So Frustrated.....i Just Hope The Bride Misunderstood...

Business By Pebbles1727 Updated 25 Mar 2012 , 5:15am by Apti

The_Sugar_Fairy Posted 21 Mar 2012 , 3:20pm
post #31 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakesbycathy

Tell the bride to raise all holy hell with the venue since this was not something that was required when she booked.




I agree!

I'd be PISSED if I was the bride. What right do they have one month before her wedding to tell her this!? If I were the bride, I'd be getting a lawyer or contacting the newspaper to do an article on it, so other bride's are aware!

FromScratchSF Posted 21 Mar 2012 , 4:11pm
post #32 of 70

Devil's Advocate - giving the venue the benefit of the doubt, maybe they didn't push the issue in the past, but maybe they very-recently got busted by the their city for not requiring their vendors have a license. I'm sure there are consequences for them allowing non-licensed vendors, just as there are consequences for you for doing business in an area that requires you to be licensed. it's not up to us to pick and choose what laws we follow, you shouldn't expect the venue to do the same and make exceptions because you don't like them. You know what I mean?

Bottom line - If it's a city/county requirement that you pay a fee for doing business in their area, it's not the venue's fault for following it.

As a business person, I wouldn't be mad at anyone but myself. As harsh as this may sound, it's nobody else's responsibility but yours to make sure your business is legal and has all the appropriate permits, licenses, insurance etc. It ain't the venue's responsibility. Sure, I'd be irritated, I may even be pissed because obviously I wouldn't be the only one looking like a dope right now, but I'd put on my professional "I Got This Covered, Bride, And You Have Nothing To Worry About" face.

You quite possibly are in in breech of your own contract by not being licensed in that area. My contract is pretty extensive, but "not being licensed and not having the money to pay for it" or "I don't want to pay for the license because I don't see the monetary benefit" aren't cancellation exceptions. Earthquake? Yes. Zombie Apocalypse? Yes. Don't want to get the license for the area in order to fulfill said contract? No.

So think about how the bride, in a hyper-sensative over-emotional state- is probably perceiving YOU (everyone) right now - I can only put myself in her place - but honestly I'd be thinking that all the businesses I contracted with that don't have licenses to do business where my wedding is are complete idiots, and anyone that isn't doing whatever they need to do to be legal this late in the game would not only never get my business again, but I'd never refer business to them ever and quite possibly blame them for ruining my wedding. I'd be thinking, you are the professionals that do this all the time, how could you not know? And if a vendor asked me, the bride, to pay the fee, I'd go from freaking out to nuclear. I'd probably call you very colorful names and tell you to go fornicate with yourself, followed by telling you that I expect a cake to be delivered per our contract otherwise I'll sue the poo-poo out of you.

Sounds harsh - but this isn't a normal person you are dealing with, you are dealing with a bride. icon_biggrin.gif

So, if I were you, I'd find the money and pay the fee ASAP with a smile, then start advertising "Licensed to do business in XXX!" to compensate for it.

Good luck!

cakelady2266 Posted 21 Mar 2012 , 4:48pm
post #33 of 70

I wedding vendor friend of mine had this happen to them. The reason for this was some of the wedding vendors in a neighboring city got tired of brides hiring vendors from other areas and taking away what they thought should be their business. So they pushed for this law to be enforced. I'm sure these vendors have higher overhead being as many of them were storefront business, so they charged higher prices for their goods than vendors in the surrounding area. Therefore more customers were going to vendors that prices were less.

Now as far as the health code, I'm not sure. But this is my opinion. Since the State of Alabama issued me a permit then it's good for the entire state, seeing as how the codes apply statewide, regardless of enforcement. As far as the taxes, yeah I get that but since that cake was manufactured in my license, inspected and permitted shop and I'm paying sales taxes in the county it was manufactured then why are taxes due where it is delivered? Let's say you buy a dress in New York but you live in Maryland you don't have to pay taxes on it again when you get it home.

If the venue did not make the bride aware of this at the time of booking them they are at fault. If this is a rule that has just been implemented or they have starting enforcing then she should be "grandfathered in." Meaning she was on the books before hand so it shouldn't affect her event. Just my opinion.

As far as having a business license for every county or city I delivery too is insane in my opinion. I deliver to many cities and counties and if I have to have business license in all of them I'll have to add more walls to my shop.

