They Lied?

Business By kmstreepey Updated 6 Feb 2012 , 3:35am by giraffe11

scp1127 Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 5:25am
post #61 of 145

This is not about which is better, but to ignore the hierarchy is only fooling yourself as in costumeczar's analogy.

This thread is about truth in disclosing ingredients. I'm sure the OP knew the answer before she asked. It is never an assumption. The evidence is as plain as day to some.

For others without such a discerning palate, they still deserve to be told the truth. Many people choose not to consume artificial food and the related chemicals. The fact that they may not be able to tell the difference does not give the baker the right to lie.

Other people may want to purchase a scratch cake because the premium price warrants a premium cake, not one that anyone can bake. The reason the baker lies in the first place is because she wants to extract more money from the consumer than even she feels her product is worth. Too many bakers get their price AND tell the truth.

And before a war is started, I taught my babies, at about 4 years old, how to make box cakes instead of using Easy Bake products. I bought little pans and little spoons and they made perfect cakes and cupcakes every time in the "big oven". It was a rite of passage for my girls in their culinary lessons from me. The chemicals insure a cake will appear regardless of a multitude of mistakes. So sorry, the hierarchy does exist and the world knows it, only a few bakers ever debate the issue.

AnnieCahill Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 11:18am
post #62 of 145

Homemade blue cheese is awesome.

Now back to your regularly scheduled horse beating.

costumeczar Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 11:33am
post #63 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

Hahaha! You think this is a joke, but there's a food service company around here that advertises "house brand" dressings and condiments on the side of their trucks. So if you go to a restaurant that uses them and ask for the house dressing, they can give that to you and you'll think that you're getting the chef's special recipe when you're really getting something from a gallon jug.


I thought house dressing was basically oil, vinegar, and salt...unless you think the restaurant is pressing their own oil and distilling their own vinegar, of course the dressing will come in gallon jugs. I certainly don't expect anything special or unique when I order house dressing unless the restaurant specifically calls it out as such.




It's my understanding that if you order the "house" anything it's that particular restaurant's special formula for that item, which would also imply that there's a recipe attached to it, not unscrewing a gallon jug.

HeidiL Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 2:21pm
post #64 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by FromScratchSF

SO I was at Sprinkles a while back, my 1st and last time there. I ask the counter girl, "Do you make all this from scratch?"

And she says....

Wait for it....

"Well, there's, like, totally a big mixer in the back!" O8

Sigh.





I love it! Thanks! icon_biggrin.gif

tazmycat Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 2:59pm
post #65 of 145

WHO CARES!!!

FromScratchSF Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 3:36pm
post #66 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by tazmycat

WHO CARES!!!



The pathetic thing is that there are actually people that "DON'T CARE!!!!!!" that business lie to them in order to turn a profit.

Good thing there are lots of us that DO care.

You're welcome. Image

olleharr Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 3:41pm
post #67 of 145

I've never met a box mix I didn't like. Scratch on the other hand has been lots of trial and a whole lot of error. Hate to say it on here with all you awesome bakers but I prefer a nicely doctored foolproof mix (me being the fool of course) ;^)

LNW Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 3:53pm
post #68 of 145

For those of you who have bakeries that claim they bake from scratch but use a mix, do they charge a higher price for their scratch cakes? Id be furious to spend the extra $$$ to buy what I assume is a scratch cake and get a mix. Not to knock mixes, almost all my cakes start from a mix (all but my vegan cakes for obvious reasons).

When I was a teen I worked at Fazolis. Their advertising slogan at the time was REAL Italian REAL fast. All the sauces came from big bags or cans that we dumped into giant warming kettles in the back. Our homemade pizza started with a frozen pizza crust that we put onto pizza pans and once thawed they puffed up like normal pizza dough, and then wed pile on toppings, bake and serve. I was asked lots of times if our sauce was made from scratch. If I was really busy and not in the mood for a long drawn out conversation about it Id tell them yes, ask if they wanted more breadsticks and move on. If I was bored and had the time to chat Id tell them the truth and then watch as they looked at their plates in disgust. There was nothing "real Italian" about Fazoli's but some people fell for that line of bs icon_rolleyes.gif

My best friend worked at Burger King at the same time. Oh the horrors of fast food.

costumeczar Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 4:36pm
post #69 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by LNW

Our homemade pizza started with a frozen pizza crust that we put onto pizza pans and once thawed they puffed up like normal pizza dough, and then wed pile on toppings, bake and serve. .




