They lied?

Business By kmstreepey Updated 6 Feb 2012 , 3:35am by giraffe11

jason_kraft Posted 28 Jan 2012 , 6:15pm
post #121 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by QTCakes1

But like I said before, asking if you bake from scratch or a mix is NOT the same thing as asking for your recipe.



Correct, it is a question about your baking process instead of your recipe, but that doesn't change the fact that you do not have to disclose that information and that you should answer honestly if asked, since that's in the best interest of customer service.

Quote:
Quote:

But really at this point, I think you are just saying whatever to keep things going, cause as you mentioned on other threads, you are here for the entertainment aspect.



Not sure what you're talking about here about the "entertainment aspect", but I am attempting to clarify my position on this issue. If you don't want to keep this thread going you don't have to, but if people post points that I think deserve rebuttals/clarifications/comments I will continue posting replies.

If I wanted to just keep the thread going without adding anything useful to the discussion I would be posting random pictures from the internet.

kelleym Posted 28 Jan 2012 , 9:07pm
post #122 of 145

OH, SNAP! I am shamed! Sorry for trying to head off a meltdown that I've seen approximately 1,000 times over the past 7 years, and lighten the mood a little.

At least I don't have to have the last word in every. single. thread. I participate in. I have, on occasion, been known to just let it go.

Now, back to frying my bigger fish.
LL

QTCakes1 Posted 28 Jan 2012 , 9:24pm
post #123 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelleym

OH, SNAP! I am shamed! Sorry for trying to head off a meltdown that I've seen approximately 1,000 times over the past 7 years, and lighten the mood a little.

At least I don't have to have the last word in every. single. thread. I participate in. I have, on occasion, been known to just let it go.

Now, back to frying my bigger fish.




AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! That is by far the best picture I have EVER seen on here! thumbs_up.gif

mcaulir Posted 28 Jan 2012 , 10:07pm
post #124 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by QTCakes1

But like I said before, asking if you bake from scratch or a mix is NOT the same thing as asking for your recipe.


Correct, it is a question about your baking process instead of your recipe, but that doesn't change the fact that you do not have to disclose that information and that you should answer honestly if asked, since that's in the best interest of customer service.

Quote:
Quote:

But really at this point, I think you are just saying whatever to keep things going, cause as you mentioned on other threads, you are here for the entertainment aspect.


Not sure what you're talking about here about the "entertainment aspect", but I am attempting to clarify my position on this issue. If you don't want to keep this thread going you don't have to, but if people post points that I think deserve rebuttals/clarifications/comments I will continue posting replies.

If I wanted to just keep the thread going without adding anything useful to the discussion I would be posting random pictures from the internet.




I believe she's referring to this quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by MimiFix

Jason, I'm happy to hear about your new path. But does this mean you won't be joining us anymore?


I'll still be around. Just like everyone else here I'm addicted to this site, and I'm constantly learning something new (not to mention the entertainment value of some threads).




From this thread:

http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopic-738193-0.html

cakestyles Posted 28 Jan 2012 , 10:28pm
post #125 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by robin5568

This topic has come up so many times and everytime it becomes a battle of who gets to call themselves a "scratch" baker versus a mix baker. It still always comes down to, why did you even ask if they made their cakes from scratch or not. The implication is that a scratch baker is somehow superior to a non-scratch baker. Wrong!!!!!! If the cake taste great isn't that what you are really paying for? Asking if it is made from scratch really makes no sense. I've had box mixes that tasted wonderful and scratch recipes that I fed to my dog. Who cares whether scratch or box, make and sell me a wonderful tasting cake.




Sorry I STRONGLY disagree with you and I know that my scratch baker friends here will to. Obviously a scratch baker is superior to a mix baker and the reason that's true is because EVERYONE can bake a mix cake and have it turn out successful, BUT NOT everyone can bake from scratch successfully....which is why so many feel the need to stretch the truth or blatantly lie about their method of choice.

You said it yourself you've had some "scratch recipes that you fed to your dog"...that scratch cake was baked by someone who obviously didn't have the skill and knowledge to bake a perfect scratch cake.

QTCakes1 Posted 29 Jan 2012 , 12:47am
post #126 of 145

That's exactly the thread I was talking about Mcaulir. It's not the first time JK has said something inm a thread and doubled back.

SweetSuzieQ Posted 29 Jan 2012 , 3:02am
post #127 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakestyles

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin5568

This topic has come up so many times and everytime it becomes a battle of who gets to call themselves a "scratch" baker versus a mix baker. It still always comes down to, why did you even ask if they made their cakes from scratch or not. The implication is that a scratch baker is somehow superior to a non-scratch baker. Wrong!!!!!! If the cake taste great isn't that what you are really paying for? Asking if it is made from scratch really makes no sense. I've had box mixes that tasted wonderful and scratch recipes that I fed to my dog. Who cares whether scratch or box, make and sell me a wonderful tasting cake.



