kisamarie Posted 7 Mar 2012 , 10:41pm
post #1 of

Just to let people know that it's not a joke.... I was just notified by my internet provider that I have been reported as committing Copyright Infringement from my IP address. I went and deleted my character cakes out of my gallery but there is one I need CC to delete for me because the number of favorites. It may not be my cakes and it may be something my 16 year old son downloaded, but I'm not taking any chances, I personally can't afford a huge fine and would rather not go to jail, don't know 'bout the rest of y'all!!!

28 replies
karateka Posted 7 Mar 2012 , 10:47pm
post #2 of

Do you have character cakes posted anywhere other than on CC?

kisamarie Posted 7 Mar 2012 , 10:51pm
post #3 of

I had them on my facebook page but I deleted them as well.

cashley Posted 7 Mar 2012 , 11:15pm
post #4 of

Copyright infringement from your service provider is something that was downloaded to your system whether music, games ect. It is not your pics of your cakes

kisamarie Posted 7 Mar 2012 , 11:23pm
post #5 of

That may be the case but I would rather be safe than sorry. It's not worth risking my business over.

SoFloGuy Posted 2 Jun 2012 , 7:12pm
post #6 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by kisamarie

I personally can't afford a huge fine and would rather not go to jail, don't know 'bout the rest of y'all!!!




It's more of a civil (monetary) matter than criminal, they are not going to put you in jail for something like this.

jason_kraft Posted 2 Jun 2012 , 9:30pm
post #7 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFloGuy

Quote:
Originally Posted by kisamarie

I personally can't afford a huge fine and would rather not go to jail, don't know 'bout the rest of y'all!!!



It's more of a civil (monetary) matter than criminal, they are not going to put you in jail for something like this.



Copyright infringement can be a criminal offense if certain criteria are met (for example, if the infringement is for profit).

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#506

SoFloGuy Posted 2 Jun 2012 , 9:52pm
post #8 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFloGuy

Quote:
Originally Posted by kisamarie

I personally can't afford a huge fine and would rather not go to jail, don't know 'bout the rest of y'all!!!



It's more of a civil (monetary) matter than criminal, they are not going to put you in jail for something like this.


Copyright infringement can be a criminal offense if certain criteria are met (for example, if the infringement is for profit).

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#506




No home baker is in jail for putting a character on a cake and then selling it. No prosecutor is going to ask for jail time for a "crime" like this. Disney is not going to waste money trying to prosecute you and making themselves look bad in the meantime.

jason_kraft Posted 2 Jun 2012 , 10:00pm
post #9 of

I'm simply quoting the law, which does state that copyright infringement can be a criminal offense. These types of cases rarely see the inside of a courtroom as it is usually cheaper for both parties to settle out of court, but in particularly egregious cases jail time is a possibility.

I agree that a copyright owner pursuing a criminal case is not likely, but IMO it's better to just follow the law instead of hoping certain provisions of the law you're breaking won't be enforced in the future.

Also, the statute of limitations for criminal copyright infringement is five years and three years for civil, so if a copyright owner discovers infringement 4-5 years after the fact their only option would be a criminal case.

jason_kraft Posted 2 Jun 2012 , 10:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashley

Copyright infringement from your service provider is something that was downloaded to your system whether music, games ect. It is not your pics of your cakes



Not necessarily. If a service provider maintains web space for its customers, and infringing pictures (of cakes or anything else) are posted to that web space, the copyright owner may contact the service provider which would take down the pictures and inform the customer of the infringement. In fact if the service provider does not do this they may lose liability protection under the DMCA Safe Harbor provisions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_harbor_%28law%29

Of course OP does have the right to find out from the service provider which items were infringing, so there's no need to guess.

scp1127 Posted 3 Jun 2012 , 5:51am

SoFlo, some of us actually look this information up before we post. I know this is an open forum, but rebuttals without merit will not get you a win on the debate team.