You just reminded me that I need to go start the pizza dough for tonight's dinner! thumbs_up.gif

LNW Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 8:44pm
post #70 of 145

That is a weekly dinner in my home, homemade pizza. Well the bread machine does most of the work for me icon_wink.gif

cakelady2266 Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 9:08pm
post #71 of 145

I've seen this debate before, but here is something to ponder. Since I do both mixes and scratch baking, what do I need to be telling my customers? Do I say something like "well this this and this cake is a mix, and that that and that cake is scratch"

When it is all mixes or all scratch baking I see the answer is simple. I'm not representing mixes as scratch products or inferior to scratch products to a customer. Nor am I representing scratch as superior. I offer both as a matter of taste preference and budget.

QTCakes1 Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 9:13pm
post #72 of 145

If I ask you and you do both, then tell me both. Why is that so hard?

4realLaLa Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 9:15pm
post #73 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellertur

Jeepers freaking creepers! Mill our own flour to call it scratch? That is ridiculous...and yes, I bake from scratch no mix involved. I don't however use flourescent yellow sleeve fillings and call them "homemade lemon curd" like my competition does. There is a huge difference between opening a box of mix and cracking a few eggs and tossing in this and that, then there is figuring out the exact chemistry of a scratch cake. LOTS of people chronically complain on here about "bad recipes" just because they can't figure out how to bake from scratch. It's technique.

"A bad craftsman blames his tools (or recipes)"




well said.

4realLaLa Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 9:16pm
post #74 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellertur

Jeepers freaking creepers! Mill our own flour to call it scratch? That is ridiculous...and yes, I bake from scratch no mix involved. I don't however use flourescent yellow sleeve fillings and call them "homemade lemon curd" like my competition does. There is a huge difference between opening a box of mix and cracking a few eggs and tossing in this and that, then there is figuring out the exact chemistry of a scratch cake. LOTS of people chronically complain on here about "bad recipes" just because they can't figure out how to bake from scratch. It's technique.

"A bad craftsman blames his tools (or recipes)"




WELL SAID.

Baker_Rose Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 9:16pm
post #75 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by scp1127

And before a war is started, I taught my babies, at about 4 years old, how to make box cakes instead of using Easy Bake products. I bought little pans and little spoons and they made perfect cakes and cupcakes every time in the "big oven". It was a rite of passage for my girls in their culinary lessons from me. The chemicals insure a cake will appear regardless of a multitude of mistakes.




Oh My Gosh!! Back when my baby WAS a baby I purchased my first home scale and went NUTS and redid all my recipes into grams. THEN, when she was at the Easy Bake stage, I took all my cake, cookie and brownie recipes and sized them for the Easy Bake so she could bake scratch cake recipes. I was very anti-cake mix back then (I did get over myself) and she had her little toy mixer and her own set of measuring cups and spoons and she learned gram weights and scratch baking from age 4.

......my baby isn't a baby anymore, but boy could she make some CUTE things in that Easy Bake Oven.

Tami detective.gif

4realLaLa Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 9:17pm
post #76 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellertur

Jeepers freaking creepers! Mill our own flour to call it scratch? That is ridiculous...and yes, I bake from scratch no mix involved. I don't however use flourescent yellow sleeve fillings and call them "homemade lemon curd" like my competition does. There is a huge difference between opening a box of mix and cracking a few eggs and tossing in this and that, then there is figuring out the exact chemistry of a scratch cake. LOTS of people chronically complain on here about "bad recipes" just because they can't figure out how to bake from scratch. It's technique.

"A bad craftsman blames his tools (or recipes)"




WELL SAID.

4realLaLa Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 9:18pm
post #77 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellertur

Jeepers freaking creepers! Mill our own flour to call it scratch? That is ridiculous...and yes, I bake from scratch no mix involved. I don't however use flourescent yellow sleeve fillings and call them "homemade lemon curd" like my competition does. There is a huge difference between opening a box of mix and cracking a few eggs and tossing in this and that, then there is figuring out the exact chemistry of a scratch cake. LOTS of people chronically complain on here about "bad recipes" just because they can't figure out how to bake from scratch. It's technique.

