Been Trying Scratch Recipes All Week...
Baking By The_Sugar_Fairy Updated 26 Mar 2012 , 4:45am by FleurDeCake
Well... I'm feeling really badly about myself lately (as a baker... like I'm not a 'real' baker or experienced enough because I thought about using pudding in a scratch cake).
I thank all of you that gave encouragement and good advice. I've decided not to post in these forums anymore. It's not worth it to me when I feel like this after.
Oh please don't feel that way..Don't leave the forum or stop posting. I mean, this is a public internet forum/discussion board. Undoubtedly, we will come across comments or post that may upset us, piss us off or make us feel maybe even a little sad or inadequate at times but try not to take it personally. At the end of the day, we don't know each other personally and sooo many things like tone, true meaning and emotion get lost in translation over the internet. I don't think she meant any harm in her feelings against using pudding. Just walk away, let it go and join us again. 
FromScratchSF, thanks so much for the toothpick tip. I always leave my cakes in the oven till the toothpick is dry. No wonder I can't find a cake that's moist enough! I make the Shubox Cafe's Decadently Moist White Cake the other day and, not only did it come out dryish (though delicious!), it turned light brown inside. Do you suppose I overbaked it?
Found this out last summer when trying yellow cake recipes. First couple I tried were quite dry and then came across a recipe where the directions emphasized that if the toothpick came out absolutely clean (not wet but with crumbs) then the cake was already overbaked. Makes sense--just like eggs, cook scrambled eggs until they are dry--they are already overdone.
This seems to be the post that has upset so many
When you add artificial pudding, isn't that defeating the purpose of making a scratch cake? It is a completely artificial product designed like a cake mix... both have so many chemicals added for the purpose of a good result no matter how badly they were made. That is why you can add anything to a cake mix. Adding things to scratch cakes will throw off the balance in most cases unless you know how to adjust it. If you want to learn scratch baking, read these four pages of posts of very experienced bakers and follow what is suggested.
I'm confused by it I went back and reread the OP and I still thought scp's post had jumped from another thread because it (to me at least) has completely missed the point of the original query. Be charitable guys and assume it was an honest mistake not nastiness sugars reply made it clear she was upset by it and saw it as an attack so can we just apologise and move on. The Internet removes tone and expression leaving only the words misunderstandings are going to happen because we all think differently and make assumptions about what is patently obvious (except of course one persons obvious is the next's blind spot).
Sorry I need to get off my hobbyhorse and let this thread get back on track.
Do you suppose I overbaked it?
I'm not familiar with that recipe, but I'd say yes, you probably overbaked it. The "put the toothpick in until it comes out clean" thing is a box cake thing. You can overbake those to practically burnt and they will still be "moist" after you cut off the burnt bits. Let me put it this way... cake is like meat. If you want a nice roast at medium rare, you have to pull it from the oven when the internal temp reaches 125 degrees and let it rest. As it rests it's still cooking... you know you've let it rest enough when the internal temperature reaches at least 130 degrees (nom nom). If you pull it at 130 degrees it'll be medium well by the time the internal temperature rises (not-so nom nom). Well, I apply that same principal to my cakes, only I use a toothpick instead of a meat thermometer. I set my timer 5 minutes before I think I should and check every 5 minutes until I go from wet batter on the toothpick to moist crumbs. You'll be amazed how quickly it'll go from one to the other. Then I pull my cake and re-set my timer for 10 minutes to let my cake "rest". At 10 minutes they get turned out onto the cooling rack and I do the freezer thing. I've never had a cake fall, and I try to do it as quickly as possible so I don't let too much heat out of the oven.
I respect people that can tell their cake is done by smell, but most of the time I'm baking 3-4 flavors right next to the tamale lady, the empanada truck and the garlic hummus guy... so I no longer trust my sense of smell. 
Love empanadas!
Anyway, I pull my cakes out when the toothpick has moist crumbs, but I do still have trouble with the cake falling some in the middle from time to time. Am I pulling it out too early or being too rough with it? I also have cakes fall slightly from testing at times...?
ScratchSF, I found your blog a couple of weeks ago, and it helped renew my passion for baking. Thank you.
Love empanadas!
Anyway, I pull my cakes out when the toothpick has moist crumbs, but I do still have trouble with the cake falling some in the middle from time to time. Am I pulling it out too early or being too rough with it? I also have cakes fall slightly from testing at times...?
ScratchSF, I found your blog a couple of weeks ago, and it helped renew my passion for baking. Thank you.
