Copyright And Buildings; Buckingham Palace

Business By Crazy-Gray Updated 26 Jun 2012 , 3:17am by BlakesCakes

Crazy-Gray Posted 1 Jun 2012 , 1:57pm
post #1 of 36

I've been asked if I will consider a Buckingham Palace shaped/themed cake, but is it legal to reproduce this wonderful building? And for the aid of others; any building at all?
Hope you can advise!
Gray

35 replies
Polarcakes Posted 1 Jun 2012 , 2:17pm
post #2 of 36

It may be best to contact someone from Buckingham Palace to ask for permission to re-create the building using food materials. They may have certain guidelines you must follow etc.

http://www.royal.gov.uk/Contactus/ContacttheRoyalHousehold.aspx#4

jason_kraft Posted 1 Jun 2012 , 2:20pm
post #3 of 36

Architectural works, including the buildings themselves, are protected by copyright. You can request permission to reproduce Buckingham Palace by emailing [email protected]

http://www.royal.gov.uk/Contactus/Copyright.aspx

Crazy-Gray Posted 1 Jun 2012 , 2:40pm
post #4 of 36

Brilliant thank you very much I'll get on to them! ...fingers crossed! ....oh thinking about it they might be pretty busy this weekend lol

SoFloGuy Posted 2 Jun 2012 , 1:37am
post #5 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy-Gray

I've been asked if I will consider a Buckingham Palace shaped/themed cake, but is it legal to reproduce this wonderful building? And for the aid of others; any building at all?
Hope you can advise!
Gray




Go for it, the Queen is not going to send her guards to arrest you, but she may sue you. icon_biggrin.gif

You can take pictures of it, you can make paintings of it, I doubt that the law is in place to protect them from cakes.

scp1127 Posted 4 Jun 2012 , 9:42am
post #6 of 36

Again SoFlo, Jason looked it up and provided pertinent, correct information. Then you come along behind with a post that has no use whatsoever.

Please respect those who take the time to answer correctly.

AmyCakes84 Posted 5 Jun 2012 , 3:53pm
post #7 of 36

I hope you get the go ahead from Her Majesty!! I would love to see your Buckingham Palace cake, your gallery cakes are fantastic!

vtcake Posted 5 Jun 2012 , 8:07pm
post #8 of 36

Other works

Other works (such as sculpture, architecture, etc) will typically vary in copyright term, depending whether the author of the work is anonymous. If the author is unknown, the copyright period ends 70 years after the making of the work; or, if during that period the work is communicated to the public, 70 years after that date. If the author of the work is identifiable, copyright in the work expires 70 years after the death of the author.

from :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_Kingdom

BlakesCakes Posted 5 Jun 2012 , 8:23pm
post #9 of 36

Well, Buckingham Palace was built in 1761 , so I think it's safe to say that the commissioner, designer, architect, & builder are long dead and that it's well out of copyright.

Go for it!

Although I do appreciate "some" of the advice given about this subject here on CC, I've said before that much of it's really up to the baker.

Yes, there are companies that will send out cease & desist orders at the drop of a hat and there are companies that appreciate the homage. You never know which is which.

This, however, is an example of the purely absurd. To even imagine that anyone in the hierarchy of the monarchy would give a rat's patoot about someone making a cake in the shape of a 250 year old building is just stupid. There is such a thing as too much mental.........mmmmmmm.........massage.

Rae

jason_kraft Posted 5 Jun 2012 , 8:37pm
post #10 of 36

The most recent remodeling of Buckingham Palace was in 1913 by Aston Webb. Webb died in 1930, so according to UK law the current design of Buckingham Palace became public domain in 2000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckingham_Palace

SoFloGuy Posted 5 Jun 2012 , 8:38pm
post #11 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by scp1127


Please respect those who take the time to answer correctly.




You should do the same and not assume that you know everything.

jason_kraft Posted 5 Jun 2012 , 8:39pm
post #12 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakesCakes

Yes, there are companies that will send out cease & desist orders at the drop of a hat and there are companies that appreciate the homage. You never know which is which.



That's why you ask permission, to find out if the copyright owner is OK with what you're doing with their IP.

BlakesCakes Posted 5 Jun 2012 , 9:45pm
post #13 of 36

Sorry, nothing is as black & white as you want to make it--thank god.

If it were, 90% of cakes would require written permission from someone in order to be made because many people request cakes based on what they've seen, what they do, a theme, or decoration. The research time alone deciding who to ask would be unreasonable. Heck, even some hybrid FLOWERS are copyrighted.

Jason, you did, originally, tell the OP to ask for permission to make the cake................................

Oh, and I really, really, really, doubt that someone who remodels or renovates ANYTHING has a say in how it's used. Maybe they should have to ask permission from the creator to modify the original...........or are they just creating a parody???? LOL

All of this fear mongering has really gone too far. Education is wonderful, but really.........

