Frosting Not Adhering

Decorating By Rhonlynn Updated 6 Jun 2011 , 12:15pm by Rhonlynn

Rhonlynn Posted 5 Jun 2011 , 2:51am
post #1 of 28

I made my Elvis cake, and it turned out cute. But I was so frustrated while frosting it. No matter what I did, I couldn't get the icing to adhere to the cake.it was nuts! The icing just fell off of it. Why did it do that?

Some of it I had froze, but found I needed another layer, so I made that layer yesterday. It was 2 8 x 3, torted, and filled. The pictures are in my photos. The cake turned out good, but it too me forever to frost the blue. I didn't think I needed to crumb coat it, cause there weren't any excess crumbs.


Here is the recipe I use for buttercream:

http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-713347-.html

I've made my class cake, and another cake with this recipe, and I love it.

27 replies
sweettreat101 Posted 5 Jun 2011 , 3:00am
post #2 of 28

Did you use Crisco? I won't use Crisco anymore I only use Hi ratio. When Crisco changed it was horrible. My frosting was never the same. I will never go back to Crisco.

macie2011 Posted 5 Jun 2011 , 3:01am
post #3 of 28

Are you sure your icing was thick enough?

Rhonlynn Posted 5 Jun 2011 , 3:11am
post #4 of 28

I did thin it down only by a bit of cream. It was too thick to even frost. I did use Crisco. It is horrible.


At first I had issues with Pam on my pans, so now i refuse to even use it for anything. Pam is horrible, and I'm starting to learn about Crisco. If it takes high ratio shortening, then that is what I will use.I'll go to a cake shop before I make another one. I do hobby baking, but my friends saw the Elvis cake, and want me to make them a cake. I couldn't get it smooth on the cake.

I suppose cake shops sell high ratio shortening? Is that a higher fat content?

indydebi Posted 5 Jun 2011 , 4:01pm
post #5 of 28

I use nothing but crisco and refuse to use anything else. But it works with my icing recipe and I understand the zero trans fat doesn't work with all recipes. (I never even knew crisco had made a change until I read all of the CC'ers comments complaining about the change in their icing icon_eek.gif )

http://cakecentral.com/recipes/6992/indydebis-crisco-based-buttercream-icing

Did the icing act like it was too thick and wouldnt' stay on the cake to start with? Or was it too 'slick' and was it going on ok, but just not staying in place?

Whenever I see a thread about an icing problem like this, 9.5 times out of 10 I see that the recipe is a 1:1 ratio of cups of fat to lbs of sugar. If you used the recipe on the above thread, which is 2 cups fat to 2 lbs sugar, then that would be my guess. Many use the 1:1 ratio with no problem, so I'm going to guess things like recipe variation, humidity, skill, etc., may play a part. But I swear, it's almost a sure bet when I see this type of problem.

In my experience (and again .... experience differs from caker to caker .....) that much fat pretty much causes the icing to slide right off the cake. Lots of fat = lots of "slickery" icing = wont' stay on the cake.

Again, there can be various factors. This is just my guess as one to consider. icon_smile.gif

Rhonlynn Posted 5 Jun 2011 , 5:38pm
post #6 of 28

I'll try that recipe then. The icing seemed to stand there, and when I tried to apply it to the cake, it wouldn't stick to the cake. I figured it had to be the fat per sugar ratio. I want to use Crisco, people don't like that much fat content in their icing, to include butter and high ratio shortening..

I'll try this one, the next time I bake a cake. Thankyou.

Rhonlynn Posted 5 Jun 2011 , 5:39pm
post #7 of 28

Skill, no doubt, since this was my first cake beyond my class cake. It really plays a difference in everything.I just got Sugarshack's DVD, and I've not watched it yet.


I'm learning alot about Crisco and shortening.

TexasSugar Posted 5 Jun 2011 , 5:59pm
post #8 of 28

4 Tables spoons of liquid in that recipes makes thick/stiff icing. Great for roses, not for icing a cake.

My recipe is pretty much like that. For thin icing you really need more like a 1/2 of a cup of liquid. I've also found that in the times I use whipping cream I actually end up needing more.