"A bad craftsman blames his tools (or recipes)"




WELL SAID.

giraffe11 Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 10:13pm
post #78 of 145

Yes, bakeries will flat out lie about this issue. I remember being amazed, the first time I saw a similar post, at how many CC'ers said they would flat out lie and basically told posters who suggested honesty was a better policy that they were busybodies and had no right to be the "moral police". To me, it has nothing to do with scratch vs mix vs doctored and everything to do with honesty in business. If I hired a roofer and he told me he would haul away the old roof instead of just covering over it with the new one, and I later discovered that the old roof was still there, underneath the new roof, you can bet this would be an issue. I don't care if your business is roofing, or baking cakes, or teaching ballet. If I ask a specific question and you flat out lie to me, I have a problem with that. It's not about being any kind of "moral police". It is about deciding who gets my business. If you lie and I have no tangible proof, I will spread the word to everyone I know. If you lie, and I have proof, I will be expecting my money back and I will be reporting you to the better business bureau, in addition to telling everyone I know. I just don't tolerate it. If you have a business you should be proud of your product or service. If you have a business that uses box mixes, for whatever reason, then be proud of your product!!!!! If you're not proud, change your business. Don't lie about it.
OK. Getting off the soapbox now. Proceed with your regularly-scheduled discussion.

jason_kraft Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 10:21pm
post #79 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by giraffe11

I remember being amazed, the first time I saw a similar post, at how many CC'ers said they would flat out lie and basically told posters who suggested honesty was a better policy that they were busybodies and had no right to be the "moral police".



That's odd...all those posters must have left CC since then, as no one has defended flat out lying in this thread.

QTCakes1 Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 10:50pm
post #80 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by giraffe11

I remember being amazed, the first time I saw a similar post, at how many CC'ers said they would flat out lie and basically told posters who suggested honesty was a better policy that they were busybodies and had no right to be the "moral police".


That's odd...all those posters must have left CC since then, as no one has defended flat out lying in this thread.




Not sure if they are gone or just inactive, but being told to lie about baking from a mix was quite common a few years ago.

Adevag Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 11:09pm
post #81 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakelady2266

I've seen this debate before, but here is something to ponder. Since I do both mixes and scratch baking, what do I need to be telling my customers? Do I say something like "well this this and this cake is a mix, and that that and that cake is scratch"

When it is all mixes or all scratch baking I see the answer is simple. I'm not representing mixes as scratch products or inferior to scratch products to a customer. Nor am I representing scratch as superior. I offer both as a matter of taste preference and budget.




I think the best answer would be to just say you do both. Customers will ask for different reasons and if the reason is that they want to avoid certain ingredients found in mixes you could easily help by informing which cakes are all scratch.

indydebi Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 11:11pm
post #82 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

Hahaha! You think this is a joke, but there's a food service company around here that advertises "house brand" dressings and condiments on the side of their trucks. So if you go to a restaurant that uses them and ask for the house dressing, they can give that to you and you'll think that you're getting the chef's special recipe when you're really getting something from a gallon jug.


I thought house dressing was basically oil, vinegar, and salt...unless you think the restaurant is pressing their own oil and distilling their own vinegar, of course the dressing will come in gallon jugs. I certainly don't expect anything special or unique when I order house dressing unless the restaurant specifically calls it out as such.



It's my understanding that if you order the "house" anything it's that particular restaurant's special formula for that item, which would also imply that there's a recipe attached to it, not unscrewing a gallon jug.


Where I grew up "house" anything meant "whatever you've got on hand" or whatever they bought in bulk. It NEVER meant special or gourmet or made from scratch in any way. You could get "house" or you could get "the name-brand-slash-good-stuff". House-Ranch; House-whiskey; etal.

QTCakes1 Posted 27 Jan 2012 , 12:48am
post #83 of 145

I have a friend who is a head chef of a very nice place and house meand made in house with their exclusive recipe. But if I was talking about TGIF's or Redlobster, then you would be right. In fact, I know a few people in the food industry and this how they would also describe it.

kelleym Posted 27 Jan 2012 , 1:49am
post #84 of 145

I feel sorry for anybody who goes to TGIFriday's or Red Lobster and expects fresh homemade dressing.

FromScratchSF Posted 27 Jan 2012 , 2:44am
post #85 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelleym

I feel sorry for anybody who goes to TGIFriday's or Red Lobster and expects fresh homemade XXXXXXXX anything.




