Is It Just Me? Posting Recipes That Are From...

Decorating By ptanyer Updated 27 Sep 2011 , 7:47am by JanH

ptanyer Posted 26 Sep 2011 , 1:52am
post #1 of 29

When I see people post recipes on CC from books they didn't write, I get so mad icon_mad.gif What gives anyone the right to publish a recipe without the author's permission? That is just so wrong, and to compound matters, CC allowed this to happen on the front page in the recipes featured. Yes, the author's name is referenced, but author's work hard on their books and for someone to take portions of it and publish it online takes money out of the pocket of the author and the publishing house.

I had the opportunity to speak to a well known cake decorator at the Charlotte ICES this year, and she had a lot to say about people "stealing" from her book and publishing it willy nilly on the internet. I don't blame her for feeling that way at all.

This shouldn't happen, but especially shouldn't be allowed to happen here on CC.

28 replies
cakestyles Posted 26 Sep 2011 , 2:02am
post #2 of 29

It's one thing to photocopy a page from a book and post it...that's wrong.


But if the recipes are on the internet like so many thousands of them are, how can anyone really know who the originator was?

It would be almost impossible to control that with the way technology is today.



Not sure if that's what you mean or not.

ptanyer Posted 26 Sep 2011 , 2:12am
post #3 of 29

That is wrong too! But I was referring to people who post a recipe and say it's from so and so's book. I think that the moderators would see that and PM the poster to ask if they wrote the book being referred to. When they didn't, CC shouldn't publish the recipes, particularly in the featured recipes on the front page.

I agree that the internet is full of all kinds of things like this. It just burns me to see it here on CC because it is my understanding that the CC Magazine asks contributors to it's magazine to not discuss or publish their work or ideas prior to publication in the magazine.

I know that there will be people who don't agree, but to me it's wrong.

cakestyles Posted 26 Sep 2011 , 2:16am
post #4 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptanyer

That is wrong too! But I was referring to people who post a recipe and say it's from so and so's book. I think that the moderators would see that and PM the poster to ask if they wrote the book being referred to. When they didn't, CC shouldn't publish the recipes, particularly in the featured recipes on the front page.




I'm actually surprised that wasn't deleted. I didn't notice it, but I don't pay much attention to those recipes on the home page.

scp1127 Posted 26 Sep 2011 , 5:29am
post #5 of 29

I agree with this totally. I have never shared a recipe from a copyrighted book unless the author released it on the internet, such as Warren Brown's recipes on his site, recipes Buddy releases to newspapers, SW's recipes in papers, or recipes shared with Food Network. Rose LB has published several of her recipes and I will share those... or rather pass them along. And I too believe it is wrong to condone it and to promote it. I think it is important to make a stand and respect copyrighted and trademarked property.

This is something to think about: For those of you who do reprint these recipes, you may find yourself liable for copyright infringement much like people are beginning to be charged for trademark infringement with many of these protected cakes. Your postings on the web are cached and you can't take it back. Two years from now, you could get a certified letter and a fine.

Nusi Posted 26 Sep 2011 , 5:48am
post #6 of 29

honeslty yeah i do think it is wrong although for instant martha stewart publishes her recipies "some of them not all" on the internet.. so if i repost that it is ok isnt it?

scp1127 Posted 26 Sep 2011 , 5:54am
post #7 of 29

Yes, you can repost anything that the author has made public. But not that just anyone has made public. An example is Cakeman Raven's Red Velvet Cake recipe. He was on a Throwdown with Bobby Flay and gave his recipe. There are many Throwdown contenders who choose not to share their recipe, even if they win. Just make sure it came from the author. Copying from a book is illegal, as we all know that the copyright notice is in every book we purchase. They do mean it.

snocilla Posted 26 Sep 2011 , 6:03am
post #8 of 29

To me it's just as bad when someone asks for instructions from a book too! A couple of weeks ago, someone specifically asked for instructions for a popular cake out of one of Debbie Brown's books, saying she absolutely had to make it for her son. I told her, if she absolutely HAD to make it, the book is only around $15. But of course someone gave her instructions.

scp1127 Posted 26 Sep 2011 , 6:09am
post #9 of 29

The library has many of these popular cookbooks and Amazon sells all of them used.

