Venting! A Customer Took My Design To Another Caker!

Decorating By MamaNenascakes Updated 26 May 2011 , 9:32pm by indydebi

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PJ37 Posted 25 May 2011 , 9:06pm
post #31 of 51

Just a thought...bill her for consultation and design fees...after all, you are working hard "for every penny" just like she has. icon_wink.gif

I wouldn't expect that she would pay, but you will have the satisfaction of letting her know how wrong this was and that "time is money", it is stealing, etc.

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jason_kraft Posted 25 May 2011 , 10:17pm
post #32 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ37

Just a thought...bill her for consultation and design fees...after all, you are working hard "for every penny" just like she has. icon_wink.gif

I wouldn't expect that she would pay, but you will have the satisfaction of letting her know how wrong this was and that "time is money", it is stealing, etc.



That's a great way to make an enemy out of a potential future customer. You can't charge someone for something they didn't agree to beforehand...that's called false billing, and people have gone to jail for that in more egregious cases.

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PJ37 Posted 26 May 2011 , 12:16am
post #33 of 51

Whoops! icon_biggrin.gif

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DSmo Posted 26 May 2011 , 12:49am
post #34 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by leah_s

1. My sketches are MY work product and belong to ME. They never go into the customer's hands.




My thoughts exactly.

I'm confused as to why was the sketch handed over. Not only because of the copyright issue, but wouldn't you want to keep the sketch on hand for reference when you're doing the cake?

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scp1127 Posted 26 May 2011 , 7:02am
post #35 of 51

She was not ready to commit because she did not give a deposit. She was clearly still shopping. The checkbook story is an old one. Serious buyers put the money down. Sometimes people don't want to offend you by saying the price is too much or maybe they haven't finished shopping. If you sketched it out while she was there, that few minutes probably did not seem like a big investment. Many contractors submit designs as a courtesy, hoping that that little extra effort will swing the sale. It doesn't mean that the buyer is obligated. Throwing something together on a piece of paper looks to the customer as a sales incentive. She had not committed and she knew it.

In the future, a rough draft that you don't mind being possibly "shopped" could be given to the customer. A true design sketch should be saved for after the contract is signed and money exchanges hands.

We have all copied someone else's designs. Every time we are given a picture to copy, even if we change some of it, we still copied it. Even if we draw it from scratch, as much as we all look at every cake possible, we are drawing on something we have seen and wanted to do. Yes, some people are true, original artists. But most of the pictures on this site are similar to other cakes.

I'm sorry you feel bad. You thought it was a sale. In reality, it was not a sale. The baker who got the sale may have said she will do something similar. And nobody cares who bakes the cake first except you. In the end, customers will still shop for the taste, price, and design that suits them the most. They don't care about a cake war between bakers.

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allaboutcakeuk Posted 26 May 2011 , 8:19am
post #36 of 51

Totally feel from you on this as someone kept pressing me to have her wedding cake design I had sketched but I refused. Her wedding is this year and she still hasn't come back to me to order her cake. I was guessing she would actually use my design elsewhere. No consultation she just wanted me to email her the design. Wasn't doing it. Unfortunately it happens. It's happened to me and how do you draw the line on stopping people doing it? Has no-one here put a starburst on a cake? well someone out there came up with that idea are we all breaching copyright law for doing a starburst on a cake? This is an interesting article that came up http://theintellectable.blogspot.com/2010/09/cake-design-and-copyright-law.html and this http://pccoursedirector.blogspot.com/2010/11/week-of-cupcakes-self-confidence-and.html - from planet cake about how they deal with it all. Sorry this happened to you it makes you so mad!

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ThreeLittleBlackbirds Posted 26 May 2011 , 8:22am
post #37 of 51

In any business, there are gains and there are losses. You won't win over every potential client that you meet with, and that's ok. I would rather that the people who can't afford me move along on their merry way because it's more than likely that no matter how great the cake is, they will complain to all their friends and family about how much they had to pay. I want the kind of clients that are not only willing and able to pay, but will appreciate the time and artistry that went into making the cake, and tell everyone they know how amazing it was.

I know it's difficult right now, but try to be flattered that she liked your design enough to want to take it with her. She probably didn't have any bad intentions...more than likely just wanted to give her daughter a nice cake and couldn't afford you. Let some other baker make the cake...who cares. Trust your own talent and artistry to know that there will be many more unique and beautiful cakes you'll make over the years that will more than replace this one that was lost.