The law clearly states that a number of copies of 10 or more will change a civil violation into a federal crime. It is at the the discretion of the property holder and courts to persue it in federal criminal court. Coming on a forum and posting that it is ok will not only mislead people who are trying to make a decision for their business, but it will become a result of search engines, thus spreading incorrect information to a much wider audience than just CC. This is why I always suggest that people look up laws and safety issues themselves and use offiicial site. There is too much wrong information on the web passed off as truth.

BakingIrene Posted 4 Jun 2012 , 3:04pm

Go to the Wilton website and download the info sheets on Disney character pans. They clearly show that Disney has licensed Wilton to create those images as pans, and that Wilton has licensed a factory to make those baking pans, for users to reproduce Disney characters in cake.

Now at the very bottom of the pan insert it says "for home use only" in fine print.

So Wilton should have a statement on their website explaining how commercial baking enterprises are to use these licensed pans...because Wilton also claims to sell to commercial establishments.

And Facebook should respond in writing to exactly WHAT on your page might be an infringement.

Finally, people should know that modern photocopiers store all the images, and the owner of each copier pays a per copy fee to copyright holders at the end of each year. Wilton could facilitate a similar arrangement (like a fee of $1 per commercial cake baked from their character pans) so that cottage bakers could be allowed to pursue their business in peace.

jason_kraft Posted 4 Jun 2012 , 3:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakingIrene

Finally, people should know that modern photocopiers store all the images, and the owner of each copier pays a per copy fee to copyright holders at the end of each year.



You're saying that everyone who owns a modern photocopier looks at every single copy made during the entire year, identifies the copyright owner of the scanned image, and contacts each copyright owner to pay a license fee? What's your source on that?

jgifford Posted 4 Jun 2012 , 3:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFloGuy

Quote:
Originally Posted by kisamarie

I personally can't afford a huge fine and would rather not go to jail, don't know 'bout the rest of y'all!!!



It's more of a civil (monetary) matter than criminal, they are not going to put you in jail for something like this.




Jail is not the issue here - - how many of us could afford several hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines? And yes, that can happen.

SoFloGuy Posted 4 Jun 2012 , 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft



Of course OP does have the right to find out from the service provider which items were infringing, so there's no need to guess.




That's a great suggestion. Especially in case someone else in your household is using your computer to download movies or music online that you don't know about. Actually it may not be your computer if they have a smart phone or other device like a tablet that connects to your wireless wifi it could be something that they are downloading with that.

BakingIrene Posted 4 Jun 2012 , 3:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by BakingIrene

Finally, people should know that modern photocopiers store all the images, and the owner of each copier pays a per copy fee to copyright holders at the end of each year.


You're saying that everyone who owns a modern photocopier looks at every single copy made during the entire year, identifies the copyright owner of the scanned image, and contacts each copyright owner to pay a license fee? What's your source on that?




It's done automatically by the software also installed on the copier. Ask your local copy shop.

jason_kraft Posted 4 Jun 2012 , 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakingIrene

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by BakingIrene

Finally, people should know that modern photocopiers store all the images, and the owner of each copier pays a per copy fee to copyright holders at the end of each year.


You're saying that everyone who owns a modern photocopier looks at every single copy made during the entire year, identifies the copyright owner of the scanned image, and contacts each copyright owner to pay a license fee? What's your source on that?



It's done automatically by the software also installed on the copier. Ask your local copy shop.



I find it hard to believe that a piece of software can automatically recognize the content and context of a scanned image of varying quality, determine whether or not the copy falls under fair use exemptions (in which case no license is required), and determine who currently owns the copyright and how to contact them.

It also makes no sense that a third party would be responsible for paying the license fee for copies that you make, given that said third party does not have control over what you are copying.

Color copiers do contain special software that can recognize the specific pattern on currency to prevent counterfeiting, but given the number of copyrighted images in circulation it would be impossible to create a database of said patterns to recognize anything more than a very specific subset of images (like currency).

FromScratchSF Posted 4 Jun 2012 , 4:24pm

Wow there is a ton of fear mongering going on lately. Everyone really needs to take a chill pill on this stuff.

