The Knot...seriously?

Decorating By cakedoff Updated 10 Jun 2011 , 5:18pm by Melvira

cakedoff Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 1:42am
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41 replies
bobwonderbuns Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 2:03am
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Actually I don't think that is poor judgement on the reporter's part -- I often tell my brides to order on the 60% minimum rule -- that if you invite 100 people, 60% of them will show. What I've found is they usually order on the 75% rule. That way they often get a slightly smaller cake but more elaborate decoration. There are usually dessert tables or some other goodies there too because (~gasp~) not everyone likes cake~! icon_eek.gif

dsilvest Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 2:05am
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I actually agree with the author. I have been to too many weddings where the cake was left because the guests were too full from their dinner and dessert. The cake was not served until later in the evening. This does not happen in all areas of the country. It is something to consider if you live in an area where the cake is routinely left uneaten. The author's suggestion does not fit every bride. A bride needs to look at the customs of her particular area before deciding to reduce the number of servings. l

platinumlady Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 2:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobwonderbuns

Actually I don't think that is poor judgement on the reporter's part -- I often tell my brides to order on the 60% minimum rule -- that if you invite 100 people, 60% of them will show. What I've found is they usually order on the 75% rule. That way they often get a slightly smaller cake but more elaborate decoration. There are usually dessert tables or some other goodies there too because (~gasp~) not everyone likes cake~! icon_eek.gif





I so agree with you on this.

Kitagrl Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 2:39am
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When my brides ask about less cake...I usually tell them that they can order whatever they like...but I will NEVER actually tell them to order less cake...because then, if for some reason, all their guests want cake, then it will be MY fault for encouraging her to skimp on the cake and then upsetting her guests. So I tell her that, while she is free to order however many servings she wants...I will not personally tell her to order less than her guests by any more than about 10-15 servings.

And what some others pointed out...it is true that if someone does NOT get cake...likely, the cake decorator will be blamed...not the bride.

Melvira Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 2:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobwonderbuns

There are usually dessert tables or some other goodies there too because (~gasp~) not everyone likes cake~! icon_eek.gif




It's like I don't even KNOW you anymore! icon_eek.gif Hahaha!!

ajwonka Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 2:41am
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I recommend ordering for 70% of the guests inviting. The way the article reads, though, it's almost as if they are recommending ordering for 50% of the guests who have confirmed. I think that's risky. . . Just my opinion (even if i'm not the baker!)

cakedoff Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 2:47am
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Sure, it would depend on where you are and the local "likes". Personally I feel (as do most professional chefs) that too many heavy appetizers are usually served, where as a couple of cocktails or fresh juices and maybe a LIGHT snack whet the appetite better than a "meal" of heavy hors 'dourves (sp) before the meal. A wedding cake in most places is a traditional 'event' and the cutting ceremony a beautiful pictorial remembrance of the wedding. Mostly, I think it was a poor "opinion" the reporter stated, by singling out, for the most part, the cake supplier. I guess I overlooked them telling the brides to cut out a portion of the buffet (just cut the guest list), not having flowers or centerpieces or to avoid paying for music, a new gown, or tuxedo fees. As far as the 60% rule goes, in my experience, a final count is generally known (within a margin of error) well before the cakes are baked.

Kitagrl Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 2:52am
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Everybody has personal priorities and where they want to cut costs...some people DO want to cut costs with the cake, but I don't think that should be "professional advice" to do so.

I personally probably would not hire a wedding planner but would do everything myself. However, I would never publicly give advice to couples to skip the wedding planner! Number one, its not really fair to the planners (the good ones, I'll say that) and number two, some couples might WANT or even NEED a planner.

Just because I would not want a planner doesn't mean they aren't needed...and just because somebody thinks cake isn't important doesn't mean its not...all wedding vendors are there for a reason and its really unfair to single out one or two as a way to cut costs. I think every couple is smart enough to figure out what their priorities are, and where THEY want to cut costs.

bobwonderbuns Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 2:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvira

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobwonderbuns

There are usually dessert tables or some other goodies there too because (~gasp~) not everyone likes cake~! icon_eek.gif



It's like I don't even KNOW you anymore! icon_eek.gif Hahaha!!




icon_rolleyes.gificon_lol.gif

Melvira Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 3:20am
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Kitagrl, fantastic example! I really do feel a cake is an important part of a wedding in my area, but I felt that long before I actually decorated cakes. It's just what I grew up with.