Fixed it for 'ya icon_biggrin.gif

all4cake Posted 27 Jan 2012 , 3:19am
post #86 of 145

Your question was, specifically, "Do ya'll bake from scratch?" and the reply was, "yes.".

Even if your cake was from a box, it's still possible you were not lied to since the question you specifically asked really wasn't that specific if the bakery offers things other than the cake you ordered. "Will the cake I ordered be made from scratch or from a mix or mix base?"

ChristineCMC Posted 27 Jan 2012 , 3:47am
post #87 of 145

I think the bottom line...... If someone asks if you bake from scratch or use a box mix, you tell them the truth. Period.

I agree that as a paying customer if I ask a direct question regarding services that will be provided to me, I want a direct answer.

PS - I am a from scratch baker and to me that means I buy flour, eggs, sugar, ect and mix that together. I think that qualifies me to say that I bake from scratchicon_smile.gif

robin5568 Posted 27 Jan 2012 , 4:10am
post #88 of 145

This topic has come up so many times and everytime it becomes a battle of who gets to call themselves a "scratch" baker versus a mix baker. It still always comes down to, why did you even ask if they made their cakes from scratch or not. The implication is that a scratch baker is somehow superior to a non-scratch baker. Wrong!!!!!! If the cake taste great isn't that what you are really paying for? Asking if it is made from scratch really makes no sense. I've had box mixes that tasted wonderful and scratch recipes that I fed to my dog. Who cares whether scratch or box, make and sell me a wonderful tasting cake.

kmstreepey Posted 27 Jan 2012 , 4:31am
post #89 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by all4cake

Your question was, specifically, "Do ya'll bake from scratch?" and the reply was, "yes.".

Even if your cake was from a box, it's still possible you were not lied to since the question you specifically asked really wasn't that specific if the bakery offers things other than the cake you ordered. "Will the cake I ordered be made from scratch or from a mix or mix base?"




True, that was my question to them, but I had just ordered a cake, so I think it was assumed that I was speaking about the cake I just ordered. Also, since I had just ordered it, I don't think there should have been a fear of me not ordering from them. I was just curious. And, honestly, I asked because it didn't say on their website (one sign that they don't bake from scratch) and because I'm thinking about opening my own shop and want to find ways to set myself apart from other bakeries in my area.

Quote:
Quote:

It still always comes down to, why did you even ask if they made their cakes from scratch or not. The implication is that a scratch baker is somehow superior to a non-scratch baker. Wrong!!!!!! If the cake taste great isn't that what you are really paying for? Asking if it is made from scratch really makes no sense. I've had box mixes that tasted wonderful and scratch recipes that I fed to my dog. Who cares whether scratch or box, make and sell me a wonderful tasting cake.




I don't think this is true at all. There are lots of reasons to ask a bakery whether they bake from scratch and it is not always implied that scratch is superior. I happen to like scratch cakes better, for a whole lot of reasons including taste. I want something that tastes great AND doesn't put unnecessary chemicals in my body. I do believe that I and others have a right to know what it is exactly that I'm putting into my body.

But that aside, my question to the bakery had nothing to do with comparing scratch with box-based cakes. It was "market research" and an attempt to find some thing(s) to use to set myself apart from them if I eventually open my own shop.

Given this whole debate, which I honestly didn't mean to start up again with this post, I have to ask, why are box-based cake bakers so defensive when someone brings up scratch baking?

all4cake Posted 27 Jan 2012 , 5:00am
post #90 of 145

I totally understand why you asked.

I worked in several bakeries both family owned and larger volume, and having been asked the same question you asked when ordering your cake many MANY times, over time, I began (and ultimately returned to) answering that question exactly as she did. Because the one, family owned, made so many things, some from scratch and some from a mix (most were from scratch but there were a few items offered that were made with a mix...very few...they even made their own pie crusts...thousands of them...from scratch), when a person asked, I would answer either yes or no depending on the item they ordered but thought I was being unfair to the owner and decided to answer something like, "yes, this ___ is" or "no, not this ___" which got me a reply something like, "Oh? you mean everything isn't made from scratch?" or "Oh? well, what IS made from scratch?". After discussing, again, with the owner, it was agreed that when asked if we bake from scratch the answer would be yes...period. If they asked particulars, by all means, tell them particulars all the way down to a list of ingredients if that's what they were asking.
I was just sayin' that that may have been the case with the bakery in your scenario.

Quote by @%username% on %date%

%body%