Note directed at Leah only using it as an example of the kind of self-serving justification that routinely appears in this forum.
This is simply a self-serving justification for aggressive and insulting responses. Have seen this excuse posted more than once---if you want flowers and hugs go to the decorating forum, if you want people to tell it straight come here. Whether or not those describe the general orientations of each forum, they do not account for how "one tells is straight." There is a difference between offering constructive advice designed to educate and engaging in presumptuous lecturing underwritten by a tone of self-righteousness. One need look no further than responses which include "our children are watching" for instances of things that go beyond educating or helping address legal questions. They smack of self-righteousness (as if the poster is morally pure) and are insulting by explicitly questioning the parenting skills of the poster.
You want to help people become legal? Fine. You want to help clarify questions about what constitutes copyright infringement? Fine. You want to explain to someone how pricing decisions include any number of calculations including licencing fees, inspections? Fine. But note, that response does not require you to questions one's legal status first. You simply provide the information when asked what would you charge for X.
Providing that information without asking does not make a presumption about the poster's legal status as it factually states all the costs that you must calculate into a pricing scheme. If they do not have those costs well that is for them to decide to what to do with the information, it is informative and instructional without becoming self-righteous lecturing. This kind of response is a far cry from beginning a post based on the question "are you legal?" or trying to deduce their legal status by what they have posted.
If you are concerned about aiding an unlicensed operation then do not respond. If your reason for responding is that is helps others who may see the thread, then why do you care if they are legal? You are not interested in helping the original poster so you should not worry about uncovering their legal status because you note--the information is not for them. You don't want things to turn into a flame look to your own practices before you accuse others.
And there is most certainly a difference when you insult other posters (whose personal situations you have no idea about) parenting skills. Since when did business discussions include discussions of parent skills? That you are telling it "straight" does not excuse presumptuous, abusive, aggressive, and/or insulting discourse.
VERY well said.
Second that! So well said, it needs to be framed on here.
CAN I GET AN AMEN!?
Allrighty, my 2 cents...
I don't ever see bullying here. This site is practically Disneyland. If you feel bullied here I suggest turning off your computer permanently and giving it to charity because it's a scary, big, mean world out there, and I dare say you might not be able to handle it.
...........
sound advice
well I can't post the link to the thread that had me in tears for 2 days as it was removed by cake central because it had gotten so abusive.... however, the same names showed up here over and over again. It is constantly the same people that turn things negative and chalk it up to "telling it straight" or "if you didn't want to hear my opinion, you shouldn't have posted int he first place". It's like the anonymous mob mentality kicks in and they just start attacking - all the while saying "I'm not attacking you". Please, you can rationalize your behavior all you want, but at the end of the day there is a right way and a wrong way to talk to people, no matter the content or topic.
And secondly, not everyone that posts questions in the business forum is a novice. Perhaps someone just has a specific question about a specific situation. Who are you to then go on criticizing every aspect of that persons business? Who's to say the way you run your business is better than they way they run theirs? I was attacked repeatedly about everything from my pricing structure to my businesses website, however I went on to a few of the people's website that were criticizing mine and some of them were laughable. But I know that if I DARED say anything about anything that had to do with their business it would have been like throwing gasoline on a fire.
Bottom line is that most of the constantly negative posters would probably feel much differently if the tables were turned on them...
I understand exactly how you felt. I have posted a couple of times and had the same few come on and started making me feel bad. Some on here are so afraid of being scammed by a fake post, that they are quick to call someone out, or are so angry at illegal bakers, or scratch vs box bakers that they can't contain their dislike for the practice. Why they can't just ignore it, I will never understand. Then they will call you thin skinned or emotional, but we can't help the way it makes us feel. We all aren't the same, and I would hate to make anyone feel bad, so I would choose my words carefully. We don't know what is going on in someones life, and we should think about that before we say something negitive. I have had to shut down a thread I had. Every time I came on cc it was still going on, so it was stressful each time. So I hope you understand we aren't all business savvy and developed a thick skin, we are here to look at beautiful cakes, and enjoy our day. I was never going to post again about controversial topics, but saw your post and wanted you to know, that I know how you felt.