It's pretty sad that it's come down to a CC member wanting to make a cake for their own family member--a butterfly with a skinny doll on it---and they feel compelled to come here and ask if they should ask permission--or fear retribution.............Jason, by the way, said he didn't think this example was a problem..................but geez, some people are seeing "reproductions" where they just DON'T EXIST.

If you're worried, ask--if possible. When possible, interpret rather than copy. Rename. Don't post pics.

Rae

jason_kraft Posted 6 Jun 2012 , 12:47am
post #14 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakesCakes

Oh, and I really, really, really, doubt that someone who remodels or renovates ANYTHING has a say in how it's used.



According to copyright law, architectural designs are protected for the life of the creator + 70 years, regardless of whether the design was for renovating an existing building or building a new one.

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Quote:

It's pretty sad that it's come down to a CC member wanting to make a cake for their own family member--a butterfly with a skinny doll on it---and they feel compelled to come here and ask if they should ask permission



I don't see what the big issue is with erring on the side of caution, asking questions about all aspects of the cake business (including copyright) is what CC is all about.

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Jason, you did, originally, tell the OP to ask for permission to make the cake



That was before vtcake posted the helpful link explaining UK copyright law for architectural works. Now, thanks to someone asking a copyright question, I learned something new today. icon_smile.gif

BlakesCakes Posted 6 Jun 2012 , 1:14am
post #15 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft



Quote:
Quote:

Jason, you did, originally, tell the OP to ask for permission to make the cake


That was before vtcake posted the helpful link explaining UK copyright law for architectural works. Now, thanks to someone asking a copyright question, I learned something new today. icon_smile.gif




Well, you are so pedantic about so many things, one is led to believe that you would have been well aware of this fact before posting, especially having advised someone to NOT create something that may have been very time-sensitive.............This IS the Jubilee week............

Sad to learn something at the possible expense of another.........really.

Rae

jason_kraft Posted 6 Jun 2012 , 1:48am
post #16 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakesCakes

Well, you are so pedantic about so many things, one is led to believe that you would have been well aware of this fact before posting, especially having advised someone to NOT create something that may have been very time-sensitive.............This IS the Jubilee week............



I offer my humble apologies for not always immediately having the right answer, in this thread I simply posted how I would handle the situation. In hindsight, limits on this type of copyright do make sense, and in this case the current building design did pass into public domain surprisingly recently. Other buildings with more recent renovations (of the facade at least) may still be protected.

Quote:
Quote:

Sad to learn something at the possible expense of another.........really.



Yes, truly a tragedy. The world's smallest violin is now playing just for you. icon_cool.gif

BlakesCakes Posted 6 Jun 2012 , 2:07am
post #17 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft


I offer my humble apologies for not always immediately having the right answer, in this thread I simply posted how I would handle the situation. In hindsight, limits on this type of copyright do make sense, and in this case the current building design did pass into public domain surprisingly recently. Other buildings with more recent renovations (of the facade at least) may still be protected.

Quote:
Quote:

Sad to learn something at the possible expense of another.........really.


Yes, truly a tragedy. The world's smallest violin is now playing just for you. icon_cool.gif




Yes, you couldn't possibly know everything, could you?
icon_rolleyes.gif

I'm sure that this was just a minute item that eluded your radar icon_wink.gif

I'm sure it won't happen again icon_twisted.gif

A violin, for me????????
I don't need the violin music. I DIDN'T give incorrect advise.......
But enjoy fiddling, if it makes you feel better icon_lol.gif

Rae

jason_kraft Posted 6 Jun 2012 , 2:15am
post #18 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakesCakes

I DIDN'T give incorrect advise.......



The reasoning for your advice was incorrect since the current state of the building is the result of a more recent renovation of the facade.

</pedant>

BlakesCakes Posted 6 Jun 2012 , 2:26am
post #19 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakesCakes

I DIDN'T give incorrect advise.......


The reasoning for your advice was incorrect since the current state of the building is the result of a more recent renovation of the facade.

</pedant>




So you initially give completely incorrect advice to the OP.......................and that's OK, but you find my reasoning so egregious that I'm supposed to be apologetic?

Your initial argument was flawed and you may have prevented someone from doing something that would have been perfectly OK, but you so need to be seen as right, so you'll duck & weave until you feel vindicated?

Well, keep boxing in the wind.............and wear that pedant pendant proudly!!!

Rae

jason_kraft Posted 6 Jun 2012 , 2:32am
post #20 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakesCakes

So you initially give completely incorrect advice to the OP.......................and that's OK



Nope, I was wrong. It happens sometimes.

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but you find my reasoning so egregious that I'm supposed to be apologetic?



No apology necessary, I find your replies to be quite amusing actually. icon_smile.gif

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Your initial argument was flawed and you may have prevented someone from doing something that would have been perfectly OK, but you so need to be seen as right, so you'll duck & weave until you feel vindicated?



