bonniekaye Posted 16 Feb 2012 , 8:12pm
post #1 of

I just saw this at the MTC (make the cut) web site. I have a cricut and use it with the MTC program. I also have a Silhouette that I probably use 90% of the time. It looks like PC is sueing MTC AGAIN!
http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuits/copyright-lawsuits/wisconsin-eastern-district-court/89652/provo-craft-novelty-inc-v-make-the-cut-llc-et-al/summary/
With this in mind I am going to sell my Cricut Cake machine on ebay and will sell it very cheap (although you can get them for $49.00 now) I don't want anything PC in my shop. It is such a shame. The concept of using the electronic cutters for cake decorating is fantastic. That idea was stolen from the inventor. I use my Silhouette and I can still use MTC, which is a fantastic design program.
I only share this because I know there are many here who are cricut owners and are also dissappointed with their cricut and PC.

29 replies
BizCoCos Posted 16 Feb 2012 , 8:20pm
post #2 of

a liitle unclear, who was the original inventor? of the cricut

sillywabbitz Posted 16 Feb 2012 , 8:26pm
post #3 of

What can they sue them for now. You can't use MTC with the cricut any more.

BozCoCos, Provocraft invented the Cricut. Linda Mclure is credited with using for gumpaste and fondant. There is a very long back story regarding her relationship to PC and I'm not going to get into it here but that said. The companies like Make the Cut that make software to allow you to use any design from your PC with your electric cutter were sued by ProvoCraft because PC wants you to only be able to use their very expensive cartridges. I was given the mini cricut and some cartridges. If I were to buy a new cutter now, I would buy the Silhoutte with MTK so I can design and cut any pattern or font I want.

jason_kraft Posted 16 Feb 2012 , 8:37pm
post #4 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillywabbitz

The companies like Make the Cut that make software to allow you to use any design from your PC with your electric cutter were sued by ProvoCraft because PC wants you to only be able to use their very expensive cartridges.



Sounds fair to me...if PC is using a razor/blade model (cheap initial equipment sold at cost or at a loss, with profit coming in from consumables) and implemented the necessary IP protections then they have every right to sue MTC.

BizCoCos Posted 16 Feb 2012 , 8:37pm
post #5 of

thanks silly wabbitz, I would love the silhouette but cost is a no go now. In the future i will buy one and hold off on the cheaper cricut.

bonniekaye Posted 16 Feb 2012 , 9:39pm
post #6 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillywabbitz

The companies like Make the Cut that make software to allow you to use any design from your PC with your electric cutter were sued by ProvoCraft because PC wants you to only be able to use their very expensive cartridges.


Sounds fair to me...if PC is using a razor/blade model (cheap initial equipment sold at cost or at a loss, with profit coming in from consumables) and implemented the necessary IP protections then they have every right to sue MTC.




If you go to the Make the Cut discussion forum you will be able to read what is going on. It is a case of a big, but failing company trying to harass a small company that came out with a product far superior to theirs.

Linda McClure invented the technique of using all electronic cutters for cake decorating. They pirated the idea from her, made the cricut cake machine. There really is a lot more to this story, but just another example of their terrible business practices. As consumers we need to know what is going on with the companies we buy things from. That way, we can let them know we are unhappy with their business practices by not buying their products. Money talks! By the way, there is a boycott provo craft page, but I am not sure how to get to it.

jason_kraft Posted 16 Feb 2012 , 9:46pm
post #7 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonniekaye

If you go to the Make the Cut discussion forum you will be able to read what is going on. It is a case of a big, but failing company trying to harass a small company that came out with a product far superior to theirs.



I don't know the full story, but I doubt you will hear an unbiased perspective on a discussion board run and moderated by the defendants.

PC may be able to show prior art indicating they were working on electronic cutters for cake decorating before McClure met with them, if so they will be in a good position to win the lawsuit -- McClure may have come up with the idea independently, but if PC was already working on it then she has no exclusive right to the invention.

BTW if you google "boycott provo craft" the first result is a Facebook page for the boycott, and the second result is a Facebook page urging you not to boycott PC. You are of course free to boycott PC, but if you only intended to buy the loss leader cricut itself and no cartridges then PC would be happy not to have you as a customer.

BizCoCos Posted 16 Feb 2012 , 10:14pm
post #8 of

OMG! I went to the cricut community page, sorry i did, what a headache i have, people sure are vehement about their products. I will buy the silhouette in the near future. A poor man's copywright goeas a long way in settling some of these issues. (you mail ALL relevant info on your invention to yourself and do not open it-you have to use an envelope that will look tampered with as soon as someone tries to open it-) then it is opened in court or in front of both sides with their lawyers. of course applying for a patent goes a long way!

Vista Posted 16 Feb 2012 , 10:18pm
post #9 of

It appears that the lawsuit is an extension of the previous lawsuit. PC is alleging that the owners of MTC have not stopped the use of the software that was sold prior to the first lawsuit. Additionally there are Ebay listings for a plug-in that will make the newest version of MTC work with cricut machines. It is not MTC selling this information, but an individual.