Pebbles1727 Posted 21 Mar 2012 , 4:54pm
post #34 of 70

LOL, Devil's advocate (From Scratch)....you made me laugh, I know you probably didn't mean to, but some comments were still funny. The venue belongs to the city, it is a City Civic center, and the requirement is new. I have just got off the phone with them. It apparently applies to anyone who is working the venue, and does not apply to me since I'm just delivering. The lady was supersweet and I have asked her to double check just to make sure we don't have a surprise on the wedding date. I'm strongly considering getting that city's business license just to go on their preferred vendor list though. And you are right, I can vent about it as much as I want to, but in the end of the day, the right thing to do is to suck it up and get the license....just in case icon_biggrin.gif

Pebbles1727 Posted 21 Mar 2012 , 5:02pm
post #35 of 70

Hi Cakelady! I'm in Alabama too! Maybe out state is just weird icon_biggrin.gif


Quote:
Quote:

As far as the taxes, yeah I get that but since that cake was manufactured in my license, inspected and permitted shop and I'm paying sales taxes in the county it was manufactured then why are taxes due where it is delivered? Let's say you buy a dress in New York but you live in Maryland you don't have to pay taxes on it again when you get it home.




You see I think it's the most confusing part to me. I don't understand why I'm supposed to do that, plus that means that I have to charge each bride different tax depending on where their venue is. However, when I shop in another city, noone asks me where I'm from and charges me that tax rate, they charge me whatever tax is at their location. So if the bride comes to my shop, signs contract in my shop, writes me a check at my shop, I'll end up having to charge her for county sales, state tax, MY city tax and then city tax for the neighbouring city because that's where her venue is? Screwed up....very screwed up

FromScratchSF Posted 21 Mar 2012 , 5:05pm
post #36 of 70

I was trying to be serious, but in a funny way icon_biggrin.gif

PS - I really do have "Zombie Apocalypse" listed in the natural disaster section of my contract. It's like an Easter Egg hidden in it and people find it hilarious (the ones that actually read, that is!)

ncsmorris Posted 21 Mar 2012 , 6:43pm
post #37 of 70

I thought this was interesting so I went to research a city near me (but not the city where my business is sitused). This is on their business license, so it DEFINITELY could be legit...
"Who Must Pay Tax - Any person who conducts business within the city, either by maintaining a business location within the City limits OR, either personally or through agents, solicits business within the city, or picks up and/or delivers goods or services within the City limits, is liable for the Citys Business License fees unless specifically exempted by State law or local ordinance..."

I guess I'll make sure to get these for all nearby cities...thanks for bringing this up! I thought it was just the city in which my business is located!

bmarlow001 Posted 21 Mar 2012 , 7:07pm
post #38 of 70

I would think if it was not stated in the original contract then they have no leg to stand on with this.. she should be able to bring in who she has already hired. This cannot be sprung on a bride only a month away from her wedding!

FromScratchSF Posted 21 Mar 2012 , 7:32pm
post #39 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmarlow001

I would think if it was not stated in the original contract then they have no leg to stand on with this.. she should be able to bring in who she has already hired. This cannot be sprung on a bride only a month away from her wedding!




State and local laws supersede any contract between private parties and businesses. If the venue is enforcing a law, then they are actually doing what they are supposed to be doing. Not following the law is not following a law, and you can't contract around it or not want to follow it because it was "sprung" on you. Yes, this has come up last minute, but that isn't the venue's fault (although the OP already said the venue was incorrect and she does not actually need a license after all, so in this instance I'd be fuming at the venue for upsetting a bride without making sure they knew what they were talking about).

BUT - Hypothetically, if a baker DID find out they needed a license to do business in a city they don't reside in, that is only the baker's fault for not checking something like that sooner, not the venue and not the bride. It's the business owner's responsibility to make sure their business is covered.

Pebbles1727 Posted 21 Mar 2012 , 8:00pm
post #40 of 70

Well, the plot thickens, LOL. I think I'm now more confused about the tax situation more than the business license, so I called my city. They tell me that if a customer pays for the cake at my location, i'm responsible for paying sales tax to my city, regardless of where I deliver the cake or it gets picked up. The other town says that they consider transaction not complete until cake is delivered, so I have to pay their city tax as well. So......... I called the state.... they tell me that both cities are correct in their thinking, but I cannot double charge the city sales tax. Well, duhhh icon_confused.gif So, now I'm waiting for the whole lot of people to talk this out and come up with what i'm supposed to....

