CiNoRi Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 1:02pm
post #1 of

Hi all!

I talked with the Betty Crocker Rep at the ICES convention this weekend, and he mentioned that the mix recipe is changing (From what I gather on all Flavors) I assume this is going to throw a wrench in our WASC and the like recipes!

I don't think the new mix has hit the shelves just yet but it is coming. And from what I gather they are not going to make any big announcements or noticable markings on the boxes.

Per my concern they gave me a box to try to I will be doing that this week, I will keep you posted on any info. I just wanted to give you all a heads up!

Thanks!

64 replies
kakeladi Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 1:22pm
post #2 of

...........I don't think the new mix has hit the shelves just yet ..........

Yah, it has -someone posted that the weight is like 2 oz less and the box is an inch smaller icon_sad.gif

Kiddiekakes Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 1:46pm
post #3 of

I doubt a big company like Betty Crocker is gonna totally revamp it's mixes to change everything...They have been successful for many years with this recipe....I doubt they are seriously gonna change it and risk losing sales...Like somone said..They are making the packages a bit smaller but that's about it.

CiNoRi Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 1:54pm
post #4 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiddiekakes

I doubt a big company like Betty Crocker is gonna totally revamp it's mixes to change everything...They have been successful for many years with this recipe....I doubt they are seriously gonna change it and risk losing sales...Like somone said..They are making the packages a bit smaller but that's about it.




The recipe has changed, the box calls for different ratios of the liquids. Also the rep gave me some information about the new mix. As soon as I have down time I'll post it.

I plan to just make my normal WASC Recipe using the mix... It might not be enough of a change to matter but then again it might... We'll see.

CiNoRi Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 1:56pm
post #5 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by kakeladi

...........I don't think the new mix has hit the shelves just yet ..........

Yah, it has -someone posted that the weight is like 2 oz less and the box is an inch smaller icon_sad.gif




Ok good least we have a way to tell the old from the new easily. I had not had a chance to compare.

Kiddiekakes Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 1:57pm
post #6 of

Hmm..Well then I hope it still tastes as good as before cause that is the mixes I use....I will have to keep my eyes open here in Canada and see if there is a change in packaging or on the box..Thanks!!

KMKakes Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 2:35pm
post #7 of

So this explains alot. The Wal-Mart I frequiently go to stopped carrying the Betty Crocker brand for over 3months. Within the last two weeks, it recently started carrying the french vanilla mix and the milk chocolate. This past weekend I used the french vanilla flavor in the WASC recipe to make one of my cousins a birthday cake and everything was fine. I am curious to know what the result of others will be.

kello Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 2:55pm
post #8 of

Here in Canada, I just bought some Devil's Food last week and there is no change at all in the front or back except the water called for is now 1 1/4cups and the baking time has dropped by a few mins. Definitely not happy about the lesser volume of cake now!
The box is about 1/2" shorter and went from 510g to 432g.

Oh, I just noticed that the new one now says "Devil's Food Flavour" wth?? The old one just said "Devi's Food - Chocolate"

Looking at the ingredients, they are the same, just in a different order now.

Kiddiekakes Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 4:03pm
post #9 of

It really makes me angry that they have made the boxes smaller..sick and tired of companies making the product less for more money...

Herekittykitty Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 4:03pm

Different ingredient order means different ratio's. Ingredients are supposed to be listed from most to least (in the US)

I use mostly doctored box mixes for my cakes b/c of the cost and ease. Makes one want to become a strictly scratch baker so you at least know that the results will always yeild the same.

costumeczar Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herekittykitty

Different ingredient order means different ratio's. Ingredients are supposed to be listed from most to least (in the US)

I use mostly doctored box mixes for my cakes b/c of the cost and ease. Makes one want to become a strictly scratch baker so you at least know that the results will always yeild the same.




that's right, baby! scratch it, scratch it like mad!

BlakesCakes Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 8:19pm

It looks like they've simply cut back the amount of mix by 15%. Frustrating, but not a deal breaker.

You can alter the WASC recipe by 15% or, for simplicity, you can add an additional 15% of another box of mix ( weigh out a mix, divide the # by 6.5, use one portion in your recipe and save the others in zip loc bags inside the box for future use).

Rae

jason_kraft Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 8:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiddiekakes

It really makes me angry that they have made the boxes smaller..sick and tired of companies making the product less for more money...



Costs for ingredients, transportation, and overhead (primarily healthcare costs for employees) have gone up across the board, so they really have no choice. If a business doesn't pass along cost increases to its customers in the form of a higher unit price, it will eventually go out of business.

Herekittykitty Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 9:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herekittykitty

Different ingredient order means different ratio's. Ingredients are supposed to be listed from most to least (in the US)

I use mostly doctored box mixes for my cakes b/c of the cost and ease. Makes one want to become a strictly scratch baker so you at least know that the results will always yeild the same.



that's right, baby! scratch it, scratch it like mad!




Water is NOT supposed to come out your nose! icon_lol.gificon_lol.gif

Herekittykitty Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 9:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiddiekakes

It really makes me angry that they have made the boxes smaller..sick and tired of companies making the product less for more money...