Sorry I STRONGLY disagree with you and I know that my scratch baker friends here will to. Obviously a scratch baker is superior to a mix baker and the reason that's true is because EVERYONE can bake a mix cake and have it turn out successful, BUT NOT everyone can bake from scratch successfully....which is why so many feel the need to stretch the truth or blatantly lie about their method of choice.

You said it yourself you've had some "scratch recipes that you fed to your dog"...that scratch cake was baked by someone who obviously didn't have the skill and knowledge to bake a perfect scratch cake.




+1

Not usually one to get into the debate but cakestyles said it so well I had to add a ditto! icon_biggrin.gif

My kids (4 yo and 7 yo) made a birthday cake for me yesterday with my husband in the kitchen only to put the cake into and take it out of the oven. They used a box mix and a tub of frosting and, it turned out great.

jason_kraft Posted 29 Jan 2012 , 3:26am
post #128 of 145

@QT:

You said: "But really at this point, I think you are just saying whatever to keep things going, cause as you mentioned on other threads, you are here for the entertainment aspect."

I said (in another thread): "I'm addicted to this site, and I'm constantly learning something new (not to mention the entertainment value of some threads)."

I'm flattered that you follow my posts so closely, but now that you see what I actually said I hope you understand why the premise of your point is incorrect, and I do not
"say whatever to keep things going". My post history speaks for itself in this regard. I am not "doubling back" either, I stand by my original statement that I like this site because it is both educational and entertaining.

Unfortunately personal attacks are neither educational nor entertaining, so please try to avoid them in the future and stick to the topic at hand. Normally I wouldn't even respond to something like this, but your public attack on my integrity was so ill-conceived I felt it was necessary to set the record straight. If you want to discuss this topic further please send me a PM instead of further cluttering up this thread, this will be my last post in this thread regarding your attack.

scp1127 Posted 29 Jan 2012 , 10:22am
post #129 of 145

Anyone can make a box mix the first time out. No skill whatsoever is needed. They even have pictures so you don't even have to know how to read. You can even estimate the ingredients with no measuring cups and you still get a cake. Your oven can be 100 degrees off and you still get cake. You can add fake pudding that always thickens no matter what mistake and, wow, you still get a moist fake cake with fake pudding. Add Crisco buttercream with no butter and you have something you can keep on the counter for a year, eat it, and not only will you not get sick, it will probably taste the same. Give me a break.

Great post cakestyles.

scp1127 Posted 29 Jan 2012 , 10:27am
post #130 of 145

Yo can get mad at my previous post, but we are all thinking it.

There is nothing wrong with baking from a box and many people love box cakes, but don't come on here and state that the box is equal to good scratch cakes without expecting a rebuttal.

Everything I stated was fact. Google box mixes (production) and you will see that I got my information straight from the box manufacturers themselves.

QTCakes1 Posted 29 Jan 2012 , 4:00pm
post #131 of 145

Oh please Jason, we all read all the threads on here, even though we don't always feel the need to say something on them. Your attempts at being cute is just so silly & ridiculous. I would like to think no one follows anyone on here, unless your saying that is something that you do.

SweetSuzieQ Posted 29 Jan 2012 , 5:34pm
post #132 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by scp1127

Yo can get mad at my previous post, but we are all thinking it.

There is nothing wrong with baking from a box and many people love box cakes, but don't come on here and state that the box is equal to good scratch cakes without expecting a rebuttal.

Everything I stated was fact. Google box mixes (production) and you will see that I got my information straight from the box manufacturers themselves.




+1

An amazing chef could probably make use a can of sardines and mayo and turn it into the best damn sardines you have ever tasted but, I doubt they would serve it in their restaurant. I just don't get why the argument is always the same. Scratch baking takes more skill that box doctoring. That is a fact. If you choose to bake from a box then own it.

Rachel Ray has made a small fortune, probably more than a group of the top chefs in the world combined and, she has done it while OWNING what she is. A "cook" (she has said it herself many times..she is NOT a chef) who makes easy food that everybody can make at home and quickly. She doesn't trump her self up or compare herself to those highly skilled chefs and doesn't compare her food to being equal to or better than fine dining. She owns who and what she is and, is proud of it and takes that pride to the bank every day while the millions keep rolling in. Kudos to her. thumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gif

cathyscakes Posted 29 Jan 2012 , 6:46pm
post #133 of 145

I bake mostly from scratch, but for a white cake, I use a doctored mix. I just can not find a white cake I like. I have been baking for 30 years and haven't found it. I don't know if its my tastes, or my baking skills,( which I feel are really good.) But I haven't found it with other bakers either. I attended a wedding, and actualy threw the piece of white buttermilk cake away, I thought it tasted so flat, and she is a famous scratch baker from our area. Scratch doesn't automatically make it superior,like others have said, there are good and bad, in all forms of baking. I take pride in my baking, and it really bugs me that I can't make an awesome white cake. I'm on a quest to find it, just haven't yet. The doctored cake I make tastes better to me.When you pair it with a fresh filling, it tastes wonderful. I also buy comercially made fondant, I use to make it too, but found the premade fondant more consistant. I have never been asked if I bake from scratch, but would definitely tell the truth if asked.

