It Only Takes One

Business By platinumlady Updated 7 Dec 2011 , 6:18am by DragonFly2333

platinumlady Posted 26 Nov 2011 , 6:23am
post #1 of 33

It's a shame that one person has to make it hard on everyone. However, today I learned a very valuable lesson. I had a customer that paid in full for their cake & picked it up on the agreed date. Almost a month later she called her CC company to say it was an unauthorized payment. Since this payment went through Paypal..they said the only way they can dispute it for me is if I had some other proof that it was her that picked up the cake...ie..her signature on the pick-up form. So since the place where my commercial kitchen is located is closed until Monday (office part); I will have to wait to see if I can get a copy of the surveillance of her coming in and picking up the cake. So from this point forward...everyone will have to sign a document that I'll keep in my files that say they picked up the cake or even delivered the cake... Or no cake not matter what.

And the even crazier part is this is someone that kinda knows me outside of my business & is one of my FB friends. And the day after she filed the dispute she was on my page talking about how much they loved the cake. *smh

She gave Paypal a false address (an address that doesn't exist) during the dispute process so I know she knew what she was doing. Little does she know I have her real address & the collection letter has been sent out. She has until the 2nd of Dec. to take care of the balance plus a returned item fee or it will turn it over to my attorneys.

Now I kind feel bad about having all future customers sign a pick-up receipt However, I gotta cover my asset.

32 replies
azchic Posted 26 Nov 2011 , 6:49am
post #2 of 33

I'm so sorry this happened to you, its a shame when people do things like this. good luck

CakeRN Posted 26 Nov 2011 , 7:13am
post #3 of 33

Well you can always copy the or send the stuff from Facebook about how good the cake was to the credit card company and to your attny. The police use facebook to get people all the time.

Sometimes you just wonder what the he&& people are thinking...cheap a## heathens if you ask me. What is their purpose in life? Are they proud of themselves that they stole from someone? I just dont understand.

ChilliPepper Posted 26 Nov 2011 , 10:24am
post #4 of 33

Sometimes I wonder if I am from a different planet! People never cease to amaze me with their selfishness and greed. Hope it all works out for you OK.

Love,
CP xxx

Norasmom Posted 26 Nov 2011 , 12:49pm
post #5 of 33

That is awful. I hope you get your money. Best wishes to you!

knlcox Posted 26 Nov 2011 , 1:34pm
post #6 of 33

This is horrible! I'm sorry it happened to you. I couldn't believe it when I read it. I hope everything works out for you!

kakeladi Posted 26 Nov 2011 , 2:29pm
post #7 of 33

......kinda knows me outside of my business & is one of my FB friends. And the day after she filed the dispute she was on my page talking about how much they loved the cake.........

I would think this would be proof enough. Have you tried giving this info to PayPal?

As another poster said, how do these people think up such garbage?? Why don't they use their brains for doing GOOD instead of always coming up w/problems for other people?

Goreti Posted 26 Nov 2011 , 2:31pm
post #8 of 33

After working for over 30 yrs in customer service & sales, nothing surprises me anymore. This is one of the reasons I am reluctant to even consider selling my cakes. I bake only for family & friends and give them as gifts. It is an expensive hobby but.... It is amazing what some people come up with. The worse part is that they have children who are learning this stuff and the cycle goes on & on & on.

karateka Posted 26 Nov 2011 , 2:40pm
post #9 of 33

I really can't say I'm surprised. I sure hope she gets what's coming to her.

Occther Posted 26 Nov 2011 , 2:58pm
post #10 of 33

Sounds like she has over extended her credit and needs a "creative" way to obtain holiday money. What a scam. Hope you get this resolved in your favor.

Lenette Posted 26 Nov 2011 , 3:10pm
post #11 of 33

That's just dirty, why do people have to be like that... As someone said above, why can't they use their time and brainpower for something positive instead of trying to scam others. Sheesh!

jason_kraft Posted 26 Nov 2011 , 3:11pm
post #12 of 33

I don't see why you are feeling bad about making customers sign their invoice when you deliver the cake, this is a common practice. I've never had a customer complain or even think twice about it.

Also, I would switch to a different credit card processor immediately, Paypal is one of the worst (as you've seen).

mariacakestoo Posted 26 Nov 2011 , 3:18pm
post #13 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by karateka

I really can't say I'm surprised. I sure hope she gets what's coming to her.



Unfortunately, I didn't react with an "omg" like I would have a few years ago. It's sad, that yes, that doesn't surprise me. icon_sad.gif

FromScratchSF Posted 26 Nov 2011 , 4:53pm
post #14 of 33

It's called a chargeback and it's the new form of shoplifting. I had someone do this right when I first started selling cakes. I do NOT use Paypal, I use Google Merchant. Switch to them right away for all your processing. They actually "verify" every transaction and most if them are guaranteed, so even if someone claims a chargeback you are covered 100%. Most people have google email accounts so all their transactions are tied to it... it's hard to fool the all powerful and all knowing Google.