Honestly, it really seems like the cake decorator is always the target of the cost cutting suggestions. I have to wonder what we ever did to hack off all these authors.

ramie7224 Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 3:34am
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I think region is definitely a factor....I know in the South groom's cakes are more traditional than in other areas, so personally I considered the number of servings for each cake and ordered a smaller wedding cake than I would have if we hadn't had the groom's. I still brought home almost half the bottom tier even though we ordered cake for 75 and had just over 100 guests. It's a guessing game, but I'd rather guess on the side of more cake than not enough!

KakeMistress Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 3:37am
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it goes along with the whole "its just cake" mentality....

ConfectionsCC Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 3:40am
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Here is my two cents about this article and MY opinion. The cake for me as both a bride (well 6 years ago, but we are still on our honeymoon!) and now, as the cake lady....cutting the cake is tradition and you have MANY photos, not just from your photographer, but from your guests as well during the cake cutting. Its a chance for the bride and groom to do something together during
the reception, and its so sweet when one is funny and smushes it into the other's face!! ANYWAYS Keep the cake at least big enough that photo's look good. I did not read one part of that article about the table centerpieces or floral arrangements?? Sorry, but I have NEVER seen a photo of the bride and groom picking flowers from their floral arrangement from the guest's tables...tone down the over the top stuff! Take it back to tradition!

Cindy619 Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 3:56am
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I think there is a big difference between using half the total number of people you are inviting for the initial numbers vs. only ordering enough cake for half of the guests that said they were coming. I personally traveled out of state to go to a wedding a few years back and they ran out of cake for at least 1/3 of the guests and I was one of them! I'm still bitter to this day about not receiving a slice of the cake. icon_cry.gif

You wouldn't tell your guests only the first 50% will actually receive drinks at the bar or that 50% won't be receiving dinner, so why would it be okay to only order 50% of the cake needed?

labmom Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 4:57am
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I know that you never have all the guests that are invited but it also depends on the cake that the customer orders. If a bride orders a cake with more than one flavor I have had tables bring a plate to the cake table and get several slices of each so they could try all the flavors. I also have cake boxes or bags that we use for the cake when we cut it so the guests that are full can take there cake home with them or perhaps for the kids who stayed home.
I also bring cake boxes so that if a tier is not cut they can have a way to take the extra cake home. Most have guests that are visiting or staying and they use the extra cake to serve there guests. I even had one that used one leftover uncut tier as a birthday cake the day after the wedding.
there are many things that need to be considered when they order a cake but I always have the bride or who ever is buying the cake sign a release that i was ask to provide only this certain amount of cake so they can't come back and say that I didn't give them enough cake for there guests.

Candice56 Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 5:40am
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If your going to half a cake do the wedding guests bring half a gift? You plan for each guest if "Aunt Mary" is going to cut the cake she may be more generous than she should be with the slices and it would not hurt to have a few other thing for dessert also like cookies.
My wedding in the early 70's I invited 200 we had a few more as some thought it approriate to bring a guest also, bad taste but it does happen and you sure don't want t be short let alone short because you decided to cheap out on the cake and save a few bucks, it's called budget! icon_rolleyes.gif [/b]

scp1127 Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 6:00am
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I ge the bide all scenarios... 65% eat the cake, what size servings, and the fact that my cakes are scratch artisan cakes. People will eat more if the cake is great. Then I ask her to consider her family and friends... big or little sweets eaters. I still use the Wilton chart to price, but the bride decides the final size. It works out and they appreciate becoming aware of the factors.

hollyml Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 10:12am
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Is it really that common for to have "desserts other than the traditional wedding cake" at weddings? I have been to a lot of weddings in my life and I have NEVER been served any dessert other than cake!

I've been to one wedding that had cupcakes, and I've been to one that had a groom's cake in addition to the wedding cake. Other than that...wedding cake is the only dessert, and the only dessert is wedding cake. The cake is called "traditional" for a reason!

Anyway ITA with Kitagrl, when you plan a wedding you have to decide where to scrimp and where to splash out. Everyone has different priorities for their budget, as well as different size budgets! Just depends what's most important to the particular couple. It's weird for an article like that to single out the cake as the thing to scrimp on.

Holly

cookiemama2 Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 10:41am
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I think its important to know how its being served.
If they are serving you at the table you need to have as many servings as there are guests.

My hubby doesn't eat alot of cake but he knows if he doesn't take his piece , for me, I'll push him off his chair!

DSmo Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 10:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollyml

Is it really that common for to have "desserts other than the traditional wedding cake" at weddings? I have been to a lot of weddings in my life and I have NEVER been served any dessert other than cake!