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Lelka Posted 26 May 2011 , 4:14pm
post #38 of 51

I had several different experiences with that as well. The tastings arent free and that gives you a head start "no pay - no interest". I sketched a cake and had tasting, they were happy but took the sketch someplace else and got their money worth. Ironically, I am making their anniversary cake icon_smile.gif Another situation, people shopped around before they met me, we had tasting and sketching - they signed on the spot. Or even, no tasting, no meeting, I sketched for them after a long emails and they booked and sent full payment right away. There are many different ways to take it, but make sure there are no more freebies! IT is YOUR time and YOU are the only one know how much that worth!

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Sorelle Posted 26 May 2011 , 4:40pm
post #39 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaNaof5

I had the same experience. Potential customer took a pic of a sweet 16 cake I had designed and made to another baker who I'm sure beat my pricing. My friend happened to see the pics from the party, and there was an imitation of my cake. On my facebook page I posted, "Often imitated but never duplicated!"




GREAT quote!

I really hope you make the cake and blow everyone away with you skills. I think I am going to use Leah's policy great idea. I haven't had this happen but would be feeling ripped off. Designing something original is the hardest part of caking( imo)

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MamaNenascakes Posted 26 May 2011 , 4:52pm
post #40 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmijok

IF the design is an ORIGINAL design then yes...I'd be PO'd about another baker doing it. But really, how original is it? Were you doing something so totally different from any other wedding cake ever made? I mean, like the first person that ever did a topsy turvy cake...THAT was original. Now it's everywhere. Was this design something that no one else could have thought of given the bride's direction? Let's face it, many brides come in with pictures of cakes from magazines and other sources, some for inspiration...some want direct copies.

At the bakery I worked for, a bride wanted a cake exactly like the picture another baker in town had in a city magazine. Reason? She liked our cake better (we were more expensive too) but she was dead set on the design. So we did it...only we made it look a hell of a lot better and made a few little changes. No doubt this other baker will make a few changes too.

I can fully appreciate your anger. You were taken advantage of. But it's a lesson learned. Whenever I did a tasting I would make little sketches while the bride was talking. I did the sketches on the order pad. If the bride made a deposit great. If she wanted to 'get back' with us, I put the order form with the sketch in a folder and kept it in-house. I really don't remember too many brides who didn't book with us wanting to take the sketch with them. However nothing was going to leave the bakery if it wasn't signed and sealed. Not so much because it was so 'original' as much as it was the principle of the work that we had already taken the time and effort to do.




The design is completely original, as this is a graduation cake that was showing in every tier the aspects of the girls life.. from childhood to all her high school and future college degree... it was very particular design. I learned, I sent her an email... and I'm freakin doing that cake next week!

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jason_kraft Posted 26 May 2011 , 5:06pm
post #41 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaNenascakes

I'm freakin doing that cake next week!



Why?

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ThreeLittleBlackbirds Posted 26 May 2011 , 5:12pm
post #42 of 51

You mean she wants you to do the cake now, or you mean you're going to do it first just for the heck of it? If the cake is that specific to that particular girl (her life story) wont that be a bit odd for you to do it just because for no real client?

This girl is graduating from high school, a once in a lifetime event. Just let the girl have her moment, let her have her cake and eat it too. Take the high road and move on. Being angry about it and seeking revenge is only going to make YOU look bad.

Unless, of course I am totally misunderstanding your last post...

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Lili5768 Posted 26 May 2011 , 5:13pm
post #43 of 51

Perhaps drawing the sketch on paper that's already been printed with the statement "This sketch is the sole property and material of________and may not be used without written consent" or words to that effect. This might be a deterrent. And of course the design will never be the same come out the same as the original designer intended!

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jason_kraft Posted 26 May 2011 , 5:22pm
post #44 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lili5768

Perhaps drawing the sketch on paper that's already been printed with the statement "This sketch is the sole property and material of________and may not be used without written consent" or words to that effect. This might be a deterrent.



You're right that it could be a deterrent, just be aware that realistically your recourse here is very limited. If the customer takes the sketch to another baker (and you somehow manage to find out about it, and the other baker doesn't modify the design), would you really be willing to sue the other baker for copyright infringement? Even if you won the case, the damages would probably only reflect the time you spent creating the design (i.e. not much), unless punitive damages were assessed as well (unlikely).

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WykdGud Posted 26 May 2011 , 5:28pm
post #45 of 51

I have only done sketches at tastings, and since I charge $50 for a tasting (which they get credit for if they book with me) - I figure they can keep the sketch, what am I going to do with it anyway? Try to convince some other customer to buy the same cake someone else wanted?