LoveMeSomeCake615 Posted 29 Jan 2012 , 8:50pm
post #134 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by cathyscakes

I bake mostly from scratch, but for a white cake, I use a doctored mix. I just can not find a white cake I like. I have been baking for 30 years and haven't found it. I don't know if its my tastes, or my baking skills,( which I feel are really good.) But I haven't found it with other bakers either. I attended a wedding, and actualy threw the piece of white buttermilk cake away, I thought it tasted so flat, and she is a famous scratch baker from our area.




This brings up a good point. For those of us who do both, depending on the flavor of cake, what are we considered? Just ok scratch bakers? Pretty good, but not as amazing as someone who bakes everything from scratch?

Obviously we have some scratch baking ability if we do some recipes from scratch. What does that make us? Not trying to be sarcastic or anything here, I'm genuinely curious.

jason_kraft Posted 29 Jan 2012 , 9:17pm
post #135 of 145

If you make some recipes from scratch and some from a mix then IMO you can call yourself a scratch baker who has some mix-based products. But your opinion is the only one that matters, since you have to be comfortable with how you are describing your business.

If a customer asked such a baker if they baked from scratch in general I don't see a problem answering "yes", although if they were inquiring about one of the specific products that was mix-based then the right thing to do would be to say that the product in question was baked from a mix.

The skill of a scratch baker has nothing to do with whether or not they use mixes in some of their products. Developing scratch recipes takes a lot of time and effort, and some bakers prefer to invest in other areas. A general rule of thumb is that 20% of your products will satisfy 80% of your customers, so it may not make business sense to put the time into baking R&D for low-demand products on the long tail (unless exclusive scratch baking is one of your competitive advantages).

LoveMeSomeCake615 Posted 29 Jan 2012 , 9:52pm
post #136 of 145

Thanks Jason. Yes, I already intend to tell the truth, whether the particular cake they are trying is mix based or scratch. Our standard answer if someone asks in general if we bake from scratch is to say "Some of our recipes are from scratch and some are mix-based." I have no problem telling people that.

I guess I am more wondering what those who bake exclusively from scratch and say that if you bake from a mix you have no baking skill would classify us as. Sorry, hope that made sense!

LoveMeSomeCake615 Posted 29 Jan 2012 , 9:55pm
post #137 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft


The skill of a scratch baker has nothing to do with whether or not they use mixes in some of their products. Developing scratch recipes takes a lot of time and effort, and some bakers prefer to invest in other areas. A general rule of thumb is that 20% of your products will satisfy 80% of your customers, so it may not make business sense to put the time into baking R&D for low-demand products on the long tail (unless exclusive scratch baking is one of your competitive advantages).




Right, that's kind of how I feel about it. There may come a time when I have more time and resources to develop an exclusively scratch menu, but right now we are about two weeks from opening a storefront, so all of my effort and money is going towards that and towards tweaking and shoring up the recipes we already have and have had success with.

cakestyles Posted 29 Jan 2012 , 10:04pm
post #138 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetSuzieQ


My kids (4 yo and 7 yo) made a birthday cake for me yesterday with my husband in the kitchen only to put the cake into and take it out of the oven. They used a box mix and a tub of frosting and, it turned out great.





That is so sweet and something that you and them will never forget! Happy birthday!


@lovemesomecake....what exactly didn't you like about the white cake recipes that you've used? Was it just the flavor or was it the texture too?

Some other time, if you'd like...start a new thread and we can troubleshoot through some of the recipes you've tried. White cakes are tempremental...especially if you are using recipes where the whites need to be whipped separately and folded in.

I don't want to get too far off course here but I love picking apart recipes and I know a few others here on this thread do as well so it would be fun to help you find the perfect recipe.

Good luck with your new storefront and I wish you much success.

LoveMeSomeCake615 Posted 30 Jan 2012 , 4:11am
post #139 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakestyles


@lovemesomecake....what exactly didn't you like about the white cake recipes that you've used? Was it just the flavor or was it the texture too?

Some other time, if you'd like...start a new thread and we can troubleshoot through some of the recipes you've tried. White cakes are tempremental...especially if you are using recipes where the whites need to be whipped separately and folded in.