OP, I believe if your ISP has notified you then it possibly something you or a family member downloaded.

But this isn't 1995 - IP addresses don't mean as much as they used to, and can can duplicated and mirrored by hackers. I've personally seen it done and know at least 15 people that can do it right now. It's very possible that you haven't had anything to do with any offences but your IP was randomly used by someone doing shady stuff. It literally happens all the time. That's why internet crimes are so hard to trace, identify and prosecute. And Jason, since you are computer programmer (not an attorney or baker) you should know this to be the case.

Heck, someone can easily just hack into your Wifi or internet connection and use your internet, downloading whatever illegal stuff they want.

IF it was Disney or another copyright holder that caught wind of you making a character cake, you would not be hearing about it from your ISP. You'd be getting a C&D letter direct from the attorneys representing those companies.

If it was related to pictures you posted in Facebook, then Facebook would just delete the pictures and shut down your profile.

I'm just using common sense here.

JWinslow Posted 4 Jun 2012 , 4:45pm

I just got off the phone with the copy write attorney for Sesame Workshops (he called me in response to a permission inquiry). Very nice man, BTW.
I am making an Elmo cake this month and wanted some clarification on doing Sesame Street characters and putting my finished cake up on my FB and CC pages.
1. Sesame Street Workshops will not give permission for any of their characters to be recreated for professional bakers because it causes conflict and competition with their business partnerships (ie Wilton).
2. I am not a professional baker and this is for a present. As long as I am NOT using the cake for professional promotion, advertising or receiving compensation in anyway he felt it was wonderful that a child would want an Elmo cake.
3. I can put up my cake on my FB page (not a professional cake site) and CC because I am just showing "What I accomplished".
4. If I ever open a business in anyway I CANNOT use this Elmo cake for promotion. I will have to pull it from my portfolio.
I tried to get a number where a professional could obtain permission. He would not give me one.
So, at least I'm good to go for now. Hope this info was useful in some way.

jgifford Posted 4 Jun 2012 , 5:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWinslow

I just got off the phone with the copy write attorney for Sesame Workshops (he called me in response to a permission inquiry). Very nice man, BTW.
I am making an Elmo cake this month and wanted some clarification on doing Sesame Street characters and putting my finished cake up on my FB and CC pages.
1. Sesame Street Workshops will not give permission for any of their characters to be recreated for professional bakers because it causes conflict and competition with their business partnerships (ie Wilton).
2. I am not a professional baker and this is for a present. As long as I am NOT using the cake for professional promotion, advertising or receiving compensation in anyway he felt it was wonderful that a child would want an Elmo cake.
3. I can put up my cake on my FB page (not a professional cake site) and CC because I am just showing "What I accomplished".
4. If I ever open a business in anyway I CANNOT use this Elmo cake for promotion. I will have to pull it from my portfolio.
I tried to get a number where a professional could obtain permission. He would not give me one.
So, at least I'm good to go for now. Hope this info was useful in some way.




Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but I'd get something in writing. JMO

jason_kraft Posted 4 Jun 2012 , 5:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FromScratchSF

Heck, someone can easily just hack into your Wifi or internet connection and use your internet, downloading whatever illegal stuff they want.



If you were to challenge the copyright notice (which would potentially require spending a ton of money on a lawyer) that might be a defense, since it is indeed trivial to use someone else's wireless network if it has not been properly secured. Another defense could be that your computer was compromised by malware and had been downloading and/or uploading copyrighted items without your knowledge, which is again very common.

FYI there's no need to be paranoid about your IP address. Most residential internet users are behind a proxy (a server that stands between your computer and the internet), and while it is possible to modify internet communication headers so someone else appears to be communicating from your computer, this involves significantly more effort than stealing wireless service or installing malware. You don't need to worry about this type of attack unless you are a high value target, in which case you should retain the services of an information security professional (not a computer programmer).

It would be much easier to just find out what the infringement was, that way you would know for sure if you or someone in your family were responsible.