I think this is becoming more and more common. I have never been to a wedding that served other deserts, but I have friends who have. And a lot of wedding planning articles talk about it these days. I think the linked article is only suggesting halfing the cake when there ARE other desserts being served, not as a rule in general.

AmysCakesNCandies Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 12:06pm
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Here is the biggest problem with this advise in my opinion- If the caterer is erving the cake, they will not have enough to serve each guest. Regardless of whether they eat it or not, most guests do not tell the server if they don't want it. So what about those unlucky guests at the back tables that never get served cake? Now this advice might work if the cake is self serve, but even then its a risk. I always ask my brides about how the cake will be served and if there are other desserts before recommending a cake size.

In my opionion this is written by spomeone who knows more about money than weddings. And has probably never worked a wedding in thier life!

When I was catering I oonce catered a wedding where the bride & groom had a cash bar through the hall and didn't want tio pay me to supply water & coffee, against my advice. They didn't want to pay for the glass & chinaental. So they saved a few hundred dollars and pissed off ALL thier guests! Sometimes being cheap is just that.... CHEAP!

cakegirl1973 Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 12:47pm
post #23 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSmo

Quote:
Originally Posted by hollyml

Is it really that common for to have "desserts other than the traditional wedding cake" at weddings? I have been to a lot of weddings in my life and I have NEVER been served any dessert other than cake!


I think this is becoming more and more common. I have never been to a wedding that served other deserts, but I have friends who have. And a lot of wedding planning articles talk about it these days. I think the linked article is only suggesting halfing the cake when there ARE other desserts being served, not as a rule in general.




In my area, I have seen several weddings where the meal was served buffet style and desserts are offered in the buffet. The desserts are included in the "price per head", so the couple does not pay extra for them. Also, if the couple did not want desserts included in the buffet, the venues do NOT lower the price per head. IMO, even if desserts are offered, there needs to be enough cake for each guest to have a slice. To do otherwise is just plain tacky!

MamaDear Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 12:58pm
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You know if this reporter actually offered this no so wonderful advice, then tips on how to break it to some of the guests that they wouldnt be getting any cake since we ran out should have been included.

My opinion is if you are looking at less cake because you are offering other desserts then just don't offer the other desserts (although sometimes I do encourage diabetic families to have some sort of fruit or carved watermelon). Can't remember a time I have ever had a discussion about a wedding that started off like this "Well the little piece of wedding cake we got was good but boy what I remember about that wedding was the extra hor derves and offerings of dessert". Usually in the years after a wedding we talk about what the bride looked like=dress, how many attendants, the photos, and the CAKE unless someone got so drunk at the reception that they had that once in a lifetime experience that folks talked about for years!

Weddings now-a-days have that "Gotta have the MOST and the BIGGEST" vibe going for them and most brides want a Rolls Royce wedding on a Hyundai budget. Both cars are good but a Rolls will get you talked about!!!

cakegirl1973 Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 1:03pm
post #25 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSmo

Quote:
Originally Posted by hollyml

Is it really that common for to have "desserts other than the traditional wedding cake" at weddings? I have been to a lot of weddings in my life and I have NEVER been served any dessert other than cake!


I think this is becoming more and more common. I have never been to a wedding that served other deserts, but I have friends who have. And a lot of wedding planning articles talk about it these days. I think the linked article is only suggesting halfing the cake when there ARE other desserts being served, not as a rule in general.




In my area, I have seen several weddings where the meal was served buffet style and desserts are offered in the buffet. The desserts are included in the "price per head", so the couple does not pay extra for them. Also, if the couple did not want desserts included in the buffet, the venues do NOT lower the price per head. IMO, even if desserts are offered, there needs to be enough cake for each guest to have a slice. To do otherwise is just plain tacky!

LindaF144a Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 1:13pm
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I have several thoughts on this:

1. The Knot - I am sure they sit in meetings and brand storm ideas for articles like these. They have advertisers who big money to keep the magazine running. Those advertisers sell.....Dresses, honeymoons, etc.....everything EXCEPT for the cake. No revenue from any bakers means they can tell brides to cut corners in places where they won't piss off a major advertiser and not get that revenue. Have you ever seen an article where they tell you to skimp on the cost of the wedding dress that you wear once?

Actually this article seems to attack just the cake. Tip 1- stay on budget. Tip 2 - Order half a cake, Tip 3 - Here is how to give your money to the couple. There are a ton of other ways they can save money. Is the CNN article a condensed version of something else?

