lolly2shoes Posted 7 Aug 2011 , 8:16am
post #1 of

A few months ago our Hi Ratio shortening was discontinued due to a No Trans Fat law in California. We've since had to switch to White Cap shortening. Our buttercream is NOT a crusting buttercream and now that we've changed shortening we have MAJOR moisture problems. The cakes come out sweating like crazy from the fridge and if we have fondant covered cakes, the fondant droops and forms ripples on the side. Is there anyone else out there that has experienced this? I've not noticed any forums on troubles with No Trans Fat shortening. Very desperate, frustrated, and stressed. Need some advice.
Thank you!

33 replies
nanefy Posted 7 Aug 2011 , 9:09am
post #2 of

That law will be a major pain the ass for all the bakeries who use this shortening - I personally, would be in favour of this law because trans fats are bad - however this is literally my own personal opinion and I understand that not everyone feels this way.
The only suggestion I have and it may not be something you are wanting to try, but ganache under fondant is amazing. Also, SMBC & IMBC come out of the fridge very firm, so applying fondant to them would be fairly easy if they come straight out of the fridge.
Sorry, that you are forced to have to change the way you do things, but I'm sure that you'll find a solution with all the expertise on this forum!

LindaF144a Posted 7 Aug 2011 , 2:08pm
post #3 of

What is in White Cap Shortening? I can't believe it is just because of no trans fat. I put fondant over SMBC all the time that has no transfat and have no problems. I think it is something else in the new type of shortening you use.

When I started making cakes and frosting I gravitated towards the recipes that contained no transfat as I am very much in favor of no transfat. I'm glad I did. I had no prior expectations and have not had to reinvent everything. Good luck. I hope you find an answer soon.

ChunkkeeMunkkee Posted 7 Aug 2011 , 2:19pm
post #4 of

I have used 0 trans fat shortening before. You have to keep in mind that the fat was taken out so you need to add it back in. Try using a higher fat liquid. If you use water try milk, if you use milk try half n half or straight heavy cream. I hope this helps some!! Good luck!

leah_s Posted 7 Aug 2011 , 2:22pm
post #5 of

Bunge makes a 0 TF shortening that actually works.

KathysCC Posted 7 Aug 2011 , 2:42pm
post #6 of

I've been adding Dream Whip to my icing and using whole cream or half and half too as my liquid. It has definitely helped but my icing is not what it used to be when my shortening had trans fat. You can order Dream Whip from Amazon.

justsweet Posted 7 Aug 2011 , 2:50pm
post #7 of

I just bought some hi ratio so I will see how it does when I make a batch. I use Sugarshack recipe which has creamer so I will let you know in the next week or so need to p/u powder sugar.

jason_kraft Posted 7 Aug 2011 , 4:48pm
post #8 of

We've been using Sweetex Z high ratio shortening for about a year now, the biggest difference is that the resulting buttercream is more temperature sensitive. Haven't had any sweating problems though.

LindaF144a Posted 7 Aug 2011 , 6:44pm
post #9 of

Adding Dream Whip will not help this person. All transfats have been banned. Adding it in and selling it for retail would be illegal for her to do.

But I am definitely going to check out Bunge.

jason_kraft Posted 7 Aug 2011 , 6:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindaF144a

Adding Dream Whip will not help this person. All transfats have been banned. Adding it in and selling it for retail would be illegal for her to do.



Not in California, Dream Whip contains less than 0.5g of trans fat per serving and is perfectly legal to use in food products for sale.

tamiscakes Posted 7 Aug 2011 , 7:05pm

i too have had problems with the same things.someone told me to add either dream whip or cornstarch, i tried the cornstarch and have gotten good results not the same as it was but workable. tried the dream whip but thought it was too sweet. just my opinion you need to try and see which works best for you.

LindaF144a Posted 7 Aug 2011 , 7:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by LindaF144a

Adding Dream Whip will not help this person. All transfats have been banned. Adding it in and selling it for retail would be illegal for her to do.


Not in California, Dream Whip contains less than 0.5g of trans fat per serving and is perfectly legal to use in food products for sale.




Yeah and I call shenigans on that too. It's that "per serving". Make the serving size small enough on the box to get past the law, but you are probably getting just as much as you used to get.

Let me look at the unopened box in my pantry. A serving size is 1/16 of the envelope which you mix with 1/2 cup milk which makes 2 cups. So take 2 cups of this crap and divide it into 16 servings. I'll bet you it is pretty small. And truly the average person is not going to go through all that to make sure they get the government standard of below .5 gram per serving.