Further clarification - my scratch cakes do flatten out a bit on top, and sometimes get a little crater in the middle where the dome deflated a bit. I chalk this up to too much batter in the pan. I tend to overfill so I can trim the top crust. I'd rather have a layer that is too tall then too short. A cake that actually "falls" looks like a balloon that is deflated. When you cut off the top do you have a uniform crumb or is it more dough-like in the center? If so, the real question is what recipe you used and did you mix properly to give the cake structure? All my butter cake recipes I have converted to the reverse creaming method. People think it has something to do with moistness but it really is to make sure you can mix the proper structure into your cake without overdeveloping the gluten. Reverse creaming coats the flour with the butter preventing the gluten from developing, thereby building structure without making your cake chewy. Meaning you can mix the heck out of it without fear.
Another question is what temperature are you baking your cakes? I'm a 325 gal no matter what the recipe says. Baking too fast can also be a problem.
Further clarification - my scratch cakes do flatten out a bit on top, and . Reverse creaming coats the flour with the butter preventing the gluten from developing, thereby building structure without making your cake chewy. Meaning you can mix the heck out of it without fear.
I know Rose testifies to this as well however I have found it is possible to overmix via the reverse creaming method--and it was not that hard to do. That is I did not mix it for 10 minutes or forget about the batter.
I guess the little crater in the top is what I'm referring to as slightly falling. I don't have complete deflating, just the little golf ball size dip in the middle, especially in square pans. I use the reverse creaming method too, and normally cook at 325 (unless it's cupcakes - those I crank up to 375). I guess I can stop worrying about the slight falling? It doesn't seem to effect the taste; it just doesn't look as pretty coming out of the oven as I'd like.
I loved the cake I made using the reversed creaming method.
Do you think I can take any of my recipes and keep the amounts and ingredients, just switch from the typical creaming of butter and sugar to the reversed creaming?
That would be an interesting experiment. Has anyone tried that with SW's classic yellow cake? (made it with the reversed creaming method?)
I guess the little crater in the top is what I'm referring to as slightly falling. I don't have complete deflating, just the little golf ball size dip in the middle, especially in square pans. I use the reverse creaming method too, and normally cook at 325 (unless it's cupcakes - those I crank up to 375). I guess I can stop worrying about the slight falling? It doesn't seem to effect the taste; it just doesn't look as pretty coming out of the oven as I'd like.
As long as you level it off and the cake is moist and perfect, then you are doing it right!
FromScratchSF, thanks so much for the toothpick tip. I always leave my cakes in the oven till the toothpick is dry. No wonder I can't find a cake that's moist enough! ?
OK.. maybe this is my problem, too. FromScratchSF - do you happen to have picture of what "moist crumbs" look like on a toothpick? and if so, could you post it?
Okay, y'all, I know I've read this somewhere, but I've forgotten: what is reverse creaming? Is it creaming the butter with the flour at the beginning instead of with the butter? I'll do anything to get better cakes, so I'd like to try it.
And thanks for this wealth of information, my CC friends - I wouldn't be anywhere without all of you!
FromScratchSF, thanks so much for the toothpick tip. I always leave my cakes in the oven till the toothpick is dry. No wonder I can't find a cake that's moist enough! ?
OK.. maybe this is my problem, too. FromScratchSF - do you happen to have picture of what "moist crumbs" look like on a toothpick? and if so, could you post it?
I'm making a chocolate cake tonight so I'll try and snap some crappy phone pics
Hi it's me again, the original poster... well today I tried Toba Garrett's recipe again (it's a pretty basic recipe - using buttermilk, and lots of creaming of the butter at the beginning), then I added one cup of prepared J-ELLO pudding (at the same time as the buttermilk). For some reason, the pudding makes it so the cake does not rise as well. It should have come out as a 2" cake, but it was 1" instead. I was VERY pleased with the flavour of the cake (no eggy taste - but then I let it cool for a couple hours before tasting it so maybe that's why). The density of the cake was a bit much though I think (a really 'tight' crumb, if that makes sense and really heavy). Sooooo, tomorrow, I'm going to try this recipe AGAIN, but with only a 1/2 cup of prepared pudding (and vanilla pudding instead - as I accidentally used lemon pudding today by mistake - so maybe that's why the flavour was so good, lol). I'll let you all know how it goes... so back to the drawing board - I do feel like I'm making progress though.
The thing about adding a box of pudding mix to a scratch cake has been kicked around a lot on this forum. And I could be wrong because I personally have never done it, but possibly you shouldn't be making the pudding before you put in the batter. Instead maybe you should mix it in unprepared with the dry and use it that way. I don't think I have ever read where it was mixed into pudding first. If the cake with the prepared pudding did not work, try it with the pudding mix dry and see what results you get.