If you icing is holding it's shape really well and not sticking, it's too think.

Also if you cake is really, really moist on the outside that can cause problems as well.

TexasSugar Posted 5 Jun 2011 , 6:01pm
post #9 of 28

Let me add I do use all crisco. 2 cups to 2 lbs powder sugar.

bobwonderbuns Posted 5 Jun 2011 , 6:32pm
post #10 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhonlynn

I made my Elvis cake, and it turned out cute. But I was so frustrated while frosting it. No matter what I did, I couldn't get the icing to adhere to the cake.it was nuts! The icing just fell off of it. Why did it do that?

Some of it I had froze, but found I needed another layer, so I made that layer yesterday. It was 2 8 x 3, torted, and filled. The pictures are in my photos. The cake turned out good, but it too me forever to frost the blue. I didn't think I needed to crumb coat it, cause there weren't any excess crumbs.


Here is the recipe I use for buttercream:

http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-713347-.html

I've made my class cake, and another cake with this recipe, and I love it.




We had this problem a while back and it turned out to be the "new" Crisco with 0-trans fats. The thing about trans fats is they stick -- making them really good for the buttercream and really bad for your heart... icon_eek.gificon_cool.gif Hi Ratio shortening is what I use exclusively (except for my idiot proof practice icing). Hope that helps! icon_biggrin.gif

Rhonlynn Posted 6 Jun 2011 , 12:02am
post #11 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobwonderbuns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhonlynn

I made my Elvis cake, and it turned out cute. But I was so frustrated while frosting it. No matter what I did, I couldn't get the icing to adhere to the cake.it was nuts! The icing just fell off of it. Why did it do that?

Some of it I had froze, but found I needed another layer, so I made that layer yesterday. It was 2 8 x 3, torted, and filled. The pictures are in my photos. The cake turned out good, but it too me forever to frost the blue. I didn't think I needed to crumb coat it, cause there weren't any excess crumbs.


Here is the recipe I use for buttercream:

http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-713347-.html

I've made my class cake, and another cake with this recipe, and I love it.



We had this problem a while back and it turned out to be the "new" Crisco with 0-trans fats. The thing about trans fats is they stick -- making them really good for the buttercream and really bad for your heart... icon_eek.gificon_cool.gif Hi Ratio shortening is what I use exclusively (except for my idiot proof practice icing). Hope that helps! icon_biggrin.gif




I understand the Idiot proof rercipe. What is your regular recipe for icing?

bobwonderbuns Posted 6 Jun 2011 , 12:28am
post #12 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhonlynn

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobwonderbuns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhonlynn

I made my Elvis cake, and it turned out cute. But I was so frustrated while frosting it. No matter what I did, I couldn't get the icing to adhere to the cake.it was nuts! The icing just fell off of it. Why did it do that?

Some of it I had froze, but found I needed another layer, so I made that layer yesterday. It was 2 8 x 3, torted, and filled. The pictures are in my photos. The cake turned out good, but it too me forever to frost the blue. I didn't think I needed to crumb coat it, cause there weren't any excess crumbs.


Here is the recipe I use for buttercream:

http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-713347-.html

I've made my class cake, and another cake with this recipe, and I love it.



We had this problem a while back and it turned out to be the "new" Crisco with 0-trans fats. The thing about trans fats is they stick -- making them really good for the buttercream and really bad for your heart... icon_eek.gificon_cool.gif Hi Ratio shortening is what I use exclusively (except for my idiot proof practice icing). Hope that helps! icon_biggrin.gif



I understand the Idiot proof rercipe. What is your regular recipe for icing?




