Illegal home baker help

Business By not_a_desperate_housewife Updated 21 Aug 2013 , 11:34pm by Tea1398

grama_j Posted 24 Jan 2012 , 6:39pm
post #31 of 68

This reminds me of the "SNITCH" in the classroom..." TEACHER , TEACHER, you forgot to give us homework for the weekend!" "OFFICER ! There is a little girl selling lemonade on Elm street!"

She will pay the price if and when she gets caught........ it is not your business.....

mysweets Posted 24 Jan 2012 , 6:44pm
post #32 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_a_desperate_housewife

I am pretty sure she only took one Wilton decorating class. That is it.




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jason_kraft Posted 24 Jan 2012 , 6:52pm
post #33 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by grama_j

This reminds me of the "SNITCH" in the classroom..." TEACHER , TEACHER, you forgot to give us homework for the weekend!"



A better analogy would be telling the teacher when you see someone referring to a crib sheet during an exam that's graded on a curve. You can either sit there and accept that you will get a lower grade than you deserve, or you can turn them in and keep the playing field level. I've done the latter on more than one occasion in college.

And yes, I know that some illegal bakers are unaware of the rules so it's not a perfect analogy, but the end result is the same: a marketplace where some businesses have unfair advantages.

grama_j Posted 24 Jan 2012 , 7:19pm
post #34 of 68

" You can either sit there and accept that you will get a lower grade than you deserve, or you can turn them in and keep the playing field level. I've done the latter on more than one occasion in college"

Apples and oranges, Jason....... YOU were being hurt by the outcome....... this person isn't even the decorator.......

jason_kraft Posted 24 Jan 2012 , 7:25pm
post #35 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by grama_j

this person isn't even the decorator.......



I have no idea if the OP is a decorator or not, if she owns her own business or not, if she's planning to open a new business in the area, etc. She asked a question and I answered it.

But looking again at the test example, if I was walking by and happened to notice someone cheating on a test I would bring it up with the proctor. It seems strange to me that someone would only report something if they personally were being hurt by it as opposed to other people being hurt.

grama_j Posted 24 Jan 2012 , 7:36pm
post #36 of 68

What ever, Jason......... I believe in LIVE AND LET LIVE...... people that do wrong will get theirs in the end...... Karma is .......well, Karma....... we have turned into a nation of whinners, and big brothers, and it saddens me......This thread is no longer about cake decorating, so it is the last I will post about the subject.....

jgifford Posted 24 Jan 2012 , 7:42pm
post #37 of 68

I waited for years to start my business so I could do it legally. This was my personal choice. In my opinion, the law is the law and it's there for a reason. Are you going to stand by and watch someone break the law and not do anything? Or complain and point fingers at someone who will do something?

While I don't agree that food poisoning is relegated to only home kitchens, or that taking only one Wilton class is a bad thing, I do agree that the HD should be notified. Whether or not they pursue it is up to them.

kimmisue2009 Posted 24 Jan 2012 , 7:56pm
post #38 of 68

Anybody ever heard of "vengeance is mine, saith the Lord"?

MacsMom Posted 24 Jan 2012 , 7:57pm
post #39 of 68

So many well known cake artists began from their home kitchens - or garages. Some SAHM's have even been on Food Network challenges, baking as a "hobby".

I agree with live and let live.

When you don't know someone's circumstances or long-term plans, why would you place such a strain on them? Who knows, by turning them in you may cause a foreclosure on their home, enough stress on a marraige to end it...

If you don't want to be competitive, perhaps offer her a job.

ReneeFLL Posted 24 Jan 2012 , 8:06pm
post #40 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_a_desperate_housewife

thank you for your responses!




Hmm icon_surprised.gif

jason_kraft Posted 24 Jan 2012 , 8:52pm
post #41 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmisue2009

Anybody ever heard of "vengeance is mine, saith the Lord"?



I'm an atheist, so entrusting that a higher power will take care of enforcing local food safety laws is not an option for me. And since I'm not Hindu, Sikh, or Buddhist, I don't believe in the concept of karma.

jgifford Posted 24 Jan 2012 , 8:57pm
post #42 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmisue2009

Anybody ever heard of "vengeance is mine, saith the Lord"?


I'm an atheist, so entrusting that a higher power will take care of enforcing local food safety laws is not an option for me. And since I'm not Hindu, Sikh, or Buddhist, I don't believe in the concept of karma.