Costs for ingredients, transportation, and overhead (primarily healthcare costs for employees) have gone up across the board, so they really have no choice. If a business doesn't pass along cost increases to its customers in the form of a higher unit price, it will eventually go out of business.




Then raise the price of the item, don't lower the amount recieved. That is a deceptive practice. Yes they have raised the price of the item but they have also done 2 things - decieved the buyer into believing they have made a like purchase and reduced the quality/integrity of thier item in the eyes of the consumer.

I understand we as a society have a hang up about rising prices but when push comes to shove people will eventually pay it. I have seen it time and time again in my industry, I'm absolutely shocked on a regular basis at what the market will bear.

Another $.15 (assuming the mix is $1) is a bit of a pill at first but if you need to make a cake then you'll pay it; as a hobby or small time baker, there aren't a lot of choices when you can't buy in bulk.

jason_kraft Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 9:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herekittykitty

Then raise the price of the item, don't lower the amount recieved.



There are marketing considerations involved in these types of decisions, consumers notice higher prices more than they notice reduced quantities. Manufacturers that increase prices instead of reducing quantity tend to lose out in the end, as consumers buy the "cheaper" brand (with the same unit price) instead.

Related article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/29/business/29shrink.html?pagewanted=all

Herekittykitty Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 10:07pm

I've read that article, nice evasive menuvering on the part of the PR reps.

That said, I understand the company and marketing POV completely, that doesn't mean I agree with it. The fact that consumers don't notice reduced quantities is exactly what makes this a deceptive practice.

I can't tell you how many of my favorite brands I have put back on the shelf when I noticed the price was the same but the amount reduced. I then paid the higher price for a like item to get the amount I previously purchased. I want above board pricing, if I paid $1 for something yesterday and am going to pay $1 for it today, it better be the same as it was last time I purchased. However, when something becomes cost prohibitive, yes - like all consumers I will drop it or switch mfgs.

Goonergirl Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 10:22pm

I noticed the change right away. My "go to" recipe is the WASC. My customers L-O-V-E it. As soon as the boxes got smaller, I noticed that my cakes were not the same. I compensate for the "lost" mix by adding almost 2/3 of a cup out of a different box (weighed it the first time) , but still notice something is off. The chocolate WASC doesn't bake the same AT ALL. Usually drops in the middle now. It's really frustrating. Anyone else have the same thing happen?

kello Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 10:30pm

I'm going to try the doctored mix tomorrow. I sure hope it doesn't drop. I'll let you all know what happens.....

carmijok Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 10:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herekittykitty

Then raise the price of the item, don't lower the amount recieved.


There are marketing considerations involved in these types of decisions, consumers notice higher prices more than they notice reduced quantities. Manufacturers that increase prices instead of reducing quantity tend to lose out in the end, as consumers buy the "cheaper" brand (with the same unit price) instead.




I totally disagree with this statement. I think it all depends on quality and brand loyalty. I can buy cheaper cake mix now, but I CHOOSE to buy Betty Crocker because of the taste and the results I get when I use it. I tend to always buy name brand things even if they are more expensive, because it's something I know and am familiar with--and yes, I CAN tell the differences.

It depends on the product too. I mean black olives are pretty much the same whoever cans them, but things like butter, powdered sugar (cane vs. beet), even cream cheese have definite quality differences. And so do cake mixes--particularly when used as a base for other
recipes!

Sure there are people who will gravitate towards cheap brands if the price goes up, but they obviously are not the people who bake enough to notice any difference...or care for that matter.

Blue Bell Ice Cream still sells half-gallon containers while other ice cream vendors have lessened their quantities. They've always been more expensive. Guess what? People haven't stopped buying Blue Bell ice cream! In fact their company is expanding. Why? Quality and brand loyalty.

Trying to sneak something by the public is what galls me. They raise the price anyway and offer less product. I'm all for company profits, but to me this is stiffing the consumer when IMO they could raise the price a little more and still reap the benefits by having loyal customers continue to purchase their brand.
It tells me the company doesn't have enough faith in its product --or its customers!

carmijok Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 10:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kello



Looking at the ingredients, they are the same, just in a different order now.




The listing of ingredients is done in the order of what it has the most of. So if it's in a different order, the recipe has indeed changed. If say, 'chocolate' was higher up on the list and is now down the list, that means there is less chocolate.

jenncowin Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 10:58pm

I'm curious now. Going to have to watch next time I buy. I am a loyal Betty Crocker user. Yes, I can get Pillsbury cheaper, but I like Betty, so I pay the extra price for it. Is it agrivating that companies charge more for a product that they have shrinked in size, sure is. Prices for everything are going up, now we have to more product to get the same results as before. It's sad.

jason_kraft Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 11:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmijok

I totally disagree with this statement. I think it all depends on quality and brand loyalty. I can buy cheaper cake mix now, but I CHOOSE to buy Betty Crocker because of the taste and the results I get when I use it. I tend to always buy name brand things even if they are more expensive, because it's something I know and am familiar with--and yes, I CAN tell the differences.