If you mean continual response to a flame war as "defending" yourself....I just don't get why you would allow yourself to get worn down and exhausted, step away from the computer..
Agreed, it is so much easier to just ignore these types of posts and focus your energy on replying to posts that are worthy of consideration. Even if it extends onto FB, you have complete control of your own site and can delete posts and ban people at will.
But, as an observation of mine, the entire time I have been a member of this board, there have always been people that have felt others are rude, mean, bullyish...etc...last year there was a big ban of some members who were thought to fall into that category, and yet here we are....still discussing the same issue a year later
Things have improved quite a bit over the past year, flame wars don't happen as often as they used to. Even the discourse in this thread is much more civil than the last one (the "special list" thread).
I honestly think that it's the passion that we all have for the art. Whether it is the baking, decorating, or the business aspect of it.
I had never felt attacked on here until last month. I took a deep breath and walked away because I didn't feel the need to fuel that persons comment. I'm almost positive that my comment struck a nerve because of something they had been through on a personal level. I even apologized. I may have commented on threads on days when I was frustrated and responded harshly. We alll have at least once. We all have taken something personal because we love what we do.
My point is we really are here for the same reasons. Even if I don't like something someone has posted, I can't make it a point to dislike them as a person because I don't know them. I love everyone on here, they all help me in one way or another. I bet if we were all put in the same room we would get along much better.
Just from reading your post before this one I got a very negative vibe from you so maybe its you. Flour is processed, butter is too every is processed to some extent. Don't take this the wrong way but sometime we need to self asses.
Since The_Sugar_Fairy brought it up, I will share what I said that was so offensive.
She wanted to only bake from scratch. She then asked if she could put artificial pudding in her scratch cake. I answered yes, but it would not really be a scratch cake anymore. I said that if she stated that her cakes were from scratch, then the client will believe that the ingredients are scratch and not processed.From there she accused me of demeaning her abilities and about twenty other things I did to her personally. Remember, the whole thread was about her learning to bake from scratch.
Since then, every time I post in either the scratch or business threads, if she sees it, she takes the time to again point out what a horrible person I am. i just laugh every time I see it. She was the one that launched an all-out attack. Go through her posts and you will see what I mean. It's in black and white (or pink and purple). Please notice that I have not attacked her, but this is public notice that I see the game.
Seems to me that pointing that out (that the cake would no longer be considered scratch with pudding in it) is splitting hairs, especially since she wasn't asking for everyone's opinion on how "scratch" it would be if she did add it in. She just wanted to know how it would affect the outcome of the cake, if it would improve it or not.
This kind of nit picky thing is exactly what people get sick of on CC.
Seems to me that pointing that out (that the cake would no longer be considered scratch with pudding in it) is splitting hairs, especially since she wasn't asking for everyone's opinion on how "scratch" it would be if she did add it in. She just wanted to know how it would affect the outcome of the cake, if it would improve it or not.
This kind of nit picky thing is exactly what people get sick of on CC.
And that's what I'm talking about
And I would bet that if I asked 10 of my friends and 10 strangers if they thought added a pudding mix to an otherwise "scratch" cake would no longer considered "scratch," they would all look at me like I was crazy. I think the average nonbaker wouldn't even think twice about it.
I was beating myself up a bit for being too thin skinned, too sensitive. Now I see that I wasn't the only one feeling this way. Thank you to all that posted about how they feel.
I've always lived by the phrase "treat others the way you would like to be treated"... even on internet forums. Just because you can be anonymous on the internet doesn't give you the right to say whatever you wish!
Like someone mentioned, you never know what someone is going through personally. You may be kicking someone when they are already down. Also, no one is better than anyone else on this site, not if you have your own business or if you bake from scratch... we all have our strengths, talents and weaknesses!
By the way LoveMeSomeCake, I LOVE your signature, lol!
"Before you ask- I'm licensed, inspected, insured, and all that jazz 
"
Here's a perfect example: http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopicp-7275929.html#7275929
Sheesh!
Here's a perfect example: http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopicp-7275929.html#7275929
Sheesh!