Also if you are trying to use this idea you could do a search of the forums of people who say they do this to a scratch cake and then PM and ask if they prepare the pudding first.
I do raise chickens and they aren't allowed in the garden because they scratch the h*ll out of it.
Ba-dam-bam
Tami 
.....................sometimes I just can't help myself.........................
FromScratchSF, thanks so much for the toothpick tip. I always leave my cakes in the oven till the toothpick is dry. No wonder I can't find a cake that's moist enough! ?
OK.. maybe this is my problem, too. FromScratchSF - do you happen to have picture of what "moist crumbs" look like on a toothpick? and if so, could you post it?
While a picture will help--really you are looking for a few crumbs that come out with the toothpick. If the toothpick still has batter on it, it is not done. If it looks gooey it is not done. You should see a few smallish crumbs that look moist and tender.
when you add pudding to a recipe, you add a box of powder into the dry ingredients. you make no other changes.
when you add pudding to a recipe, you add a box of powder into the dry ingredients. you make no other changes.
Ooh have you actually done it? Does it do anything to the texture/moistness of the cake or does it just add flavor?
I'm not into the pudding thing but I am very curious of the results.
Jen
it to me seems to make it denser yet moist... i use it just to add flavor tio some cakes. like my banana cake ( i add fresh banana too) but for my chocolate cake recipe I add it when i need to to be more stable. its such a moist cake its perfect for normal rounds but if i need to alter it in any way (like topsy turvey) i add the pudding mix so it doesnt just fall apart.
so in my white cake i use it just for flavor & for chocolate for texture. I dont add it to anything for moistness bc my cakes are perfect w/o to why bother!
it to me seems to make it denser yet moist... i use it just to add flavor tio some cakes. like my banana cake ( i add fresh banana too) but for my chocolate cake recipe I add it when i need to to be more stable. its such a moist cake its perfect for normal rounds but if i need to alter it in any way (like topsy turvey) i add the pudding mix so it doesnt just fall apart.
so in my white cake i use it just for flavor & for chocolate for texture. I dont add it to anything for moistness bc my cakes are perfect w/o to why bother!
Interesting! Well OP, there you go.
J
And no go on the picture, they came out way too blurry. Sorry,
jen
I got this recipe from Roland Winbeckler (he used it on a cake competition show) I have made it a few times, and it is very good..
French Vanilla Sour Cream Cake
2 1/2 cups sifted flour
1 tsp salt
1 1/2 cups sugar
1 Tbsp + 1 tsp baking powder
1/4 cup butter, softened
1/3 cup vegetable oil
3 whole eggs, room temperature
1/2 cup lukewarm water
1 small pkg dry instant vanilla pudding mix
1 cup sour cream
1 tsp vanilla
Preheat oven to 325; combine by hand flour, salt, sugar and baking powder in mixer bowl. Add remaining ingredients and mix with mixer on low. Increase speed to medium and mix for 2 minutes until wello blended. Bakes 2 - 8" rounds/app 40 min
Note: I used the pudding mix with sugar, but I think you could use sugar free and it would be fine..
Jen/others,
I had never combined a scratch recipe with a boxed pudding mix before, but I've made this cake a couple of times and OH EM GEE. It's awesome! Pound cake like texture, tight crumb, ZERO air bubbles or pockets, and sticks to your mouth moist.
http://www.food.com/recipe/extra-moist-lemon-sour-cream-and-vanilla-pound-cake-94496
Do you add sugar free pudding mix or regular? In the doctored mixes I've been told that it's too much of a sugar unbalance using the regular.
i use regular
I received so many really nice private messages telling me not to give up, so I've decided to come back and just ignore any negativity. There are definately some wonderful people on here!
Anyway, I've decided to give up on the pudding idea as I've had no success with it. But... I was at the library today and found a book called 'BakeWise - The Hows and Whys of Successful Baking'. I've read through a lot of it already. Shirley Corriher, the author, was on a quest to find a moist wonderful cake... in her quest she found that the answer was whipping cream (heavy cream). So this week I'm going to try her recipe called 'Magnificent Moist Golden Cake' that uses heavy cream and the 'Dissolved-Sugar Method'. I'll let you all know how it goes. I love this website, I have learned so so much from it. I wouldn't be where I am today without it! Thank you all for your advice! Together, we will find an awesome scratch cake recipe!!!