I'm not sure what you mean by "duck & weave". My first post was based on my view of the situation and how I would have handled it personally. That view was shown to be incorrect, so my next reply was based on the facts introduced by vtcake. If changing your opinion when someone introduces new relevant facts that affect said opinion is "ducking and weaving" then I suppose that's what I do.

JWinslow Posted 6 Jun 2012 , 3:01am
post #21 of 36

I've read quite a few threads on the copy write issue, one I participated in, and I get the whole protection of brand thing - I really do, but on my emotional side I just want to scream. I sometimes feel it is out of control and I want to know how eggs sugar and flour are a threat to any business. It is my understanding that UK bakers will not be allowed to make the Olympic rings and the games are in England-just crazy. There, I vented!
BTW, I do appreciate all the information that is passed along - thank you

BlakesCakes Posted 6 Jun 2012 , 3:10am
post #22 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft


No apology necessary, I find your replies to be quite amusing actually. icon_smile.gif




I'm so glad to be able to shed some sunshine into your little pinhole camera of life.

I welcome the opportunity to widen that aperture.

Rae

jason_kraft Posted 6 Jun 2012 , 3:28am
post #23 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWinslow

I've read quite a few threads on the copy write issue, one I participated in, and I get the whole protection of brand thing - I really do, but on my emotional side I just want to scream. I sometimes feel it is out of control and I want to know how eggs sugar and flour are a threat to any business. It is my understanding that UK bakers will not be allowed to make the Olympic rings and the games are in England-just crazy. There, I vented!
BTW, I do appreciate all the information that is passed along - thank you



I agree, copyright really is out of control, both in terms of scope and how it is enforced (IP owners typically have huge sums of money at their disposal and can bully defendants into settlements). It is unlikely these laws will be relaxed anytime soon, given lobbying efforts by Disney and other organizations that rely on IP for their existence. The International Olympic Committee is one of the worst in this regard, as their brand makes them about a billion dollars a year from sponsorship and licensing.

I liken it to the cottage food law issue...in limited circumstances (i.e. a cake made at home for your family) there should be exemptions to copyright laws so people don't have to worry about this stuff, and for small businesses that meet certain criteria there should be compulsory licenses available to allow limited commercial use of copyrighted characters for reasonable fees. Unfortunately the law as it stands now is confusing and difficult for the average person to follow, but the law is the law.

JWinslow Posted 6 Jun 2012 , 3:43am
post #24 of 36

Thanks Jason icon_smile.gif

BlakesCakes Posted 6 Jun 2012 , 3:49am
post #25 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWinslow

It is my understanding that UK bakers will not be allowed to make the Olympic rings and the games are in England-just crazy. There, I vented!




Yep, they refused to allow the British Sugarcraft Guild to use the Olympics as the theme for their fall 2012 show.................

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2037418/London-2012-Olympics-Copyright-laws-ban-bakers-icing-cakes-logo.html

Wow! Just shows how horridly shortsighted some can be...........no money to be made by the exhibitors, but TONS of free publicity related to the games.

When ICES was as Disney World, Disney asked that any cake using one of their characters, etc. have a disclaimer placed with it stating that it was for showing a technique and couldn't be reproduced without their permission.
So, lots of the display room cakes had little yellow cards next to them. It worked just fine. Heck, the Disney people were reveling in all of the displays.

The IOC would make a lot of UK friends if they'd offer short-term licensing to bakers a reasonable price. They'd make a few bob and everyone would be happy. But that takes creativity....................

Sad.
Rae

Annabakescakes Posted 6 Jun 2012 , 4:00am
post #26 of 36

Image

JWinslow Posted 6 Jun 2012 , 4:03am
post #27 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annabakescakes

Image





LOL

Annabakescakes Posted 6 Jun 2012 , 4:14am
post #28 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWinslow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Annabakescakes

Image




LOL




Image

Crazy-Gray Posted 6 Jun 2012 , 7:39am
post #29 of 36

Lol thanks everyone! icon_smile.gif

Just to say I received a lovely emailed permission this morning thanks to jason_krafts advice which pretty much repeated vtcakes advice so thanks to you both, especially Jason, the email I was lovely and a pleasure to receive! icon_smile.gif

Cake due on the 22nd so keep an eye on the gallery on the 23rd June- really looking forward to this one!

Thanks again everyone!

scp1127 Posted 6 Jun 2012 , 8:13am
post #30 of 36

The reason some of us are cautious is because we don't know how soon the law will catch up to the web on this issue. You can make a cake today and be charged two years from now. And we have posted what the individual fines can be.

What cake baker can even afford to do business if she is charged even $2000.00 per cake at a later date. We are just stating what is happening in other industries and in this one. The information is here purely for the individual to be able to make an informed decision.

A home baker can make any cake she wants. She just runs a risk when it's uploaded onto the web.

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