FromScratchSF Posted 21 Mar 2012 , 8:16pm
post #41 of 70

You pay city sales tax on a take-away food product? What state are you in again? In California sales tax is not collected on food unless it's consumed on-site where the food was sold. Example, Beyond Buttercream doesn't collect or pay sales tax on the cakes I sell because I don't have a storefront. Once I open one, I'll need to start collecting sales taxes on any food consumed on my location, but I still wouldn't collect sales tax on a cake I deliver

I DO pay taxes on income to the state/feds. Different topic.

No, you can't double collect taxes either way. You pay taxes to the city/county you reside.

Pebbles1727 Posted 21 Mar 2012 , 8:33pm
post #42 of 70
Quote:
Quote:

You pay city sales tax on a take-away food product?




Yep...state, county, and city. The cities don't seem to agree of which one I'm supposed to be paying if cakes are delivered. At this moment both cities want their tax, which they cannot do. That's why I had to call the state. Someone is wrong. With the license though, city has a right to ask me to have a license because they consider delivery as a part of conducting business. The venue is flip flopping now, and have no idea what they are going to do because apparently other vendors are livid. The venue belongs to the city, it is not private, so I'm assuming when it comes down to it, they'll have to enforce whatever city tells them to enforce. What a mess though....

Apti Posted 21 Mar 2012 , 8:41pm
post #43 of 70

Pebbles~~I've been following this out of curiosity. "What a mess" is right. Goodness! I am waiting with bated breath for the State's solution.

Talk about a Catch 22.

Pebbles1727 Posted 21 Mar 2012 , 9:01pm
post #44 of 70
Quote:
Quote:

Pebbles~~I've been following this out of curiosity. "What a mess" is right. Goodness! I am waiting with bated breath for the State's solution.

Talk about a Catch 22.




I know, I'm bracing myself for someone to post that I made this whole thing up just to get people going, because the further I go with this, the more weird the whole thing becomes, LOL I promise, I didn't make it up icon_lol.gif

Apti Posted 21 Mar 2012 , 9:20pm
post #45 of 70

No worries. I worked for 30 years in the medical health care field and dealt with medical insurance issues every day (and in my dreams at night). At this point I'll believe just about anything that has to do with State or Federal agencies.

One thing I learned long ago was to call the same office 3 times and make sure I got the SAME answer 3 times. I cannot tell you how many times I would get 3 different answers......

Unless I got the same answer 3 times, I would FORCE them to provide a WRITTEN statement of the "answer". I cannot tell you how many times I would have them screech to a halt and gasp and say, "I can't put that in writing!"

As Yul Brynner said in "The King and I":
"Is a PUZZLEMENT!"

FromScratchSF Posted 21 Mar 2012 , 11:19pm
post #46 of 70

OMG what a mess!!! Let this be a lesson to the venue though, make sure you know your crap before getting a bride riled up.

Keep up posted!

PS, having to collect all that tax... ug, what a pain!

traci_doodle Posted 21 Mar 2012 , 11:47pm
post #47 of 70

Wow. Just, wow. Good luck! I have to agree it seems like the venue screwed up on this one. I hope things clear up soon!

step0nmi Posted 22 Mar 2012 , 12:02am
post #48 of 70

daaang, i would NOT want to be cleaning this one up. i hope you get a definite answer and really don't have to pay 3 diff taxes.

louanne Posted 22 Mar 2012 , 5:09pm
post #49 of 70

You should just pay taxes to your city, as long as No transaction of money ( delivery fee, etc) is taking place in the other city. If all monetary transactions are taking place in your city and you are just delivering the cake you should not have to pay their taxes. It would be like them trying to make people pay taxes on items bought online and delivered to their home.

Will they make her pay taxes on decorations bought online and delivered? No. so they should not be able to mandate a taxing on a cake being delivered from out of town where no transaction took place in their city.

If they really push it arrange to meet someone at an alternate location other than the venue and have them deliver the cake, then you are taken out the equation ( not ideal but an option). Now if you were performing cutting or serving duties at the venue it might be different but just delivering the cake should not be an issue, but since it is a city owned building they are probablly trying to push a "live here, buy here" strategy.