I can see being a little miffed by the fact that someone else is charging a lower price for your same design, but other than that, I think I'd just let it go and look to see how the cake turned out (if the baker posts pics).

If this concerns you in the future, charge for the tasting/meeting or a flat fee for the sketch. For most cakes though, I take orders via email or the phone, so I'm just given an idea/theme and I'm trusted to "run with it" - no sketch required. BTW, I HATE doing sketches anyway... because when you actually make the cake, it always looks different than it does on paper, and you might want to add or remove some design elements. If you have a sketch, the customer can come back and complain that "It didn't have the pink daisy on the bottom tier like it does in the sketch! I want a refund!!!" LOL!

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RetiredNavyChief Posted 26 May 2011 , 5:35pm
post #46 of 51

Sucks I know, thats why I dont give them the sketch until I get a deposit.

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BakerAnn Posted 26 May 2011 , 6:02pm
post #47 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by WykdGud

... because when you actually make the cake, it always looks different than it does on paper, and you might want to add or remove some design elements. If you have a sketch, the customer can come back and complain that "It didn't have the pink daisy on the bottom tier like it does in the sketch! I want a refund!!!" LOL!




And there are people who would do that without a second thought! After the discussion on this thread I think I am going to start putting a little disclaimer at the bottom of my sketch that says something to the effect of, "This is a rough sketch of the cake design. The decorator reserves the right to make minor changes on the actual cake which, in her opinion, will enhance the overall design." Then I am going to keep the sketch - no copies and no emails of it. It's not that I'm worried about another designer using it. I just don't want to be forced into a refund for a missing pink daisy! icon_biggrin.gif

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costumeczar Posted 26 May 2011 , 6:15pm
post #48 of 51

I have a section describing the different parts of the cake on the contract, and I write everythng down. Topper, design on sides, borders, etc. No sketching needed unless something's really tricky, then I keep it in case the client doesn't send it back to me (or tries to shop it around.)

There really aren't very many original ideas around, so if someone wants to copy my note about putting a border at the base ot the tier that's fine. I completely see the aggravation of having someone take your design and shop it around, though.

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Kiddiekakes Posted 26 May 2011 , 6:23pm
post #49 of 51

I don't sketch anything...besides the fact I can't draw....I have never had to present a sketch to a customer...I guess I am lucky..They see my work on my website and say"I trust your creative talent"

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cakedout Posted 26 May 2011 , 6:41pm
post #50 of 51

That's too bad. Looks like it happened to many of us. It happened to me way back when I was just a hobby baker. Bride and her Mother came for a consult and spent almost 2 freakin' hours there working out a cake design (we used my pans for a 'visual' aide)! icon_confused.gificon_sad.gif The Mother kept saying she doesn't see how a 16" square cake can serve that many people...ggrrrr. icon_mad.gif Hubby wasn't home, but said that if he had been, he would have escorted them out the door! icon_lol.gif To add insult to injury, they never booked -and I learned they took the sketch elsewhere. icon_mad.gif

After that I learned my lesson....and soon was able to determine if the client was still "just looking" (sob stories are a dead give away) or was seriouly ready to book. For the "Lucy Lookie's" I didn't even make a sketch - they got a simple invoice with a price quote and 2 weeks to make a decision before I booked their date with another client. I'd wish them well and say when they were ready to make a deposit to schedule another appointment to sign the contract and go over details. thumbs_up.gif

I know you are upset, but as Indydeb says: "NEXT!"

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indydebi Posted 26 May 2011 , 9:32pm
post #51 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by WykdGud

BTW, I HATE doing sketches anyway... because when you actually make the cake, it always looks different than it does on paper, and you might want to add or remove some design elements. If you have a sketch, the customer can come back and complain that "It didn't have the pink daisy on the bottom tier like it does in the sketch! I want a refund!!!" LOL!



boy do I agree with this statement! People get a little insane when it comes to the idea of "perfect" at a wedding. (reminds me of my caterer friend who was sued for a FULL refund because MOB found 3 grapes on the floor by the buffet table. She thought it looked tacky and of course it "RUINED the wedding!")

Like others have mentioned, I never sketched, and any excel drawings of the cake I did (plain "boxes", stacked up in cake form, with notes written to the right on how that tier s/b decorated) were for my benefit. My brides got copies of this when I emailed the quote so they could confirm the cake flavors/fillings were correct, etc., but none of them ever asked for a "sketch".

I did do one detailed drawing in excel (bride was an engineer) of this cake:

http://cakecentral.com/gallery/1219555

I know it was shopped to other bakers but I got the booking.

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