JamAndButtercream Posted 26 Sep 2011 , 11:22am
post #10 of 29

If this thread is talking about the recipes I posted, they are in the process of being deleted.

scp1127 Posted 26 Sep 2011 , 5:49pm
post #11 of 29

Jam, I never looked at the recipes, so I am not referring to you. This is an ongoing issue that I've seen the whole time I have been watching CC. It is no different than the licensed character cake issue. This is just the first time I have seen it addressed.

I have shared a few recipes in pm's, but that is one-on-one, as if I shared with a friend or it was from a book in the book from the library. I also provide all of my changes so that it is no longer anyone's recipe but my own. The issue is publishing copyrighted material on the web for all the world to see.

I usually limit my sugestions on CC to published recipes. In pm's, I ask the poster to get the recipe and I will email the way I adjusted it. I only give links to authorized sites.

Anyone who is unclear of copyright infringement laws, I suggest that you google it. There are numerous sites that explain them in simple terms. This is extreme, but copying something ten times or more moves it out of civil court and becomes a federal criminal offense, just like the character cakes. Before the internet, there was no way to find these infringements. Now lawyers can hire low wage employees to google the item and everyone's evidence conveniently pops up. This is a lucrative field with more companies hiring attorneys, and it will only grow as a field of law.

ShandraB Posted 26 Sep 2011 , 6:10pm
post #12 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptanyer

When I see people post recipes on CC from books they didn't write, I get so mad icon_mad.gif What gives anyone the right to publish a recipe without the author's permission? That is just so wrong, and to compound matters, CC allowed this to happen on the front page in the recipes featured. Yes, the author's name is referenced, but author's work hard on their books and for someone to take portions of it and publish it online takes money out of the pocket of the author and the publishing house.

I had the opportunity to speak to a well known cake decorator at the Charlotte ICES this year, and she had a lot to say about people "stealing" from her book and publishing it willy nilly on the internet. I don't blame her for feeling that way at all.

This shouldn't happen, but especially shouldn't be allowed to happen here on CC.




Hear, Hear!

ptanyer Posted 26 Sep 2011 , 9:50pm
post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamAndButtercream

If this thread is talking about the recipes I posted, they are in the process of being deleted.




Yes, your recipes are the reason I posted this thread. BTW, one of the recipes is still on the front page. There are other ways to give props to those creative sources who published books without publishing their work for free and working against the person you are praising. You could have posted a thread about a great recipe you found in a book by the name of the author. That doesn't damage them, it promotes their work.

I have cited several recipes I used since I started caking. I always say the name of the author and I have never shared a recipe out of a book. I point people to the name of the book and the author so they can purchase the book and have their own copy.

But as much as I deplore what you did, I am just as disappointed that CC allowed it to happen. They are such a stickler for other rules that this just astounds me.

myslady Posted 26 Sep 2011 , 10:45pm
post #14 of 29

I think it would have been more beneficial to take this matter up with the parties involved and then post the reasons of why one should not copy or post things directly from a book or other source.

costumeczar Posted 26 Sep 2011 , 11:16pm
post #15 of 29

You can't copyright a recipe, but you can copyright the word-for-word instructions for that recipe. To be courteous you should probably link to the original source and not post it yourself, but posting a list of ingredients isn't copyright violation.

Martha Stewart has made a career out of taking other people's recipes and switching "1Tbsp" to "3 tsp" to say that it wasn't from so-and-so's cookbook.

I don't think you should violate copyrights, obviously, I'm just saying that just because someone posted a recipe it doesn't mean that it's original to that source, either. There are plenty of people who sell their "unique recipes" to people but they're nothing more than someone else's stuff that's been recycled a million times. I can think of plenty of cake decorating DVDs I've seen that include people's "special formulas" that are nothing more than basic recipes that you can find everywhere, but people seem to love them anyway.