I would imagine BC is more worried about DH and Pillsbury than they are about store brands. Betty Crocker isn't really positioned as a premium brand, and I don't think there are enough brand loyal consumers to avoid a serious sales hit if they don't downsize their package but DH and Pillsbury do.

Blue Bell's strategy is a great idea but it requires the right brand positioning to pull off and is still somewhat risky...they probably ran the numbers and decided they have enough brand loyalty (and market share) to make it work.

Remember that these decisions are aimed at the average consumer, many of whom typically shop by shelf price rather than unit price.

carmijok Posted 10 Aug 2011 , 12:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by carmijok

I totally disagree with this statement. I think it all depends on quality and brand loyalty. I can buy cheaper cake mix now, but I CHOOSE to buy Betty Crocker because of the taste and the results I get when I use it. I tend to always buy name brand things even if they are more expensive, because it's something I know and am familiar with--and yes, I CAN tell the differences.



I would imagine BC is more worried about DH and Pillsbury than they are about store brands. Betty Crocker isn't really positioned as a premium brand, and I don't think there are enough brand loyal consumers to avoid a serious sales hit if they don't downsize their package but DH and Pillsbury do.

Blue Bell's strategy is a great idea but it requires the right brand positioning to pull off and is still somewhat risky...they probably ran the numbers and decided they have enough brand loyalty (and market share) to make it work.

Remember that these decisions are aimed at the average consumer, many of whom typically shop by shelf price rather than unit price.




DH and Pillsbury are already cheaper than Betty Crocker...at least here in my stores they are. If they (DH & Pillsbury) downsize and their prices go up (or stay the same), it would seem to me a more savvy business move for Betty Crocker to offer more product, promote it AND position themselves as a premium brand much the way Blue Bell has.

These companies who manufacture food items don't seem to realize that reducing the quantity of their products can affect the quality of recipes. I know they don't really care, but as a consumer it makes me angry to be thought of as someone who only shops shelf prices when I'm working to produce a quality product utilizing THEIR products!

Kiddiekakes Posted 10 Aug 2011 , 1:32am

I understand your reasoning Jason...But when the cost of a cake mix here being BC or DH start at $3.29 regular..not on sale then it makes a person Pissed...I am not a scratch baker so I buy my mixes when they are on sale..The lowest they go is $1.50....so when I now have to buy more boxes to get the same size cake it kinda rips me...LOL

instant-gratificaketion Posted 10 Aug 2011 , 1:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herekittykitty

Different ingredient order means different ratio's. Ingredients are supposed to be listed from most to least (in the US)

I use mostly doctored box mixes for my cakes b/c of the cost and ease. Makes one want to become a strictly scratch baker so you at least know that the results will always yeild the same.



that's right, baby! scratch it, scratch it like mad!




thumbs_up.gif

CiNoRi Posted 10 Aug 2011 , 3:19am

Lets make sure we call that 800 number on the side of the box, They really should hear our feedback and concerns!!

Herekittykitty Posted 10 Aug 2011 , 4:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

I would imagine BC is more worried about DH and Pillsbury than they are about store brands. Betty Crocker isn't really positioned as a premium brand, and I don't think there are enough brand loyal consumers to avoid a serious sales hit if they don't downsize their package but DH and Pillsbury do.




Quote:
Originally Posted by carmijok

I totally disagree with this statement. I think it all depends on quality and brand loyalty. I can buy cheaper cake mix now, but I CHOOSE to buy Betty Crocker because of the taste and the results I get when I use it. I tend to always buy name brand things even if they are more expensive, because it's something I know and am familiar with--and yes, I CAN tell the differences.




I actually consider BC to be the premium of the three main brands. It is in fact more expensive than the other two. Like Carmijok it was my go-to. However, I will now be double checking unit cost, if BC is STILL more expensive with a smaller package, they can say goodbye to my business until the other brands follow suit.

Don't think mfg's haven't taken into consideration the ramifications of package size to recipes. They are well aware that consumers will now have to buy twice the product to achieve the same yield in a recipe. It is all marketing, they have found a way to increase profits AND sales.

jason_kraft Posted 10 Aug 2011 , 4:34pm

To be honest I don't really pay that close attention to cake mix prices since we only bake scratch, so it's quite possible BC is slightly more expensive, but in my mind the more premium brands would be King Arthur Flour or Williams-Sonoma and specialty mixes like Bob's Red Mill.

Herekittykitty Posted 10 Aug 2011 , 4:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

To be honest I don't really pay that close attention to cake mix prices since we only bake scratch, so it's quite possible BC is slightly more expensive, but in my mind the more premium brands would be King Arthur Flour or Williams-Sonoma and specialty mixes like Bob's Red Mill.





icon_lol.gificon_lol.gif Of COURSE they are! But you can't get W-S or KAF at the plain old grocery store around here. And to be honest, I do love a scratch cake and will sometimes make them but the cost/ingredient list is more than my pocketbook and or kitchen can handle on a regular basis.

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