I really think this is ridiculous!! I personally love my expression and cricut cake, but would NOT own or use them without a program like MTC or SCAL. I never would have purchased either of these machines had those programs not been available.

bonniekaye Posted 16 Feb 2012 , 10:20pm

Provo Craft knew nothing of using electronic cutters for cake decorating before Linda McClure presented the idea to them. She is patent pending on the technique. I got my information straight from her. In fact, I got one of the first DVDs she made about the technique, before PC even knew about it. Took her classes and now I use the method daily in my shop.

ChilliPepper Posted 16 Feb 2012 , 10:26pm

Hmmm - my thinking on this is that using a machine to create your icing decorations is not really creating anything! Where's the skill in that????????

sillywabbitz Posted 16 Feb 2012 , 10:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChilliPepper

Hmmm - my thinking on this is that using a machine to create your icing decorations is not really creating anything! Where's the skill in that????????




Yold say the same thing about using cookie cutters tappits. I can't write on a cake to save my life, so lettering, I have to use cutters, if it's electronic or otherwise I don't really care and if saves me time and hassle, I can spend more time on the other design aspects.

This was a debate very early on when electronic cutters came out. To each his own but I am all for anything that helps my lettering.

jason_kraft Posted 16 Feb 2012 , 10:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizCoCos

A poor man's copywright goeas a long way in settling some of these issues. (you mail ALL relevant info on your invention to yourself and do not open it-you have to use an envelope that will look tampered with as soon as someone tries to open it-) then it is opened in court or in front of both sides with their lawyers.



This is an urban legend, a "poor man's copyright" has no legal standing in the US, and in any case it is trivial to alter a postmark date or reseal an envelope.

http://www.snopes.com/legal/postmark.asp

jason_kraft Posted 16 Feb 2012 , 10:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonniekaye

Provo Craft knew nothing of using electronic cutters for cake decorating before Linda McClure presented the idea to them. She is patent pending on the technique. I got my information straight from her.



How does she know that PC knew nothing of the cake decorating application before she met with them? If PC was working on such an application internally they wouldn't share that information with her, and the fact that she has a patent pending doesn't mean anything if PC has prior art.

BizCoCos Posted 16 Feb 2012 , 10:48pm

It still takes talent, many people use flower cutters and their flowers are pretty awful, thus it still takes skill, you can use a fondant cutter like cricut or mtc, silhouette and your buttercream or fondant work underneath may be inferior. I am for neither side since I have none of these cutters but if her work is patent pending then that should be a simple open and shut case.

shanter Posted 16 Feb 2012 , 10:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChilliPepper

Hmmm - my thinking on this is that using a machine to create your icing decorations is not really creating anything! Where's the skill in that????????




Using a machine-cut design allows the caker to spend more time on another, more extensive/complicated design element. Or perhaps the caker has a rush job. And then there's the bride who says "I want this design on my cake and I want it *perfect*! Some of those cuttable designs would be impossible to do "perfectly" by hand.

jason_kraft Posted 16 Feb 2012 , 10:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vista

I personally love my expression and cake, but would NOT own or use them without a program like MTC or SCAL. I never would have purchased either of these machines had those programs not been available.



This statement is exactly why PC filed the lawsuit. If their business model involves selling the cutter at a discount and making up the profit on the cartridges, PC would have been better off if you had never bought a cricut in the first place since you will never buy the cartridges.

Vista Posted 16 Feb 2012 , 11:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vista

I personally love my expression and cake, but would NOT own or use them without a program like MTC or SCAL. I never would have purchased either of these machines had those programs not been available.


This statement is exactly why PC filed the lawsuit. If their business model involves selling the cutter at a discount and making up the profit on the cartridges, PC would have been better off if you had never bought a in the first place since you will never buy the cartridges.




Perhaps, however I would have been willing to pay more for the machine, if it had more functionality. I would also still be willing to purchase some of their images if they weren't so ridiculously over priced (carts are $60-$80). Most of the time I would only use 1 or 2 images on the carts, and only a hand full of times, I am not willing to spend $80 for 10 cuts. I love the idea of being able to purchase individual images and think that PC would sell way more if they offered the option. People don't blink over spending $5, but $80 is something most of us have to budget for. They are MORE than making up the difference in price with cartridge purchases, to the point of ripping people off!

I will admit, I did not do my research before purchasing my Cricut. Had I known that PC didn't support 3rd party applications, or offer a similar software product, I would have spent more on a product that did not limit my creativity to the images they produced.

BizCoCos Posted 16 Feb 2012 , 11:17pm

why is silhouette not being sued , if their machine is similar?