If you're implying that you don't contribute to the bullying, I'm not convinced.
http://cakecentral.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=7274279&highlight=#7274279
I'm surprised that Unlimited let this one go while you were having your fun saying "You're all wrong", not answering when you were first asked if you were joking but later claimed it was a joke because you used a 
and a , then made another insult AND admitted you were being rude!
I suppose we should all educate our children that it's okay to say whatever you want as long as you smile while saying it or use a and a .
Here's a perfect example: http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopicp-7275929.html#7275929
Sheesh!
Wow! That was nasty.. particularly the post right after the OP (the one that was obviously reported). It was mean and unnecessary.
Regarding Tails post (in the thread that was attached as well)... not too big of a deal really, looked to me like she was just teasing or joking with all the faces. I don't consider that bullying as it wasn't a personal attack. Sorry if anyone disagrees with me there.
I think we've all made the odd rude comment as we get fed up sometimes. It's when the majority of your posts are rude (or condescending) or when one of your posts is extremely nasty - that's when there's a problem.
con·de·scend·ing (knd-sndng) adj.
Displaying a patronizingly superior attitude
An example of condescending is a parent who speaks to her grown child as if he were still a toddler.
Another example is thinking that you are better than someone else because you bake from scratch or because you own your business. When this condescending attitude comes across in almost every sentence of your long and frequent posts, that's a problem!
con·de·scend·ing (knd-sndng) adj.
Displaying a patronizingly superior attitude
An example of condescending is a parent who speaks to her grown child as if he were still a toddler.
Another example is thinking that you are better than someone else because you bake from scratch or because you own your business. When this condescending attitude comes across in almost every sentence of your long and frequent posts, that's a problem!
And yet another example is supplying a dictionary definition for a commonplace word.
Seriously though, at this point I'm not sure how productive it is to keep calling out examples of people being rude. This will happen in any community, and there's not much you can do about it except ignore it and do you best to stay on topic. Incidentally, this is exactly what the OP did in the Angry Birds thread until other people started complaining about the original rude post, which eventually drove the thread off topic.
con·de·scend·ing (knd-sndng) adj.
Displaying a patronizingly superior attitude
An example of condescending is a parent who speaks to her grown child as if he were still a toddler.
Another example is thinking that you are better than someone else because you bake from scratch or because you own your business. When this condescending attitude comes across in almost every sentence of your long and frequent posts, that's a problem!
And yet another example is supplying a dictionary definition for a commonplace word.
Seriously though, at this point I'm not sure how productive it is to keep calling out examples of people being rude.
Now if this is not the best example of the pot calling the kettle black. For someone who says to ignore such things, lead by example.
Now if this is not the best example of the pot calling the kettle black. For someone who says to ignore such things, lead by example.
This thread is all about discussing these types of responses, so it is on-topic here. In a thread about cake decorating or pricing it is not.
You make playing dumb an art form. For someone who links google and has himself given dictionary descriptions, you are a hypocrite for evening saying anything to Sugar Fairy about it. And I think her point was if you are trying to be helpful, how about doing it without being so condescending. You do not have to scream on every response how great you are, and this is not directed to you, but a general statement. And here is the true funny about CC. People are here in cycles. 4-5 years ago if you constantly ranted about copyright and legality, you would have been slammed. Not because poeple didn't believe in being legal, because that wasn't the question asked. Yes, I am a much older member who left and came back, but then that happens on here a lot as well. I think it's funny those who think they are the queen bees around here are only so, because they are so many newbies that come in those cycles as well. Some need to toughen up like Sherrycanary said and some of you just really need to get over yourselves.
All she was asking was how to price something. Sadly, before anyone else could answer, ASSumptions were made and she had to delete her post. Hope this all changes one day. Kudos to all the ones who are speaking up.
http://cakecentral.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=7266318&highlight=#7266318
vpJane
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:38 am Post subject:
All she was asking was how to price something. Sadly, before anyone else could answer, ASSumptions were made and she had to delete her post. Hope this all changes one day. Kudos to all the ones who are speaking up.
http://cakecentral.com/modules.....t=#7266318
I have to say, Jason, you have been very diplomatic throughout this thread, and I do appreciate that. But she has you here, and you also attacked me in a past thread as well about something completely off-topic from my original post.