Nor will the average person make sure they are adding enough Dream Whip to ensure they are getting the goverment standard to say they are 0 transfat either.

The best way to make sure you are really getting 0 transfat is to use products that are actually 0 transfat. Instead what we get are those that use that government standard as an excuse to use it without educating the customer that they are actually eating probably way more than the standard set up to get around not having to use it all.

In my shop here in NY I use nothing with transfat in it, even those that state they are below the standard because they have just found a way to lie. I personally will not use that excuse, it is not worth it.

Besides Dream Whip has a whole bunch of god awful chemicals that none of it is real. I prefer real, not chemical. So there is another good reason to not use it.

MimiFix Posted 7 Aug 2011 , 8:19pm

I've successfully used Bunge and Sweetex but can't always source wholesale. So I usually purchase over the counter Crisco.

Consumers are concerned about this issue so Crisco became all non transfat a few years ago.

jason_kraft Posted 7 Aug 2011 , 9:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindaF144a

Yeah and I call shenigans on that too. It's that "per serving". Make the serving size small enough on the box to get past the law, but you are probably getting just as much as you used to get.



Just looking at Sweetex vs. Sweetex Z, the serving size has not changed but the trans fats per serving has gone from 3.5g to under 0.5g. I don't think Dream Whip has ever contained trans fats, but I could be wrong.

There are FDA standards for serving sizes, so manufacturers can't change serving sizes arbitrarily to get around other laws. (Well, they can, but they will be fined when the FDA reviews their label.)

More info on labeling and serving sizes:
http://www.slate.com/id/2240844/

I agree that the TF ban is a joke (if that was your point, I wasn't clear on that), especially since mono- and diglycerides do not count as trans fat even though they eventually turn into trans fat in the body. I would rather people be allowed to make up their own minds about what they consume with better labeling laws, especially when you're talking about an item like cake that people typically don't eat every day.

And the Dream Whip ingredients are basically sugar, oil, thickeners (similar to egg whites or tapioca starch), and emulsifiers (similar to egg yolks or honey). I certainly wouldn't down the whole box in one sitting, but given the small amount typically used in a recipe I don't see it as a big health concern. If you research what the ingredients actually are they become less scary, just because something is artificial doesn't mean it's dangerous.

Quote:
Quote:

In my shop here in NY I use nothing with transfat in it, even those that state they are below the standard because they have just found a way to lie.



How do you confirm your ingredients have zero trans fats, since manufacturers can legally say their products have 0 TF is they are under 0.5g/serving? This point was called out specifically in the guidance document for the CA trans fat law -- food you make is still considered to have zero trans fat even if you use multiple servings of an ingredient listed as 0 TF/serving, since there's no way to know if it's actually 0 or 0.49g/serving.

LindaF144a Posted 7 Aug 2011 , 10:17pm

I have no interest in discussing this with you further just do you can try and prove yourself right yet again. I am done.

bostonterrierlady Posted 8 Aug 2011 , 1:52am

Where do you purchase Sweetex Z? How is it? Is it better than Crisco?

Ashleyssweetdesigns Posted 8 Aug 2011 , 2:36am

Yes it is much better than crisco I know www.globalsugarart.com sells it but there sold out right now.

jason_kraft Posted 8 Aug 2011 , 3:14am

We buy Sweetex Z from BakeMark, they are a distributor but they do offer cash & carry if you can pick up at their warehouse. They sell 50# packages only.

http://www.yourbakemark.com/

justsweet Posted 8 Aug 2011 , 3:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

We buy Sweetex Z from BakeMark, they are a distributor but they do offer cash & carry if you can pick up at their warehouse. They sell 50# packages only.

http://www.yourbakemark.com/




Do you know how much they charge and it is called Sweetex? I buy hi ratio from them but it does not say Sweetex on the box. Thanks

jason_kraft Posted 8 Aug 2011 , 3:24pm

I believe the 50# box is around $80. They sell many different brands of shortening, but they definitely carry Sweetex Z at the Union City, CA warehouse.

justsweet Posted 8 Aug 2011 , 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

I believe the 50# box is around $80. They sell many different brands of shortening, but they definitely carry Sweetex Z at the Union City, CA warehouse.




Thank you. I buy cake icing hi ratio I think it was $46/50lbs and has worked great with icing make. Maybe I will order a small amount from the cake supplies and see it makes a different to the icing. Again thanks.

jason_kraft Posted 8 Aug 2011 , 3:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by justsweet

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

I believe the 50# box is around $80. They sell many different brands of shortening, but they definitely carry Sweetex Z at the Union City, CA warehouse.



