kaztayli Posted 26 Jun 2012 , 12:09am
post #1 of

Does anybody know how I can scale up a recipe? I am losing sleep as I can't get my hands on the tin until the day before the party.

I need to scale up from a 18cm round tin to a 33/35 cm square tin.

Thank you

17 replies
CarolWI Posted 26 Jun 2012 , 1:14am
post #2 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaztayli

Does anybody know how I can scale up a recipe? I am losing sleep as I can't get my hands on the tin until the day before the party.

I need to scale up from a 18cm round tin to a 33/35 cm square tin.

Thank you




Not sure if this is helpful, but in converting from a round pan to a square pan, generally you reduce the round cake tin size by 2 cm (1 inch) to arrive at the equivalent size of square cake tin.So a 20 cm (8 inch) round cake tin can be switched for an 18cm (7 inch) square tin and a 23cm (9 inch) round tin can be switched for a 20 cm (8 inch) square tin. So a 36 cm(16 inch) round tin can be switched for a 34 cm (15 inch) square tin. I would just do a double batch and make it easy on yourself. Maybe use up a little of your batter for about 3 cupcakes so you can treat yourself.

Pearl645 Posted 26 Jun 2012 , 3:43am
post #3 of

Just out of curiosity, have you doubled this recipe before and is it a scratch recipe? I have noticed a lot of my scratch recipes don't scale up well at all. Once I double or worse triple a scratch recipe, the cake is pretty much good to be stoned at someone. Somehow it has a drier finish. Like the flour to liquid ratio doesn't work well for scaled up scratch recipes for me. Even the batter is heavier and stiffer. Hence, I stick to oil recipes or doctored mixes (for the most part). Of course, you may have better luck than me.

matthewkyrankelly Posted 26 Jun 2012 , 4:01am
post #4 of

You want to know how many times bigger the rectangular pan is than the round?

Assume they are the same height, and compare areas of the pan bottoms:

Round pan area is the radius squared times pi = 9x9x3.14 = 254

Rectangle pan, multiply sides = 33 x 35 = 1155

Then, divide 1155 by 254 = 1155/254 = really close to 4.5

So, whatever cake you made for the round, make four and a half for the rectangle.

BakingIrene Posted 26 Jun 2012 , 2:11pm
post #5 of

About scaling up recipes: there is more mixing involved. I would never scale up a recipe that calls for vinegar+baking soda to be added at the end because as you mix longer, you lose all that gas.

I only bake cake with the creaming method. The fat and sugar need to be creamed longer, and then there is the creaming time of 1 minute per egg times more eggs.

It becomes vitally important to sift the baking powder/soda with the flour to make sure they are well mixed before they go into the larger batter.

The cake can become drier when the flour is being added just because you are mixing it longer and developing the gluten. It is important to be able to FOLD the flour in by hand using a larger/wider bowl and larger spatula, in order to not overwork the batter.

Quite frankly, I use a different balance of leavener for large batches: I use more acidic liquid and baking powder alone because the acid will tenderize the gluten during baking. If you substitute buttermilk for regular milk with NO OTHER CHANGES you will see an improvement in the cake texture for a 3X batch.

Pearl645 Posted 26 Jun 2012 , 3:06pm
post #6 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakingIrene

About scaling up recipes: there is more mixing involved. I would never scale up a recipe that calls for vinegar+baking soda to be added at the end because as you mix longer, you lose all that gas.

I only bake cake with the creaming method. The fat and sugar need to be creamed longer, and then there is the creaming time of 1 minute per egg times more eggs.

It becomes vitally important to sift the baking powder/soda with the flour to make sure they are well mixed before they go into the larger batter.

The cake can become drier when the flour is being added just because you are mixing it longer and developing the gluten. It is important to be able to FOLD the flour in by hand using a larger/wider bowl and larger spatula, in order to not overwork the batter.

Quite frankly, I use a different balance of leavener for large batches: I use more acidic liquid and baking powder alone because the acid will tenderize the gluten during baking. If you substitute buttermilk for regular milk with NO OTHER CHANGES you will see an improvement in the cake texture for a 3X batch.




Thanks for this info. I use the folding in method for flour when I scale up my recipes but still got a cake that just wasn't as light and moist as the unscaled recipe because of the overworking of gluten, naturally. I never thought about using more acidic ingredients to help tenderize gluten. Great advice here.

BakingIrene Posted 26 Jun 2012 , 3:16pm
post #7 of

And for large scale chocolate cake, I use un-dutched cocoa and no baking soda. I use only recipes that have you blend the cocoa with boiling water. Even if no milk is added, these always come out tender in sheet pan scale.

kaztayli Posted 14 Jul 2012 , 10:20am
post #8 of

I finally spoke to a baker friend of mine and she told me to make 1 and a half times the mixture.

She explained it something like this.

I have an 8" tin and want to scale up to a 12" tin. 12-8 = 4 which is half of 8 and therefore I need to half my recipe and add it which equals making one and a half of the mixture.

Does that make any sense????

mcaulir Posted 14 Jul 2012 , 10:37am
post #9 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaztayli

I finally spoke to a baker friend of mine and she told me to make 1 and a half times the mixture.

She explained it something like this.