Quote:
Quote:

IF it was Disney or another copyright holder that caught wind of you making a character cake, you would not be hearing about it from your ISP. You'd be getting a C&D letter direct from the attorneys representing those companies.



Correct, but if you posted copyrighted Disney images you would indeed hear about it through your ISP via a DMCA takedown notice. The copyright owner may also have no other way to contact you except through your ISP if there is no contact information available.

JWinslow Posted 4 Jun 2012 , 5:59pm

[/quote]Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but I'd get something in writing. JMO[/quote]

I felt much better after speaking to the attorney. Not so confused and feel I have clear directions. He cannot give permission which would violate their agreements leading into compensation vs.being a gift with no promotion. I feel pretty good about it.

jgifford Posted 4 Jun 2012 , 6:34pm

[quote="JWinslow"]1. Sesame Street Workshops will not give permission for any of their characters to be recreated for professional bakers because it causes conflict and competition with their business partnerships (ie Wilton).

So basically, any professional baker who does a Sesame Street character without using a Wilton pan or something like a decopac is in violation of copyright. Wow. Good to know.

JWinslow Posted 4 Jun 2012 , 6:42pm

I do not know what the rules/laws for selling cakes in these character pans. I don't want to mislead anyone. Please keep in mind I am not a professional baker and was trying to get clarification on a cake (as a gift) I want to put up on my FB and CC pages.

FromScratchSF Posted 4 Jun 2012 , 6:45pm

Jason brings up a good point, you should make sure your computer doesn't have a virus on it also. That is another way someone and exploit your IP addie.

SoFloGuy Posted 4 Jun 2012 , 6:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgifford



So basically, any professional baker who does a Sesame Street character without using a Wilton pan or something like a decopac is in violation of copyright. Wow. Good to know.




As I understand the law any professional baker who uses a Wilton character pan and sells the cake is in violation.

PinkLotus Posted 4 Jun 2012 , 9:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakingIrene

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by BakingIrene

Finally, people should know that modern photocopiers store all the images, and the owner of each copier pays a per copy fee to copyright holders at the end of each year.


You're saying that everyone who owns a modern photocopier looks at every single copy made during the entire year, identifies the copyright owner of the scanned image, and contacts each copyright owner to pay a license fee? What's your source on that?



It's done automatically by the software also installed on the copier. Ask your local copy shop.




I worked in a copy shop (a very large North American chain) for years and this is not true there. We, the employees would not and could not photocopy anything that was copyright protected. We had "self serve" machines that customers could use themselves to photocopy anything they wanted, and we had very large and clear signage advising them that it was illegal to photocopy anything copyright protected, and they were to do so at their own risk.

scp1127 Posted 5 Jun 2012 , 7:23am

I'm sure the internet providers have suspended service to all of those busted in the recent federal busts of fake purses, sports jerseys, etc. So it can happen. And it probably will become more prevalent as the law catches up with the web. If there is money in it, which there is, the attorneys will capitalize. They are smart and can easily find opportunity, especially in this market where their incomes are declining.

icingimages Posted 11 Jun 2012 , 12:43pm

I was involved in a seminar on this subject. First I am not an expert. But I will tell you that in this economy, copyright infringement is an easy way for copyright holders to make easy money. So you see these types of cases on the rise right now.

As far as wilton is concerned, their main target customer bases is not commerical, it is the end user such as the homemaker. While businesses buy their product, their target customer is the person who goes to Michaels and buys decorating items. So it doesnt surprise me that the notices on their products are small. It is the end users resposibility to making sure that they do not break the infringement.

I know that we created iiDesigns because poeple were taking scrapbooking designs and copying them and putting them on cakes. It is hard to tell what is copywritten and what was not so we went out and bought designs with a licnese specifically for the use on edibles by our customers. People think because a design is on the internet, oron one of those clip art programs or in a scrapbook design book that it is fair game, NOT true. It is fine for you to use in your home for personal use, but most of that is not for commercial use or for profit. So it is best to air on the side of caution. You hear all kinds of horror stories and its just not worth it.

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