2 Cups Crisco
4 TBSP water
4 Cups 10X powdered sugar (1 lb)
Cream Crisco and water together and add powdered sugar in two batches, mixing well between each addition. Does not need to be refrigerated.
  ~This is used for practice piping ONLY in class, NOT to be used on real cake.~

This is the practice icing we use in my basic buttercream class. Most decorators use some version of the Wilton decorator icing (as did I for many years) but I got so sick of it with the icing consistency issues and trying to teach it that I came up with this recipe so we could get right to the piping and we didn't cover consistency issues until later in the class. The nice thing about this recipe I've found is that all the students make it and they all came up with the SAME consistency EVERY TIME!!! icon_lol.gif That could NOT be said for the decorator icings. Hope that helps! icon_biggrin.gif

Rhonlynn Posted 6 Jun 2011 , 12:31am
post #13 of 28

Thanks...what do you use on your cakes? I'll use that in my class....no more wasting Penzey's vanilla, or the fake stuff that Wilton's makes!

bobwonderbuns Posted 6 Jun 2011 , 12:35am
post #14 of 28

I have a specialized noncrusting buttercream that I spent forever perfecting so I don't share that recipe, but I also use Indydebi's buttercream as well or Sugarshack's recipe. Both are great crusting buttercream recipes that I use interchangeably.

Rhonlynn Posted 6 Jun 2011 , 12:46am
post #15 of 28

I'm going to try one or the other one next.

bobwonderbuns Posted 6 Jun 2011 , 12:51am
post #16 of 28

I've used both of them with great success. Indy's tends to be a touch thick for me so I thin it out with more cream (I use nondairy creamer instead of milk in hers -- a trick I picked up from Sugarshack.) I do use only hi-ratio shortening on the cakes though. Crisco for the idiot proof practice icing.

Rhonlynn Posted 6 Jun 2011 , 1:20am
post #17 of 28

Is the coffee creamer in Sugarshack's, liquid nondairy? It comes in tons of flavors.

bobwonderbuns Posted 6 Jun 2011 , 1:38am
post #18 of 28

She uses powdered plain flavored coffee creamer then reconstitutes it with equal amounts of hot water. That's how I do it now.

Rhonlynn Posted 6 Jun 2011 , 2:12am
post #19 of 28

I just got the video on Saturday afternoon, and I've not watched it yet. So, you use 11 T of hot water, 11 T or powdered coffee creamer. That's genius. My mixer is 4.5 not 5. I think I saw the variation to the 4.5 mixer.

bobwonderbuns Posted 6 Jun 2011 , 2:19am
post #20 of 28

She has two videos where she makes the buttercream, the Buttercream video and the Back to Basics video. (I have all her videos and LOVE all of them!!) I like the nondairy creamer option because I know cake lovers who are lactose intolerant so I try to be mindful of them.

Gerle Posted 6 Jun 2011 , 2:26am
post #21 of 28

Bobwonderbuns...question for you regarding your "idiot proof" buttercream. You use this strictly for practice and never use it on cakes? Can you store leftover and if so, refrigerate or freeze or both? I'd like to find a "practice icing" that I could use and not worry about too much for practicing flowers, writing, etc.

classiccake Posted 6 Jun 2011 , 2:27am
post #22 of 28

Rhonlynn,

I looked at the photos of your cake. It looked like you used a patterned paper towel to smooth the top of your cake. It left a very defined impression on the surface of your cake. From that, I think your icing was way too soft.

I only use a high ratio shortening and it does give a more stable consistency to your icing. My decorators always complain about Crisco if they try to use the same recipe for icing at home and the only change is the type of shortening.

Icing always sticks to icing. I train my girls to ice the top of the cake first and leave some icing hanging over the edge. That way, when you attach your first dollop of icing to the side of the cake, it has something to cling or adhere to. Then the next dollop of icing I put on top of the icing I just put on. That way the icing sticks to icing. Then I "scoot" the next dollop of icing forward and continue around the cake.

If there is any moisture on the side of your cake icing, then the icing slides right off also. If you had a frozen layer, did you stack the cakes and put icing between them? If you did, then that could contribute to the problem. I hope you have better luck with your next cake!

bobwonderbuns Posted 6 Jun 2011 , 2:29am
post #23 of 28

Yes, you can use it until the next ice age if you like. There's nothing in it to go bad so you don't need to refrigerate it. It can be used over and over (I use it until it's soupy from use then make a new batch.) It lasts for months. Now it's a great medium consistency icing -- not great for some of the piped flowers though.

cabecakes Posted 6 Jun 2011 , 2:39am
post #24 of 28

Classiccake, I was wondering the same thing. I wonder if her frozen cake was condensating and not allowing the icing to stick, or maybe the frozen cake was more moist because it had been frozen.