I changed the way I process my cards in a few important ways. First, I added chargeback language on the FAQs of my webpage, and I put a link to my FAQs on every invoice that goes out. This is really important.

Every invoice is printed as soon as I get a notification that the card is processed. That invoice is signed and dated at delivery/pick-up.

Paypal is the devil. Google rules.

BTW, even without a signed receipt I "won" against the person claiming the chargeback just by emailing Google copies of our correspondence about the cake (which the person was sending using a Google email address). It took a little time though, it would have been faster if I could have emailed them a copy of the signed receipt.

platinumlady Posted 26 Nov 2011 , 10:53pm
post #15 of 33

Thanks all .... I was already in the process of switching over from paypal..& this was the one of the last customers using paypal.

Thanks for the idea about FB & the correspondence...I will get back in touch with them & get this resolved.

I'm just trying to remain professional

Y'all have a great weekend

scp1127 Posted 27 Nov 2011 , 4:02am
post #16 of 33

I use Paypal because of the fact that customers feel safe using it. New people to my site must place an order and pay for it without ever meeting me or knowing if I will deliver the product. My prices are much more expensive than my competitors and the peace of mind for my customers is important to me. That is also why I include my address and a picture of the house so that people know how to track me down if they feel unsure. I personally use Paypal whenever I can because of their "pro customer" policies.



But this has been an eye-opener and I will be getting a signature from now on.

Apti Posted 27 Nov 2011 , 5:14am
post #17 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by FromScratchSF

It's called a chargeback and it's the new form of shoplifting. I had someone do this right when I first started selling cakes. I do NOT use Paypal, I use Google Merchant. Switch to them right away for all your processing. They actually "verify" every transaction and most if them are guaranteed, so even if someone claims a chargeback you are covered 100%. Most people have google email accounts so all their transactions are tied to it... it's hard to fool the all powerful and all knowing Google.

I changed the way I process my cards in a few important ways. First, I added chargeback language on the FAQs of my webpage, and I put a link to my FAQs on every invoice that goes out. This is really important.

Every invoice is printed as soon as I get a notification that the card is processed. That invoice is signed and dated at delivery/pick-up.

Paypal is the devil. Google rules.

BTW, even without a signed receipt I "won" against the person claiming the chargeback just by emailing Google copies of our correspondence about the cake (which the person was sending using a Google email address). It took a little time though, it would have been faster if I could have emailed them a copy of the signed receipt.




I have never heard of a fraudalent "chargeback", so I did a search and found this page with Paypal's info.
https://www.paypal.com/row/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/cps/general/Protections-outside&pal=P5FXM26HG6VFG&mrb=R-5VX693682T783731H

May I ask why Paypal is the devil? I don't understand why/how Google Merchant can verify each transaction. If somebody's going to be a creep and submit a fraudalent chargeback, how if Google different than Paypal?
(Seems that cheats will always find a way....)

I'm not defending Paypal or showing any kind of preference, I just honestly don't know how one is safer than the other.

OP--so sorry this happened to you. Sounds like you have more than enough proof to remedy your loss (but not your aggravation and time).

costumeczar Posted 28 Nov 2011 , 11:54am
post #18 of 33

I use paypal and have never had a problem until one recently, so I was thinking of looking into other options. I don't see how google merchant can verify every transaction either, but it's worth looking into. The advantage of paypal is that most people know about it already. But then again, most people do know about google too icon_rolleyes.gif

jason_kraft Posted 28 Nov 2011 , 5:24pm
post #19 of 33

The issue with PayPal is that they act like a bank, but since they are not a real bank they do not have to follow banking regulations. Using PayPal isn't so bad if you do so sparingly as a last resort (for example, with international customers who do not have a US credit card), and you maintain a zero PP balance with no links to real bank accounts (or only linking to a throwaway real account with a minimal balance).

I've heard horror stories where people have relied on PP for their personal finances, businesses, or both, and a single chargeback or fraud alert results in the entire PP account being frozen. Suddenly you have no access to your funds until PP decides to unfreeze the account.

Other services like merchant accounts, Google Checkout, or Square do not have this problem because they interface directly with your real bank account.

Apti Posted 28 Nov 2011 , 6:11pm
post #20 of 33

Thanks JasonKraft. The explanation is very much appreciated. I only use Paypal for my online buying transactions. I don't sell anything since I am a retired, hobby baker giving away free cakes. The only time I've ever had money sent to me was from a friend in Australia.

As a buyer, it is so much easier and seems so much safer to use PayPal. It is ubiquitous on all my online "stores".

It would be nice to see some other options, however, so PayPal does not continue to be a virtual (pun) monopoly.

p.s. JasonKraft~~I greatly admire your business sense/ethics/approach to caking as a BUSINESS, not just a "feel good" enterprise. You contribute a great deal to this forum.

costumeczar Posted 28 Nov 2011 , 10:13pm
post #21 of 33

That's what happened with paypal for me recently...they suddenly claimed that my business account that I've used for years hadn't been verified, so I had a limit of $500 for withdrawals imposed per month. When I went in to verify it again all of my information was sitting right there, and I basically had to reenter the same stuff that I had on file then wait for the credit card to send me a verification code.