MimiFix Posted 26 Sep 2011 , 11:18pm
post #16 of 29

Bless you all! I want to jump through my computer and give each of you a huge hug!! This is such a thoughtful discussion. Speaking as an author with two published books, I sincerely thank you for talking about this. It irritates me that otherwise intelligent people post recipes (or even portions from a book) and actually think they are wonderful for "supporting" the author. That kind of support does not pay my bills.

gmfcakes Posted 26 Sep 2011 , 11:32pm
post #17 of 29

I agree with Costumeczar & myslady.

auzzi Posted 26 Sep 2011 , 11:37pm
post #18 of 29

A list of ingredients in a recipe is not subject to copyright.

The author of a recipe has copyright over their unique description or explanations with any drawings or photos as well.

The Publisher of a cookbook has copyright over the book. This means it's physical appearance [size, material used, colours, fonts, layout, etc] It does not mean they have rights over the recipes in the book.

A person who produces their own cookbook has copyright over the book [as the publisher] and rights over their unique description or explanations, and any graphics.

Quote:
Quote:

Copyright law does not protect recipes that are mere listings of ingredients. Nor does it protect other mere listings of ingredients such as those found in formulas, compounds, or prescriptions. Copyright protection may, however, extend to substantial literary expressiona description, explanation, or illustration, for examplethat accompanies a recipe or formula or to a combination of recipes, as in a cookbook.



U.S. Copyright Office November 2010

Quote:
Quote:

Under the present copyright law, the copyright in a separate contribution to a published collective work such as a periodical is distinct from the copyright in the collective work as a whole. In the absence of an express transfer from the author of the individual article, the copyright owner in the collective work is presumed to have acquired only the privilege of using the contribution in the collective work and in subsequent revisions and later editions of the collective work.



U.S. Copyright Office January 2011

cakestyles Posted 26 Sep 2011 , 11:43pm
post #19 of 29

Very interesting.

coloradoflower Posted 27 Sep 2011 , 12:10am
post #20 of 29

ptanyer no offense but if it bothers you this much wouldn't it make sense to pm that person and explain as to what she did wrong. Instead of posting in forums which is your right I just don't see how it fixes anything. Where that person may or may come across it. It so happens the person did come across this post.
Not trying to upset anyone just curiosity that's all. Maybe some people dont realize how they are hurting authors by posting recipes from their book. I haven't posted any recipes on any website.

kelleym Posted 27 Sep 2011 , 12:35am
post #21 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by coloradoflower

ptanyer no offense but if it bothers you this much wouldn't it make sense to pm that person and explain as to what she did wrong.

[snip]

Maybe some people dont realize how they are hurting authors by posting recipes from their book.



I would presume that is exactly why ptanyer posted it as a thread - to educate more than just one person.

cakestyles Posted 27 Sep 2011 , 12:47am
post #22 of 29

icon_lol.gif

ptanyer Posted 27 Sep 2011 , 2:41am
post #23 of 29

My issues were:

1. Posting a recipe from a book that you didn't write and therefore have no right to post/publish the recipe without the author's specific permission; and

2. That CC would allow the posting of a recipe that came from a book not written by the poster.

Those were the reasons I posted this thread. This recipe is still on the front page, and available in the recipes section, as well as several other recipes from the same author, Ann Nicol:

"Fondant/Sugar Paste
Posted by JamAndButtercream in Fondant/Gumpaste/Sugarpaste
This recipe is from a cupcakes and muffins book by Ann Nicol." and then the recipe is given.

Authors deserve the common courtesy to preserve their right to publish and to be compensated financially for their work. When you publish a recipe from their book when the author hasn't done so, you are essentially stealing from them. Referring people to the author and his/her book and the recipe is the better way to point out a recipe you like and want others to know about.

CC posted the recipes without consideration that the poster was not the author, which is supposed to be against their terms and conditions.

MimiFix Posted 27 Sep 2011 , 2:58am
post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptanyer

My issues were:

1. Posting a recipe from a book that you didn't write and therefore have no right to post/publish the recipe without the author's specific permission; and

2. That CC would allow the posting of a recipe that came from a book not written by the poster.

Those were the reasons I posted this thread. This recipe is still on the front page, and available in the recipes section, as well as several other recipes from the same author, Ann Nicol:

"Fondant/Sugar Paste
Posted by JamAndButtercream in Fondant/Gumpaste/Sugarpaste
This recipe is from a cupcakes and muffins book by Ann Nicol." and then the recipe is given.

