unfortunately, on this occasion I will not be offering any form of compensation as I feel there is no just cause for the complaint. However, if you feel there is cause for complaint and wish to take this further, please feel free to do so.
This just stinks of them trying to get some money back. I hope I have helped in some way. Good luck.

Boy, this is a tough one. In my opinion, there's fault at both ends of this. I think you're correct in that the cake was probably cold and that's why it tasted dry and the "shortening" comment probably comes from the "mouthfeel" of IMBC not necessarily the taste -- have you ever put cold IMBC in your mouth? It is similar to the feeling of putting a cold pat of butter in your mouth - nasty! once it melts it tastes fine, but the initial shock can be a bit disheartening if you're not familiar with it and the closest thing people can relate it to is shortening because that's what they assume all icing is made out of.

You may have given them step but step instructions and the maybe the followed them and maybe they didn't but, from personal experience, there is no way the middle of three tier cake will come to "room temp" in 30 to 60 minutes. I've cut into cakes that were refridgerated overnight and had been out for 4 hours and was shocked to find the centers of the stacked tiers (particularly the larger bottom ones) to still be cold and the filling solid.

So even though you were "c.y.a" but giving specific instructions, it still may not have been enough, especially for someone with no cake experience. Unfortunately, your only real fault here is the lack of a contract. By listing specific terms i.e. they assume all respsonsibility for the condition of the cake, etc. once it leave your premises if it is picked up and issues as far as quality, etc. must be reported withing 24 hours, etc. etc and having them sign off of this, it releases you from these type of incedents (or at least gives you a leg to stand on).

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how I would proceed in this situation either. It sounds like you're confident in the quality of your product so I guess I would say stand behind it. At this point I wouldn't be comfortable in tasting the leftovers, as other posters of said, who knows what they've done to it. I would email her (for paper trails sake and you can follow up with a phone call) and explain that you've thought it over and unfortunately due to the time that has elapsed, etc. that tasting it at this point would be moot. Then kindly explain to her all that you've already expressed here regarding your cake and never having a complaint about it before, etc.

Although you could offer her a free anniversary cake, I wouldn't think that someone that's not happy with how your cake tasted would really want another one. Maybe a small refund or nothing at all. It sounds like no matter what you do, she's not going to be happy (well, unless she get's her money back, lol!)

Good luck!

I agree that you shouldn't put a clause about "subjective taste". I'd run from that so fast. To me that screams, you don't have confidence in your own product so I have to trust your word it's good enough. Not to mention, you still have the law of merchantability. And it wouldn't matter if you determined something was good enough, it would come down to a customer taking you to court to show a cake didn't taste good enough. And this after the possibility of losing lots of customers upfront who would not trust that clause. You could put something in your contract that gives 24 or 48 hours to return any cake that didn't taste right (not the wording I'd use, but the idea)

I still have it in my gut that the mob knew she planned to do this before they even picked up the cake. Ordered more than they needed and figured they could get money back on any unused portion, rather than order the size they really needed.

omg you guys. So much info.

I know, the clause idea is ridiculous, but geez. When did it get to be OK to expect money back a week later because you remember a steak you had last week and you're sure it seemed like it was too rare? but I digress. don't worry-I won't add it of course.

The mom emailed me when she got home to Oregon yesterday and said that she hadn't had time (?) until now.

So far they are still planning to bring it over Friday. And so far I'm still planning to tell them at this point it's of no use to bring me 10-day-old cake. She said they had 'most of the top and the whole middle" tier left, but who knows.

I will keep everything to email for a paper trail and will probably offer an explanation that her description of their issues seems to indicate that the cake wasn't set out early enough to be served when it wasn't solid cold (again, what kind of fridge or cooler was it in? freezer? who knows). I think it was a home wedding, so no venue info.

They said it traveled fine and looked great, but just the flavor issue is her thing. My husband and a long time restaurant owner I know are both saying tell her to work for it; don't offer anything, they didn't follow the instructions, they had it 24 hours, too many variables. If she wants to pursue it, bring it on.

I don't know which direction I will go still, but I will have to deal with it tonight or tomorrow, before they come here Friday, because I do think that's a bad idea.

Her visa was paid through Intuit Merchant Solutions to my bank account, if that matters. By phone. No signature.

in the words of Linda Richmond... "DISCUSS"

I don't what discussion had occurred in regard to delivery of the cake. Providing there was a discussion, that could be a point of reference for them to show why it is better to pay the delivery fee than to pick up a cake yourself. Just getting the cake there safely isn't all that matters, it's all in proper storage and timing of setup.

I have to agree with your husband on this. I think you're very much on top of this, but still, just be sure to maintain your composure. And keep in mind that if they get angry, loud, etc., your best revenge is to remain calm. When they holler they are attempting to get the better of you and the more you remain calm, the more frustrated they will become because they can't get you upset. Plus, you'll feel better about yourself when it's over and you'll have the added benefit of them knowing they couldn't get under your skin.

Good luck.

I just really think that you shouldn't let them show up with ten day old cake trying to show you that it's dry. It will prove nothing and will only open the door for them to harass you in person.

I've been thinking about this a lot. Your plan of letting them bring in a 10 day old cake, and then to tell them it was "no use to bring in a 10 day old cake" may be counter-productive. That might enrage me further (were I your crazy m.o.b.), if I followed your directions and then you said "well it's no use" after I got there.

If they have so much cake left, they ordered too much cake. They can't have it both ways - "everybody" couldn't have been talking about how bad the cake was if hardly anyone ate it. Maybe there was lots of beer and booze at the reception. Maybe they didn't cut it until people had started leaving. It's impossible to tell. But I think if it were me, and my business, I would go with what your first instinct was, which was to offer a free anniversary cake, and your apology that the cake did not meet their expectations. But your cake had no shortening, and they tasted it before they ordered it, which you can gently remind them (although I'm sure they''ll say it doesn't taste like the tasting cake). But they complained too late for me to believe this is really about the taste or true dissatisfaction. I think they just were pissed that they had so much leftover cake.

Edited to add: I'm thinking about how the cake cutting works at every wedding I've been to, or participated in: The cake cutter cuts cake, and someone else runs the plated cake out to the guests at their tables. The cutter keeps cutting until all guests who want one have a plate of cake in front of them. Logically, did someone run up to the cake cutter, waving their arms and screaming "Stop cutting the cake! It's bad! No one wants any!" It just doesn't make sense to me. They had too much cake.