Either way good luck!

louanne Posted 22 Mar 2012 , 5:11pm
post #50 of 70

You should just pay taxes to your city, as long as No transaction of money ( delivery fee, etc) is taking place in the other city. If all monetary transactions are taking place in your city and you are just delivering the cake you should not have to pay their taxes. It would be like them trying to make people pay taxes on items bought online and delivered to their home.

Will they make her pay taxes on decorations bought online and delivered? No. so they should not be able to mandate a taxing on a cake being delivered from out of town where no transaction took place in their city.

If they really push it arrange to meet someone at an alternate location other than the venue and have them deliver the cake, then you are taken out the equation ( not ideal but an option). Now if you were performing cutting or serving duties at the venue it might be different but just delivering the cake should not be an issue, but since it is a city owned building they are probablly trying to push a "live here, buy here" strategy.

Either way good luck!

itsacake Posted 22 Mar 2012 , 6:21pm
post #51 of 70

In California, if you buy something on the internet )or in another state where sales tax is not collected and then bring it into California,) you are supposed to report it to the state and pay a use tax in lieu of sales tax. I think that up til now this has not been enforced very much if at all, but it is on the books. This is most of the reason that there is a movement to force Amazon and other internet companies to collect sales tax. Local tax revenues are being impacted because people are buying online to avoid sales tax and then are not reporting and sending in their use taxes.

http://www.boe.ca.gov/ads/news06.htm#1

As always, advice gleaned from what people think on forums like this may be worth what you pay for it.....

Pebbles1727 Posted 22 Mar 2012 , 6:35pm
post #52 of 70
Quote:
Quote:

You should just pay taxes to your city, as long as No transaction of money ( delivery fee, etc) is taking place in the other city.




I'm stil waiting for the state to get back to me. The issue is the difference of opinion of what the "transaction" means. My city is looking at it as exchange of money, in which case the above statement is correct, and the neighboring town looks at it as exchange of goods, thus transaction is completed when cake is delivered, which happens within their city limits. As per my conversation with the state yesterday, the way the regulations are written both interpretations are correct and apparently there is nothing in regulations that specifically addresses deliveries. I'm not inclined to get brides to pick up their multitiered cakes and set them up themselves just to avoid this difficulty. Considering the proximity of our towns, this is not a one time problem.
I did go and get additional business license yesterday, even though when I got there, they told me I really didn't need it and it was ridiculous--proof that right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. icon_sad.gif

Pebbles1727 Posted 22 Mar 2012 , 6:37pm
post #53 of 70

double post

Pebbles1727 Posted 22 Mar 2012 , 6:39pm
post #54 of 70

tripple post icon_confused.gif

Pebbles1727 Posted 22 Mar 2012 , 6:41pm
post #55 of 70

ok, now, my post was not THAT important, LOL

Pebbles1727 Posted 22 Mar 2012 , 6:43pm
post #56 of 70

icon_lol.gif

Bridgette1129 Posted 22 Mar 2012 , 7:09pm
post #57 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by FromScratchSF

I was trying to be serious, but in a funny way icon_biggrin.gif

PS - I really do have "Zombie Apocalypse" listed in the natural disaster section of my contract. It's like an Easter Egg hidden in it and people find it hilarious (the ones that actually read, that is!)




thumbs_up.gif

Apti Posted 22 Mar 2012 , 8:56pm
post #58 of 70

[quote="Pebbles1727"]

Quote:
Quote:


I did go and get additional business license yesterday, even though when I got there, they told me I really didn't need it and it was ridiculous--proof that right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. icon_sad.gif




Good grief.

cakelady2266 Posted 23 Mar 2012 , 3:31am
post #59 of 70

Yep, that would be Alabama for you. Not only does the right hand not know what the left hand is doing, it is totally unaware of it's existence. And if one hand is ever made aware of the other hand it will plot against it.

cakeandpartygirl Posted 23 Mar 2012 , 2:27pm
post #60 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakelady2266

Yep, that would be Alabama for you. Not only does the right hand not know what the left hand is doing, it is totally unaware of it's existence. And if one hand is ever made aware of the other hand it will plot against it.




I just finished reading this whole thread and trust me Alabama is not the only state with that problem! icon_eek.gificon_cry.gif

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