I don't think it's so much that a higher power will enforce the laws as it is that we're supposed to obey the law of the land. And "karma" or "you reap what you sow" are another way of saying what goes around, comes around. icon_rolleyes.gif

jason_kraft Posted 24 Jan 2012 , 9:11pm
post #43 of 68

Hmm, so I suppose by helping people make sure legal businesses face fair competition in their area, I am inviting others to make sure businesses in my area are also operating fairly? Sounds good to me! icon_smile.gif
We sold our business last year so we are no longer running it, but I would have had no problem with someone contacting the relevant authorities if they thought we were doing something wrong.

kimmisue2009 Posted 24 Jan 2012 , 9:47pm
post #44 of 68

I think I might have known that, Jason - and I definitely meant no offense or disrespect to anyone's belief system. I have just personally found - after overcoming a long history of some well-taught passive aggressive behavior - that if I align myself in my daily walk these things generally tend to take care of themselves and I have much less about which to kvetch. That said, I do not operate a business, so technically I don't even have a cat in this fight. My goodness - I need to go find me some business!

Cakery2012 Posted 25 Jan 2012 , 1:38am
post #45 of 68

Im not saying what she should or shouldnt do. But since some offered a scenario . Here's another what if the illlegal seller sold something say a cream cheese icing gone bad ? Then the word gets all around the town "Dont buy the baked goods from the farmer's market many people got sick from them". Then no one buys baked goods from illegal baker or OP . What if OP has a commercial bakery and it ruins her commercial business and her financial well being ?

Annabakescakes Posted 25 Jan 2012 , 2:18am
post #46 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysweets

Quote:
Originally Posted by not_a_desperate_housewife

I am pretty sure she only took one Wilton decorating class. That is it.



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I agree! I never took a Wilton course, or any course. I am self taught and run my own business strictly on word of mouth, and have cakes every week, and even have had to tell people I was booked. Honestly, I am not impressed with Wilton, and their products are crap.

scp1127 Posted 25 Jan 2012 , 6:20am
post #47 of 68

For those who believe "live and let live", this is not a sound business decision and this scenario does not exist in the commercial world.

For those who like to justify because of unknown circumstances, remember, the illegal has many opportunities to earn money, but freely chooses it because it is what she wants to do. There is absolutely no excuse to bake illegally.

I am a self-made, always self-employed business person. The list of what people can do to make money is long enough for me to write a book. There is no reason to choose a path that involves licensing for the sole purpose of public safety, except that it is the most convenient and the most fun.

And many of us out there that legally own businesses have never baked an illegal cake.

Annabakescakes Posted 25 Jan 2012 , 7:29am
post #48 of 68

WOW!! The term "illegal cake" sounds completely ridiculous! Just sayin'....

HeidiL Posted 25 Jan 2012 , 4:17pm
post #49 of 68

Maybe what she's doing is against the law, but her customers can look into her credentials for themselves. If they choose to buy from her, knowing she's not licensed, then that is on them. Unless you have good reason to believe she is baking in an unsanitary environment or her baking practices could be compromising the health of her customers, I would just leave it alone. These things usually have a way of taking care of themselves eventually.

zespri Posted 25 Jan 2012 , 7:19pm
post #50 of 68

You have two choices here if you want her to stop.

1) Report her, and watch her and her family suffer the consequences.

2) Help her. If you feel uncomfortable, then send her a letter telling her what you've said here.

As a few posters have said, she might just need educating. If you truly feel it's your business to intercede, then I hope you take the high road and help her instead of hurting her.

jason_kraft Posted 25 Jan 2012 , 7:33pm
post #51 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by zespri

1) Report her, and watch her and her family suffer the consequences.

2) Help her. If you feel uncomfortable, then send her a letter telling her what you've said here.



In most cases, the "consequences" of reporting her will be that the health department tells her what she needs to do to get legal. No one gets thrown in jail, and fines are typically reserved for egregious offenders.

I wouldn't exactly call that "suffering". She would need to shut down until she was legal, but that would drastically reduce her exposure to catastrophic risk as an unlicensed and uninsured baker -- getting sued without liability protection is a far worse fate.

cakestyles Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 12:55am
post #52 of 68

Even though I live in a state that licenses home kitchens and in a town that does it fairly pain free, there are still "illegal bakers" or "unlicensed bakers" whatever term you prefer, popping up monthly.

Here's how I (a licensed and insured home baker) handle it. I e-mail them and introduce myself and forward them the information needed to become licensed. (how do I know their e-mail addresses you may ask? Well, they have FB pages and websites, even though they're not licensed and insured) It costs less than $100 to get an inspection and a license in my town and there is absolutely no reason why anybody can't do it. If it were thousands of dollars then maybe it would be difficult for some, but $100??? Save $2 a week and in one year you'll have enough. Sorry, I have no sympathy for the "but we can't afford it" argument when the fee is as small as $100. The HD is very nice and very willing to help these people out.