2. The last wedding I went to, where I happened to make the cake, everybody waited around for the cake. I kept waiting for the crowd to thin and it didn't. Once we started cutting the cake, instead of waiting at their seats to be served, everybody, and I mean everybody, got up and formed a circle around the cake table. When all was said and done we had about 20 slices left over. And the bride and groom ordered a 6,8,10 tier and said they would have about 60 guests (it was actually more like 100 guests. They must have people show up who did not RSVP). I ended up making a 6,9,12 tier because those were the pans I had in my house (it was a gift, friends of the family thing). If I had made the cake the size they wanted, we would have run out of cake. I was cutting, so I know the pieces were not cut too large. In fact I cut smaller because the crowd looked so big. The bride told me that she had a lot of people tell her they wanted to try the cake because it looked so pretty they had to have a slice to see how it tasted. And we had two flavors, there were quite a few guest who requested a slice of each. The bride and I kept looking at each other in a panic. What were supposed to say - no you can't have it? So if the cake looks like it came form Walmart, maybe guests are not so enthusiastic about getting a piece. But a show case cake...everybody has to try it.

3. My daughter when she talks about her wedding down the road, several years from now, it is all about the dress and the cake. These are the two most photographed things at a wedding. At the wedding I mentioned in number 2 people took pictures of the cake before it was cut. I had my back to the cake as I sat. It was husband that made me turn and look at the mob of people in the corner taking a photo of the cake. So yeah, the cake is important.

4. I agree with the previous OP who said that it sounded like the article is saying ordering half for the number of confirmed, when it should be that you should order about 75% of the invitation list. But that is exactly what the bride did at the wedding I attended. Had I not went with bigger pans....disaster. Not everybody will be able to make it to a wedding. Then again, there are those that just love cake. They will order more than they need hoping to have extra cake for the next day.

5. I personally think this is one of those places where a bride may not cut down on the number of slices, but will instead compromise on the design instead. There are several ways to decorate a cake to make it elegantly, tastefully done and still remain within budget.

6. All in all a wrong article. I am sure there are a lot of us who will have to do some re-educating in the near future.

tracycakes Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 1:32pm
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When I meet with my brides, we spend considerable time talking about how much cake. We consider a number of factors, including: the number of flavors they want, the type of food they are having, other sweets that will be there, if there will be alcohol, time of day, if guests are nearby or will travel long distances, and any other thing that might affect the number of guests. If they are a pastor at a church, the number will be higher. I want my brides to have the amount of cake they need/want, but not so much that they have to throw cake away. We start with the number of people being invited, factor in 60 -70% then go from there.

Kitagrl Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 1:44pm
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Linda, that could be very true about Knot revenue...and frankly, cake-making is NOT a lucrative business unless you have been lucky enough to be on tv and be able to raise your prices that way.

I know for me, I advertised on the Knot for 6 months and it was a miserable waste of valuable money, as I don't have a lot to work with. What profit I make goes to my family to help raise our boys and pay our bills.

I know some bakeries have enough revenue to advertise, but more often than not, the bakeries have a lesser profit margin than other vendors. So hopefully the Knot is not singling them out for this reason...I realize that people think cakes are overpriced and that we make huge profits but at the end of the year, my numbers show around a 50% profit overall, for all those hours of work, taking everything into consideration. I don't think that's as huge as everyone thinks....

Melvira Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 1:46pm
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I've been in that situation where the masses descend on you when they see you touch the cake!! I offered cutting and serving services for a small fee, and when I do it, people do not politely wait to be called by table to come get cake!! They stampede like buffalos, forks in hand. It may be a midwest thing, but cake is the reason for the season around here! Hehe.

So, how much advertising do we have to do to break even here? We should all start posting articles that are pro-cake. I mean... the guests look at the decorations and say, "Oh, how pretty." Then it has outlived its usefullness. I feel cake is just as important, being a consumable and all.

cakesmith_duane Posted 10 Jun 2011 , 2:03pm
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Twenty years ago when I got married, I didn't do cake. We found a sweet woman that was doing catering out of her home and she kind of threw in the cake. It was very beautiful, but relatively small. Anyway, it seems like everytime I pick up one of these magazines - "How to cut budget - Cake." That should be the title of every article. With all the shows about weddings, etc - I think there should be more emphasis on the cake. It is as traditional as the dress. Not that I create traditional cakes, but when "so called" people of authority (and that's how bride-to-be's see these magazines) tell them to cut the cake cost, chances are they will start cutting cake out - and that hurts ALL of us. That stinks!

What..do we have to get cake lobbyists in DC - push the cake, push the cake, push the cake.....hahaha. In ref to advertising - word of mouth is still the best form of advertising. Of course, I do some commercials every now and again. take care - Cakesmith

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