I don't want to get too far off course here but I love picking apart recipes and I know a few others here on this thread do as well so it would be fun to help you find the perfect recipe.

Good luck with your new storefront and I wish you much success.




Thanks! I might do that sometime.

As far as what I haven't liked about the recipes that I have tried, it's definitely been mostly the texture and moisture content.

scp1127 Posted 30 Jan 2012 , 6:23am
post #140 of 145

cathyscakes, you may just not like white cake. I don't like chocolate. But with white cakes, they don't carry as much full flavor because they are missing the yolks. I have several scratch white cakes and they are excellent... each specifically paired with a particular filling and frosting. I wouldn't say that it is the one I want to eat plain. In white, I look for a cake that will compliment the flavors around it because of all of the cake flavors, it packs the least punch by itself. But on the other hand, angel food cake can carry a ton of flavor. That distinct flavor is one of my favorite.

My suggestion for white cake is to have a great vanilla to enhance the flavor. NM vanilla bean paste and homemade good vanilla extract will pop the flavor in a white cake. Don't rely on McCormick's alone to supply the flavor. I use a combination of vbp and a highly concentrated homemade vanilla extract made with Grey Goose vodka. The cost is just slightly higher as buying vbp in bulk and the same as vbp in the small bottles.

LindaF144a Posted 5 Feb 2012 , 5:00pm
post #141 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

I call BS on the "I don't know what scratch means" red herring argument. Everyone knows that baking from scratch is using flour, sugar, eggs, butter and BAKING, not using a mix and adding stuff to it. If you tell yourself that's baking from scratch you know you're full of it even if you won't admit it.

Using a doctored mix is no more baking from scratch than heating a Stouffer's lasagna and adding extra cheese to it is cooking from scratch.




Some day they are going to put a like button on here, cause I loooove this answer.

I have not read the whole 10 pages. I stopped at this one. It was said so well ther is no need to contribute to what I am sure is a debate on baking for scratch vs. mix thing again.

But bottom line is yes, they lied. We get that all the time. The name of my shop is From Scratch and all my competitors have gone to great lengths to include those two words in the description of their products. But one taste and you can tell they are stretching the truth, probably the way everybody here is justifying it also.

I get customers all the time who ask "so you don't use a mix, right?", even though the words From Scratch are in the name. And it is probably because they have had the same experience you had. So we continue to educate our customers on our philosophy for our store.

And I strongly disagree with the statement that scratch baking is not a good business model. But I am not getting into that debate here. I'll save it for the book formulating in my head.

jason_kraft Posted 5 Feb 2012 , 5:07pm
post #142 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindaF144a

And I strongly disagree with the statement that scratch baking is not a good business model.



Where did you find that statement?

mombabytiger Posted 5 Feb 2012 , 10:28pm
post #143 of 145

Bakeries use base mixes for consistency and speed. There are some really good mixes and some really terrible ones. As long as you stick with the good ones, I don't see the problem. The proof is in the eating, not how impressive it is that you are trying to bake hundreds of cakes from scratch. The home baker has a lot more leeway with scratch baking and those cakes are indeed usually fabulous. But the sad fact is, if you did a taste test with the average consumer, they will prefer the mix nine times out of ten. I use a base mix at my bakery and get raves so I see no need to bake "from scratch" just to prove that I can.

howsweet Posted 6 Feb 2012 , 2:56am
post #144 of 145

While I don't think that a bakery lying is a great idea, I can sure appreciate why they would. Many customers are used to cakes from a mix but have no idea that this is the case. That leaves the bakery in a tough spot. Do they say, yes, we use a mix and then explain to a disbelieving and insulted customer that they possibly have never bought a scratch cake?

There are plenty of people who still think cakes are baked in grocery stores. And I bet a few even on this board don't know that all the breads and cookies come in frozen.

I apologize -- I only read the first 2 pages of the thread.

giraffe11 Posted 6 Feb 2012 , 3:35am
post #145 of 145

Wow. I can't believe this thread is still going............ I don't think the point was originally about whether scratch or box is better. The point was whether it was acceptable to lie. I still say I expect ANY person I am doing business with to answer direct questions with the truth, whether they are a baker, a plumber, or a driveway paver. If not, I will respond appropriately. I agree that many people prefer boxed cakes. And I also can tell you that many people prefer scratch cakes. There is probably a third group that can't tell the difference and couldn't care less, as long as it tastes good. I can tell the difference and I do prefer scratch. Often, I probably wouldn't bother to ask......depends on the circumstance and the occasion. But if I did ask, I expect to hear the truth. Like I said many pages ago......if you are proud of your product, there is no need to lie. If you are not proud of your product, get a new product.

Quote by @%username% on %date%

%body%