Let's just say that the person I called to yell at was less than helpful and didn't know what had happened, nor did he want to make any effort to correct it. If I was relying on that money I'd have been in trouble, but luckily I don't spend deposits until the cake is delivered, so it wasn't critical that I get it immediately.

jgifford Posted 28 Nov 2011 , 10:50pm
post #22 of 33

This isn't unique to Pay Pal or Google either, for that matter. Anyone can dispute any credit card transaction at any time and it's on the other party to prove it's valid.

It's all over - - I have customers (at my job) disputing twenty invoices at a time, because until the dispute is settled, they don't have to pay it. Does wonders for cash flow.

scp1127 Posted 29 Nov 2011 , 3:28am
post #23 of 33

I had to re-verify my account, but it consisted of entering my SS# and the $500.00 limit was immediately lifted.

For Paypal, I have two bank accounts. Paypal transfers to the first one, a revenue account, and I immediately transfer to the working account. I may get burned one day, but the security of the transaction for the customer is more important to me. Those of you who are artists usually meet with your clients. I usually don't before the money changes hands. I need for the client to feel comfortable with the transaction.

lorieleann Posted 29 Nov 2011 , 3:42am
post #24 of 33

I stopped using pay pal after a friend (who works at a bank) got hacked via pay pal and had her accounts all messed up. I'm not sure the details, but When I asked her to pay for her wedding cake via pay pal and she said no because she had a very bad experience, I looked into other options.

Now I use Square and so far it has been a very good experience.

costumeczar Posted 29 Nov 2011 , 1:05pm
post #25 of 33

I think that regardless of which service you use, you're open to problems, but it's worth it for the conveninence to the customer. I'd rather be able to give people the option of paying with a credit card than not, so a glitch here and there isn't a big deal in the overall picture. It's aggravating when it does happen, but for the amount of business that I do using paypal the problems are few and far between.

Even if you go back to only taking checks they can still bounce. And if you stick to cash only they could give you counterfeit money icon_rolleyes.gif Nothing's totally secure.

lrlt2000 Posted 29 Nov 2011 , 1:12pm
post #26 of 33

Wow, that is so terrible. You are right--it only takes one. icon_sad.gif Thanks for the insight.

Ednarooni Posted 29 Nov 2011 , 2:49pm
post #27 of 33

Guess I'm confused..you said at the top she paid in full but she has a balance to pay by Dec..?? I understand the returned item fee but what would the balance be. Sorry you had to go through this.

"I had a customer that paid in full for their cake & picked it up on the agreed date.
She has until the 2nd of Dec. to take care of the balance plus a returned item fee"

Cakewishes Posted 29 Nov 2011 , 2:53pm
post #28 of 33

I am sorry you are going through this, but I am a bit confused as Ednarooni is - at the top of your e-mail you said she paid in full and then you said there was a balance and a rental deposit fee. So are you trying to get your rental deposit fee back, as well as fight her dispute of a fraudulent charge or on top of everything else does she still owe you a cake balance?

xoxoemilyrae Posted 30 Nov 2011 , 6:56am
post #29 of 33

I think what the OP meant was that the customer has until the 2nd to pay her back the money I'm assuming Paypal took out of the OPs account + plus the overdraft fee from the OPs bank. (That occurred when Paypal took that out to repay the customer.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but thats what I got out of it.

platinumlady Posted 5 Dec 2011 , 11:19am
post #30 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ednarooni

Guess I'm confused..you said at the top she paid in full but she has a balance to pay by Dec..?? I understand the returned item fee but what would the balance be. Sorry you had to go through this.

"I had a customer that paid in full for their cake & picked it up on the agreed date.
She has until the 2nd of Dec. to take care of the balance plus a returned item fee"




She paid in full...then a month later told her CC company that it was an unauthorized purchase. Paypal returned her the money... So since she's already picked up and consumed the cake ... she now has a balance which is the price of the cake + a returned item fee.

I have to pursue this outside of Paypal because they told me that the only way they dispute a chargeback is if there was online tracking information. icon_confused.gif This was the information I was told after I told them I had her on surveillance & an eye witness that escorted her back to the kitchen. because the 1st thing they stated they would need proof that it was her that got the cake...When I got the proof the wouldn't accept it.

I had already started switching to Intuit so I will be using them. Right now my Paypal account is at a negative but I'm not rushing to pay that because I feel they could have done better with communicating with me abut this. I started using Paypal because it makes it easier to order online items that I may need for that cake order since once they pay via credit/debit the money is available immediately. So my customers also pay in advance... & I'm not changing that....Some have met me at my office or Starbucks or some place similar to make the payment when they didn't want to use Paypal. So those options will remain the same.

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