Authors deserve the common courtesy to preserve their right to publish and to be compensated financially for their work. When you publish a recipe from their book when the author hasn't done so, you are essentially stealing from them. Referring people to the author and his/her book and the recipe is the better way to point out a recipe you like and want others to know about.

CC posted the recipes without consideration that the poster was not the author, which is supposed to be against their terms and conditions.




Thank you, ptanyer, for making this point in a clear manner.

coloradoflower Posted 27 Sep 2011 , 3:05am
post #25 of 29

I agree with everyone but how many recipes do y'all think have been posted on CC that came from a book without the authors knowledge? I mean the only anyone knows she got it from a book because she wrote so. Just saying .....

scp1127 Posted 27 Sep 2011 , 3:34am
post #26 of 29

My posts have referred to the copyright of the book.

Yes, a few changes and a slightly different description will fix that issue. But I believe in the purpose of the law that protects the author. I still believe it is morally wrong even if you do change a few words. I don't allow my children to download pirated music even though may of their friends get their music for free. I believe in paying an artist or author for their hard work.

How many times have we seen threads where someone posted someone else's picture of a cake? The thread will go on for pages of outraged cake designers. We all have to pick a side of the fence. Or do you jump from side to side depending on which suits you at the moment?

I have MimiFix's book and costumeczar's. I could have given them away to members who pm me for business information, but instead I refer people to the books on Amazon where they can purchase them. They deserve to get paid.

This is just my point of view. I don't expect people to agree. I'm just sharing.

nickshalfpint Posted 27 Sep 2011 , 3:40am
post #27 of 29

If I use a recipe that someone posted out of a book and I like it, I go out and buy the book because 99% of the time there will be more great recipes. I think most people do the same thing. And I guarantee most recipes posted on here and other websites are from books and are not their original recipes. I actually ordered Cupcakes and Muffins by Ann Nicol because of her posted recipe. I would have never heard of the book if it wasn't for the posted recipe. So I guess I see both sides.

myslady Posted 27 Sep 2011 , 5:49am
post #28 of 29

I understood what your issues were when you posted. While I don't agree with the practice either, I also didn't agree with your making an example of one person when other's on this site have done the same thing. You can search cake central for martha stewart, toba garrett and who knows how many others find their recipes posted on here.

Has a moderator been notified about the recipes to help get them removed for the reasons you posted.

JanH Posted 27 Sep 2011 , 7:47am
post #29 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptanyer

When I see people post recipes on CC from books they didn't write, I get so mad icon_mad.gif What gives anyone the right to publish a recipe without the author's permission? That is just so wrong, and to compound matters, CC allowed this to happen on the front page in the recipes featured. Yes, the author's name is referenced, but author's work hard on their books and for someone to take portions of it and publish it online takes money out of the pocket of the author and the publishing house.

I had the opportunity to speak to a well known cake decorator at the Charlotte ICES this year, and she had a lot to say about people "stealing" from her book and publishing it willy nilly on the internet. I don't blame her for feeling that way at all.

This shouldn't happen, but especially shouldn't be allowed to happen here on CC.




The moderators can't read each and every post. If there's an issue with any post at any time the easiest way to report it is to use the "report bad post" tab. Or you can pm a moderator with the particulars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heath

Hi everyone -

From time to time it is necessary for us to put out a reminder about some of the important rules of using the forums.

One very common thing is to share information you found somewhere else. Very commonly a user will quote the information from another site and then provide a link to it. While this may seem like a good way to present the information it is actually a violation of the terms of use. Here is an excerpt from the user agreement:

Quote:
Quote:

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. This includes, but is not limited to any copyrighted or trademarked material. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed). The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions.



The reason for this rule is not an effort on the part of Cake Central to make sharing information more difficult. It is there to protect the copyrights of other websites or authors. Not only does directly quoting the information violate the copyrights of the original author, it puts Cake Central at risk of ligitation.

So the proper way to provide that information is to type a brief description of what you are linking to and then provide a direct link to the content.

Please PM me, Jackie, or any Moderator if you have a question about this.

As Cake Central grows larger and larger, this will become a larger and larger issue. Please protect yourself and Cake Central when sharing information.




http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-28708-information.html

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