Rhonlynn Posted 6 Jun 2011 , 3:07am
post #25 of 28

I thawed it, but I didn't crumb coat it, and, I didn't leave a bit to adhere it to on the top. I'm not sure she taught us that. But I'm glad you told me that, and it makes since. I should've crumb coated it. For a first cake it turned out pretty good, and my neighbor liked it...me, on the other hand, I'm hard on myself and I want perfection. I'll practice icing something fake, I noticed black that ran kind of purple this morning, which made me irritated. in the letters I cursived.


I won't be baking for a few days, it's too hot, (we have the air on,but I'm not going to contribute to the heat.) and I'm busy this week and the weekend. I have my first fondant class on Tuesday. Same teacher. I wish I had a practice cake. I'll get one on Friday.


I did the impression of the paper towel on purpose, which gave it a good effect. Should the icing be thicker consistency for that? It seemed to blot alot of grease when I smoothed it. Then when I did the paper towel impression, the grease went away. That was kind of cool. But does icing need to be thicker consistency for it?

Rhonlynn Posted 6 Jun 2011 , 3:19am
post #26 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by classiccake

Rhonlynn,

I looked at the photos of your cake. It looked like you used a patterned paper towel to smooth the top of your cake. It left a very defined impression on the surface of your cake. From that, I think your icing was way too soft.

I only use a high ratio shortening and it does give a more stable consistency to your icing. My decorators always complain about Crisco if they try to use the same recipe for icing at home and the only change is the type of shortening.

Icing always sticks to icing. I train my girls to ice the top of the cake first and leave some icing hanging over the edge. That way, when you attach your first dollop of icing to the side of the cake, it has something to cling or adhere to. Then the next dollop of icing I put on top of the icing I just put on. That way the icing sticks to icing. Then I "scoot" the next dollop of icing forward and continue around the cake.

If there is any moisture on the side of your cake icing, then the icing slides right off also. If you had a frozen layer, did you stack the cakes and put icing between them? If you did, then that could contribute to the problem. I hope you have better luck with your next cake!




I had split the two layers, so I had 4 layers. Inbetween the layers I had white icing in one, chocolate in the other, and white in the other. I was taught to start icing at the bottom, and use the frosting tip. But, I recently bought the scraper and the sugarshack DVD, which I'll watch sometime this week. That may change everything. I've had troubles all long with my icing not being the right consistency. I did better, I think, with the generic Wilton recipe, but no one likes the taste. I improved the consistency when I bought my Kitchenaid Standalone mixer, it came out smooth.

I understand about the deep impression, now, rereading it. It's supposed to be a light impression?...On Friday, I''m buying a dumby cake,and I'm making practice frosting, the recipe you guys gave me. And i'll get some hi ratio shortening.

Thanks so much for your help. Do you frost the sides starting at the top, or the bottom?

classiccake Posted 6 Jun 2011 , 3:40am
post #27 of 28

I sometimes start at the top side of the cake on smaller cakes...8" or less. then I add a little more icing, plus the excess from the top half to finish the side of the cake. On larger cakes I use a long angeled spatula and ice the cake from top to bottom in one motion. I have had 40 years of practice though! It is a learned skill. Hang in there and you will find your "best" way and learn the best consistency for your icing. i really do believe alot of your problem was too soft icing.

Rhonlynn Posted 6 Jun 2011 , 12:15pm
post #28 of 28

That's exactly right! I'll go Friday and get a Styrofoam to practice. My class cake, the little one with the roses, was iced very thin, with thicker consistency. I had no problems at all.

I'll make up practice icing, and remember: thin coat, thicker consistency. By then I'd watched the DVD.

Then I'll bake a real cake, and use Sharon's recipe, after converting it down to 4.5 quart mixer. If I weren't completely busy this next weekend, I'd be able to practice then.

I love looking at the cakes, both pictures online, and then in person. They had a cake show a month ago, but I didn't know about it and missed it.

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