That being said, if you are turning over a new leaf and recognizing that you may have been wrong in the past, then I applaud you for that. I wish some of the others who are constantly trolling the forums looking for their opportunity to climb up on their soapbox would take a break from cake and eat some humble pie.
All she was asking was how to price something. Sadly, before anyone else could answer, ASSumptions were made and she had to delete her post. Hope this all changes one day. Kudos to all the ones who are speaking up.
http://cakecentral.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=7266318&highlight=#7266318
If you reread my post, you will see that I was careful to avoid making assumptions. I asked what state the OP was in (which impacts cost structure), and I mentioned that a legal business needs to figure out their cost before pricing, which includes ingredients and labor cost. I did not include overhead because I was waiting for OP to say what state she was in, as the answer would change how much overhead is required.
I'm still not sure why she deleted her post, I give this same advice to people in threads all the time and the vast majority are appreciative.
Could you clarify which assumptions I made that were so hurtful?
Actually the only reason I added the dictionary definition was because I was looking it up for myself to see if I had the right word ,I can be dumb that way sometimes (so it wasn't at all to be superior). Then I realized that the definition describes exactly what's happening so I decided to post it.
I guess I just want a certain few to think before they start typing. Ask yourself, "is what I'm about to say hurtful?" If the answer is yes, don't bother responding.
you also attacked me in a past thread as well about something completely off-topic from my original post.
Which thread was this? Feel free to PM if you don't want to post it publicly.
People are here in cycles. 4-5 years ago if you constantly ranted about copyright and legality, you would have been slammed. Not because poeple didn't believe in being legal, because that wasn't the question asked.
I'm ignoring your personal attacks but I will address this point...in my opinion the change of attitude re copyright and legality is not a cyclical thing, it is more like a paradigm shift brought on by an influx of business-minded contributors coupled with the recent introduction of Cottage Food Laws in several states, bringing legal issues to the forefront when in the past they would not even be considered. It is difficult to imagine CC going back to not talking about these types of issues, especially when there is a dedicated business forum.
I guess I just want a certain few to think before they start typing. Ask yourself, "is what I'm about to say hurtful?" If the answer is yes, don't bother responding.
Agreed, except everyone should be thinking that, not just "a certain few". Everyone should also think to themselves before they post if what they write will add value to the public discussion, and if not then consider sending a PM or just abstaining.
I guess I just want a certain few to think before they start typing. Ask yourself, "is what I'm about to say hurtful?" If the answer is yes, don't bother responding.
Agreed, except everyone should be thinking that, not just "a certain few". Everyone should also think to themselves before they post if what they write will add value to the public discussion, and if not then consider sending a PM or just abstaining.
Well said. I completely agree with you Jason.
By the way Jason, I just wanted to say... I've never had an issue with you. I don't consider you to be "a certain few" at all. I think maybe we had a disagreement once (I can't remember exactly what and I actually think it was me that said something a bit rude) - then you PMed me and we very respectfully worked it out. As far as I can see, you give really good information, although I've never gone through all your posts or anything. I'm just saying personally that I respect you and your advice.
Agreed, except everyone should be thinking that, not just "a certain few". Everyone should also think to themselves before they post if what they write will add value to the public discussion, and if not then consider sending a PM or just abstaining.
This is wonderful in theory, except there are those on here that don't believe there is any value to the thread until they've given their two cents (which in their opinion will likely be the most valuable piece of information anyone has ever heard).
Until then, chose your battles. Some people just aren't worth it, and that is their problem, not yours.
@ sherrycanary62 well said!! these self appointed cake cops policing the boards, checking folks credentials. don't give them any power over you. don't let them rent space in your head while they are moving along with their lives. they asks folks about their legal status and give friendly reminders about legalities. i have never asked a question that warranted a citatation by the cake cops but i would open read other peoples posts and it is very evident that lots of folks have to be processed before they recieve any feedback. and it could an innocent post question.[/quote]
By the way LoveMeSomeCake, I LOVE your signature, lol!
"Before you ask- I'm licensed, inspected, insured, and all that jazz
"
Thanks! It saves time.
Quote by @%username% on %date%
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