IvyCakes Posted 16 Feb 2012 , 11:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vista

It appears that the lawsuit is an extension of the previous lawsuit. PC is alleging that the owners of MTC have not stopped the use of the software that was sold prior to the first lawsuit. Additionally there are Ebay listings for a plug-in that will make the newest version of MTC work with machines. It is not MTC selling this information, but an individual.

I really think this is ridiculous!! I personally love my expression and cake, but would NOT own or use them without a program like MTC or SCAL. I never would have purchased either of these machines had those programs not been available.




I never felt comfortable mentioning this before in Cricut threads, but back in November when they were on sale and I researched them, it was very easy to see how to mod MTC to work with the cricut again. They left all the information available in public forums. They only removed one .dll to make it non compatible and simply Googling the .dll name lets you find a link to download it. I always wondered why people were saying MTC no longer worked over the months when it was so easy to find out it could with a search... icon_confused.gif

On that note, it is so wrong people are learning about the .dll and finding a way to profit from it on Ebay! Money money money.... people find so many methods to grab it where they can. icon_sad.gif I want some money too! icon_sad.gif

Debslynn Posted 17 Feb 2012 , 12:16am

I recently got the Silhouette Cameo for my birthday from hubby (before I started in on the whole cake decorating obsession). Love the Cameo but does anyone know if I can use it to cut fondant?
Thanks! Wow, it seems like I am always asking questions...
Debslynn

DeniseNH Posted 17 Feb 2012 , 12:32am

If you have ever tried to get up and running with a Silhouette you would never say that it takes no skills. There's a steep learning curve to these types of machines and you seriously can't be afraid of computers to accomplish it. I'm sure that florists were appalled when sugar flowers became popular - is creating flowers out of sugar "cheating". No, it's just another vehicle to get you from point A to point B, and so isn't the Silhouette.

bonniekaye Posted 17 Feb 2012 , 3:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Debslynn

I recently got the Silhouette Cameo for my birthday from hubby (before I started in on the whole cake decorating obsession). Love the Cameo but does anyone know if I can use it to cut fondant?
Thanks! Wow, it seems like I am always asking questions...
Debslynn



If you order the cake accessory package from Linda McClure you will receive what you need to use the Cameo for cake decorating.

sweetcakes Posted 17 Feb 2012 , 3:58am

i wonder why PC doesn;t sue the sellers of the cartridges on ebay. Theres no need to spend $60-$80 for a cartridgea that you can get on ebay for $20 or so. I do find it strange that all these sellers are actually from Utah though, where PC is based.

jason_kraft Posted 17 Feb 2012 , 4:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcakes

i wonder why PC doesn;t sue the sellers of the cartridges on ebay. Theres no need to spend $60-$80 for a cartridgea that you can get on ebay for $20 or so. I do find it strange that all these sellers are actually from Utah though, where PC is based.



It is perfectly legal to resell a legitimate cartridge, any legit cartridges on eBay selling for $20 are probably manufacturer's overstock or returns from retailers. If they are counterfeit, chances are the seller will be hard to pin down to serve the lawsuit (and judgment-proof if they do get caught), and eBay already has a process in place for taking down counterfeit sales.

sweetcakes Posted 17 Feb 2012 , 4:24am

I see, thanks for clearing that up for me Jason.


It is perfectly legal to resell a legitimate cartridge, any legit cartridges on eBay selling for $20 are probably manufacturer's overstock or returns from retailers. If they are counterfeit, chances are the seller will be hard to pin down to serve the lawsuit (and judgment-proof if they do get caught), and eBay already has a process in place for taking down counterfeit sales.[/quote]

Debslynn Posted 17 Feb 2012 , 2:51pm

Sorry about the little hijack. Wow - thanks sweetcakes for the suggestion re: the silhouette cameo. I will be ordering her blade and dvd. Totally agree with posters that cutting out shapes and letters with the silhouette is no differet than using cookie cutters. Still takes talent to place them in a visually attractive way on the cake! Not that I am an expert in caking! But I do have lots of scrapbooking experience and it seems like a similar idea...

pveloz Posted 9 Mar 2012 , 6:18pm

Ok so i'm not sure if this has been answered before or if the answer is obvious but if i purchase the silhouette from linda with the package she has..i will be able to cut out any shape or FONT i would like?

Thanks!
icon_smile.gif

QTCakes1 Posted 9 Mar 2012 , 7:39pm

Just to answer Jason's question, Linda was invited by PC to show them how to use it for cakes. They also then had her demo it, then bumped her out. This is all all very old CC news from way back. She also posted it on her blog. It was a whole lot of hoopla behind it.

jason_kraft Posted 9 Mar 2012 , 8:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by QTCakes1

Just to answer Jason's question, Linda was invited by PC to show them how to use it for cakes. They also then had her demo it, then bumped her out.



That may be true, but it doesn't speak to whether or not PC had already started developing cake-related applications at the time of the meeting. No one outside of PC knows that, but based on the recent lawsuit they filed they seem to be confident in their ability to prove that the cake application was already under development (unless it is a giant bluff).

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