Most of the people I've e-mailed have been receptive and thankful for the information because they didn't even know they were breaking the rules/laws. I've had a couple who weren't so receptive, so I just happened to mention that to the HD when I saw her.

If I wasn't in business I wouldn't care what they did, but if they're going to "play baker" and pretend they own a REAL business then they better do it legally.

ellawillow Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 3:04am
post #53 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by grama_j

What ever, Jason......... I believe in LIVE AND LET LIVE...... people that do wrong will get theirs in the end...... Karma is .......well, Karma....... we have turned into a nation of whinners, and big brothers, and it saddens me......This thread is no longer about cake decorating, so it is the last I will post about the subject.....





Love your reply grama-j .......sad but true.........a nation of whinners and big brothers we have become - your reply says it all, could not have put it better myself. thumbs_up.gif

jason_kraft Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 3:09am
post #54 of 68

In my mind it's better than a nation where everyone says "can't someone else do it?" and "as long as it's not hurting me, I don't care". That's the opposite of what a community is supposed to be.

ellawillow Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 4:53am
post #55 of 68

Interesting take there on your definition of community - I actually thought a community helped and supported its members so I don't see how reporting this person would do that. If the original poster has a personal grievence with the 'illegal baker' aka criminal maybe she should confront her directly. 'In my mind' people try to get others to back them up to then justify why they done something so their conscience does not trouble them at night......just my opinion tho.......no doubt the starving folks in Africa will have their own opinion on this very serious matter as well icon_wink.gif

jason_kraft Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 5:10am
post #56 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellawillow

Interesting take there on your definition of community - I actually thought a community helped and supported its members so I don't see how reporting this person would do that.



A community does help and support its members, to the extent that those members follow the rules of the community. If people break the rules, they are guided back to the right path...with information at first (ideally provided by specialists paid for by the community, i.e. the health dept), then more punitive measures if that information is ignored. If there are no consequences for breaking the rules, you may as well not have rules in the first place. And if you disagree with the rules, you should work to change them or move somewhere else.

scp1127 Posted 26 Jan 2012 , 5:40am
post #57 of 68

The law is purely and 100% put in place for public safety. With that fact in mind, every person who does not report is not acting in the best interest of the community. Look at your own words in the context of public good.

This belief, and I call it that since there is no sound business advice to it, exists because many people who choose this industry have no skin in the game. If you had to make a real investment where your much needed income or home was on the line, and your business was doing well due to your great knowledge of business, you would protect your investment just like every other licensed industry does.

In an industry where very little can be invested to operate illegally or not, sound business decisions do not always come into play. But for those of you who are reading this and want to run a business based on solid business practices, not a hobby that makes a little money, protect your investment and don't feel ashamed to do it.

I'm not saying that you must turn someone in, but don't feel bad if you choose to do so.

Tea1398 Posted 12 Aug 2013 , 6:12pm
post #58 of 68

I was reading everyone thread. We all at some point had sold cakes to someone or made cakes for someone that may not had a license kitchen or home or any type of business establishment or business license at all. But like Jason_Kraft stated we all have to start from somewhere. Not everyone can afford incubator kitchen or as such to get their business started.Most people who start their cake business is by doing side jobs and building up their clientele and hopefully they earned enough money to be legal because it does gets expensive hopefully in the process that no one gets sick or hurt and she is not taking any food off of any one plate but we have to get our start from somewhere. Maybe instead of reporting her maybe you can be that blessing that she need to be legal. We all need each other. Sometimes getting a little help from one another is what we need because we know that it is illegal but what are the resources that she need to become a legal Business Owner. I don't believe it's her intention to harm anyone on purpose. And things do happen but maybe we can help one another to get started with our business and be legal so there wont be a lot of bakers who are operating illegal business sometimes you have to do a couple cakes to make that money to become legal. I know that you all didn't ask for my input just wanted to share. Try talking to that person out of Love and caring about the well being of them and others you will be surprise the type of impact you will have out of that person. But if they still choose to operate in such a manner then you take the necessary steps to report them. At least you did your part and try to help them be successful. That's what it's all about. Doing things the right way.

Tea1398 Posted 12 Aug 2013 , 6:16pm
post #59 of 68

Exactly!

kikiandkyle Posted 12 Aug 2013 , 6:48pm
post #60 of 68

AActually we didn't all do that, I've never taken a penny for a cake I've done, ever. Not for ingredients, not as a donation, not ever.

Not sure why you brought this old thread back up but I wanted to let you know that your statement was incorrect.

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