Thank you. I buy cake icing hi ratio I think it was $46/50lbs and has worked great with icing make. Maybe I will order a small amount from the cake supplies and see it makes a different to the icing. Again thanks.



Which brand do you buy, and is it 0 trans fat?

justsweet Posted 8 Aug 2011 , 3:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by justsweet

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

I believe the 50# box is around $80. They sell many different brands of shortening, but they definitely carry Sweetex Z at the Union City, CA warehouse.



Thank you. I buy cake icing hi ratio I think it was $46/50lbs and has worked great with icing make. Maybe I will order a small amount from the cake supplies and see it makes a different to the icing. Again thanks.


Which brand do you buy, and is it 0 trans fat?




I will check when I get home tonight and post the information.

justsweet Posted 8 Aug 2011 , 9:31pm

jason_kraft - Talk to Bakemark about the item I buy. Item number 17106 bakesense Premium Hi Ratio Cake icing per the sales rep on the phone --

"this item is not trans fat free but is used by a lot of bakeries to make their icing to cover whole cakes and that serving per cake breaks it down the recommended requirement (confusing more serving per cake I guess to get it). When the bakery sells individual serving sizes then the portion has to be to recommended size as required for trans fat per serving (I think you posted this a few posts back). Again this is what he said and this is how some places are getting around it because they can't stop the customer from cutting a huge slice of cake from a whole cake. As per him most business have found a way to make the retail/individual size smaller to get around the trans fat per individual serving. He did mention they sell a palm oil shortening but it is not liked by bakeries.

Also, got the price on Sweetex Z the new cost he said is $99.48.

Hope this answers your question.

I know with the brand I buy it freezes great no problem making icing after it has been from in the qty. I need.

jason_kraft Posted 8 Aug 2011 , 9:49pm

I don't think the BakeMark rep is correct that you can get around the law that way...if you have a box of shortening on-site that says it contains more than 0.5g of trans fat per serving, you will be cited by the health inspector, no matter how much or how little you use in your products. Of course if you're not selling cakes this wouldn't apply.

And FYI Sweetex Z is essentially palm oil, with mono and diglycerides added.

MimiFix Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

I don't think the BakeMark rep is correct that you can get around the law that way...if you have a box of shortening on-site that says it contains more than 0.5g of trans fat per serving, you will be cited by the health inspector, no matter how much or how little you use in your products. Of course if you're not selling cakes this wouldn't apply.

And FYI Sweetex Z is essentially palm oil, with mono and diglycerides added.




Most health departments, ag & markets, and other regulatory agencies are overworked and understaffed. There is little oversight unless a customer complains. Businesses rely on this lack of oversight to do or say any darn thing they please. And it's not just in the cake world but applies to food businesses in general.

I've worked in corporate R&D kitchens and I've seen firsthand how marketing and sales departments disregard whatever impedes profit. During the fat-free craze, one company couldn't stop products from sticking to the oven bands so they used fat-soaked rags to grease the bands. This made the products absorb fat so the fat-free labels were not correct. That's just one story...

matthewkyrankelly Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 12:32pm

My box of Dreamwhip says 0 trans fat.

But an evil food wizard may have cast a spell over me so I couldn't read the label correctly.

jason_kraft Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MimiFix

Most health departments, ag & markets, and other regulatory agencies are overworked and understaffed. There is little oversight unless a customer complains.



That might be true in some areas, but not Santa Clara County...we are inspected once a year, and on our first inspection after the no trans fat law took effect we were dinged (just a warning, no fine) for having a box of Sweetex with TF. Checking for ingredients with TF is part of the routine inspection now.

ReneeFLL Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 2:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by MimiFix

Most health departments, ag & markets, and other regulatory agencies are overworked and understaffed. There is little oversight unless a customer complains.


That might be true in some areas, but not Santa Clara County...we are inspected once a year, and on our first inspection after the no trans fat law took effect we were dinged (just a warning, no fine) for having a box of Sweetex with TF. Checking for ingredients with TF is part of the routine inspection now.




Do they check invoices or take some of the product off site for testing? If not, then someone could always refill a container that had 0 trans fat with hi ratio.

jason_kraft Posted 9 Aug 2011 , 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReneeFLL

Do they check invoices or take some of the product off site for testing? If not, then someone could always refill a container that had 0 trans fat with hi ratio.



No, they only check the label on the box, I suppose that would be one way to get around the law.

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