I have an 8" tin and want to scale up to a 12" tin. 12-8 = 4 which is half of 8 and therefore I need to half my recipe and add it which equals making one and a half of the mixture.

Does that make any sense????




Nope - the maths doesn't work that way. It's volume that matters, not diameter.

Assuming you put batter in the tin 2 inches high:

An 8 inch tin uses 100 cubic inches of batter.

A 12" tin uses 226 cubic inches of batter.

More than double.

MisterCakePro Posted 14 Jul 2012 , 1:09pm

I worked in every size production from retail bakeries to factory bakeries with massive equipment. Scaling up for retail bakeries is simply multiplying recipe ingredients. But when factory equipment is used, then the balance changes. Don't want to fight with anyone. This is my experience.

yortma Posted 14 Jul 2012 , 2:35pm

The area of the 18 cm diameter pan is 254 cm squared (see nice calculation above). Remember - if your current recipe fills 2 pans then it is good for 508 cm squared. The 33 by 35 pan is 1155 cm squared. Divide 1155 by 508 = 2.27 or roughly 2 1/4. If you double the recipe you will get a thinner square layer than you get for each of the 2 rounds. If you make 2 1/2 times, you will have a slightly taller square layer. I use both the Double Chocolate Layer Cake on Epicurious or the Deluxe Devil's Food cake on the Softasilk cake box using Hershey's extra dark cocoa. They are both great cakes and they both double just fine. Doubling either of these over fills an 11" by 15" pan (1064 cm squared) with some batter left over. Your square pan is slightly larger and would probably be just perfect for either of these recipes doubled. I have doubled them both many times with no problems. I have never needed to make more than that. I'm not sure that even my 7 qt kitchenaid would handle much more. For these larger pans, I use flour nails as heat cores and use the bake even cake strips. HTH

cakeyouverymuch Posted 14 Jul 2012 , 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakingIrene

About scaling up recipes: there is more mixing involved. I would never scale up a recipe that calls for vinegar+baking soda to be added at the end because as you mix longer, you lose all that gas.

I only bake cake with the creaming method. The fat and sugar need to be creamed longer, and then there is the creaming time of 1 minute per egg times more eggs.

It becomes vitally important to sift the baking powder/soda with the flour to make sure they are well mixed before they go into the larger batter.

The cake can become drier when the flour is being added just because you are mixing it longer and developing the gluten. It is important to be able to FOLD the flour in by hand using a larger/wider bowl and larger spatula, in order to not overwork the batter.

Quite frankly, I use a different balance of leavener for large batches: I use more acidic liquid and baking powder alone because the acid will tenderize the gluten during baking. If you substitute buttermilk for regular milk with NO OTHER CHANGES you will see an improvement in the cake texture for a 3X batch.




When scaling up, would it work to replace part of the flour with cornstarch to improve the texture? Also, have you ever used powdered buttermilk? I don't use enough buttermilk to make it economical to buy, it generally goes bad before I can use it up, though I suppose I could freeze it. . . .

Pearl645 Posted 14 Jul 2012 , 4:58pm

Hmm I've never had any luck freezing dairy products like buttermilk, sour cream or heavy cream. When they come down to room temperature it looks as if it has separated..water from fat or something. Let me know if anyone has successfully frozen buttermilk.

cakeyouverymuch Posted 14 Jul 2012 , 5:09pm

An 8 in x 2 in round pan takes (on average) 3.5 cups of batter. A 16 in x 2 in square pan (on average) takes 15.5 cups of batter. If your current recipe does two 8 x 2 in pans, you'll want a little more than two recipes to fill your larger pan. I'd go 2.5 times your current recipe and use the extra two cups of batter to make some cupcakes.

Jpr2005 Posted 29 Sep 2012 , 7:50pm

I have been reading some fantastic advice re scaling recipes and quantities, but how does the scaling relate to cooking times?

BakingIrene Posted 29 Sep 2012 , 11:20pm

Baking time is not the same as scaling up the mass of cake.

It depends on so many factors including the exact heat distribution in a specific oven. If I bake a 9" layer for 25 minutes, then a 12" layer takes about 40 minutes when I keep the oven on at a constant temperature.

VERY important to use the magic cake strips for larger cakes to prevent a larger hump and therefore more waste.

Basically, for a larger cake of the same depth, you give it 30 minutes, then you give it a 180 turn, and then you monitor the smell and colour. Make notes because you will have a good idea for the next time.

For deeper cakes, you should lower the oven after the first 30 minutes, to allow the centre to cook properly.

Jpr2005 Posted 30 Sep 2012 , 8:29am

Thanks for the info.

I have seen in one book a table of rough estimates of baking times for a fruit cake mix across different sizes.

However I am trying to work out a similar table for madeira and devils food cake for easy reference.

I know that as time progresses that I will be adjusting the times to suit my own oven but I would like to have a base line to start with.

If you have any more ideas then it would be appreciated.

rosech Posted 30 Sep 2012 , 5:49pm

For me my mixture becomes thinner when I multiply everything equally. For different methods. I wonder why. I have to reduce egg amounts when I tripple or quad.
I do not do complicated convertions, just double, tripple etc. To see how many such tins go into such a tin, I fill one with water and pour into the other and see how many will be required. That is by how much I multiply.

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