I typically make all of my cakes from scratch. That doesn't mean I wont try different things. As a kid my favorite cake came once a year at Thanksgiving. It was a pistachio cake...pudding in the mix, pudding in the frosting. My Aunt, who makes the cake, always says..."If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
I found a new recipe the other day and thought I'd try it. I love to play in the kitchen and experiment. I like to know my options. This recipe is very, very moist.
It calls for a box mix...which I replaced with-
2.5 c cake flour (softasilk)
1 2/3 c sugar
1 Tbsp + 1/2 tsp baking powder
1 tsp salt
Then I followed the rest of the recipe for-
Pistachio-Cardamom-Caramel Cake
http://www.designmeacake.com/id46.html
replaced * 1 box of white cake mix (I used DH)
* 1 cup of cake flour
* 1/2 cup of white granulated sugar
* 2 teaspoons baking power
* 1 envelope dry pistachio pudding mix
* 1 teaspoon of salt (*If using salted pistachios omit salt).
* 1 teaspoon of grind cardamom.
*Sift dry ingredients twice and set aside.
* 1 cup of sour cream
* 1 stick of butter (at room temp.)
* 1/4 cup of veg. oil
* 1/3 cup of cream cheese at room temp.
* 1/4 cup of brown sugar
*Cream these ingredients in the mixer for about 3 mins. or until completely blended together.
* 4 large eggs
* 1 tablespoon vanilla extract
* Lorann pistachio oil flavor
*Add these ingredients to mixer until blended with the other ingredients.
* 1/2 cup of vanilla caramel coffee creamer
* 1/2 cup of caramel ice cream topping
* 3/4 cup of buttermilk
I made my own caramel coffee creamer with half-n-half which I mixed with home made Dulce de Leche and used that to also replace the caramel ice cream topping. I didn't have Lorann pistachio oil...I was thinking the oil would impart more flavor than the pudding mix. And I'm not convinced the pudding mix actually adds any moisture. I can leave it out next time and know for sure.
It was a little sweet so I wondered if I could reduce the sugar and still retain the moistness. Maybe it was just too salty. 2 tsp. is a lot. It's baked at a low temperature, similar to mud cakes...maybe this is also an important factor.
I just found this article and found it helpful.
For Great Cakes, Get the Ratios Right
http://www.finecooking.com/articles/ratios-for-great-cakes.aspx
Anyway...it's a moist cake...
Sugar_Fairy, I'm so glad to see your post! Welcome home! Boy would I love to get my hands on that book by Shirley Corriher. I looked at the article by her that jolle100 posted the link to and it's fascinating, as is the cake recipe she posted - one more to try out in our quest for the perfect cake!
I received so many really nice private messages telling me not to give up, so I've decided to come back and just ignore any negativity. There are definately some wonderful people on here!
Anyway, I've decided to give up on the pudding idea as I've had no success with it. But... I was at the library today and found a book called 'BakeWise - The Hows and Whys of Successful Baking'. I've read through a lot of it already. Shirley Corriher, the author, was on a quest to find a moist wonderful cake... in her quest she found that the answer was whipping cream (heavy cream). So this week I'm going to try her recipe called 'Magnificent Moist Golden Cake' that uses heavy cream and the 'Dissolved-Sugar Method'. I'll let you all know how it goes. I love this website, I have learned so so much from it. I wouldn't be where I am today without it! Thank you all for your advice! Together, we will find an awesome scratch cake recipe!!!
That cake is a good cake. Though I noticed no difference using whipping cream. But I've been making scratch for such a long time that I no longer get dry. Definitely post here when you make it. Others would probably loved to hear your results.
I can't wait to make this cake, hopefully I'll have the time tomorrow. This book is AMAZING! The information in it is incredible! If this cake works out, I'm definately buying the book. I've actually been taking notes...
What I've learned so far: to have a successful cake:
The weight of the sugar should be equal to (or greater than) the weight of the flour.
The weight of the eggs should be greater than the weight of the fat.
The weight of the liquid (including eggs) should be equal (or greater than the weight of the sugar.
It gets quite complex and confusing though because this is weight, not measurement (she gives the weights of all ingredients though, ex. one cup of granulated white sugar is 7 oz). Also you have to take into account that butter is 81% fat, not 100% fat. So, all of you that have said "Baking is a science" are so correct! This is like a math class, but I'm actually finding it so interesting! But... Shirley has shown that the rules can be broken sometimes.
I'll definately let you all know how the recipe turns out!
Quote by @%username% on %date%
%body%