I also have noticed something I thought a bit concerning before the cake is even made, but as a (not great) hobby baker I thought it might have been just me... the posts you read saying things along the lines of... "I have been baking and decorating for three months now and just got my first wedding cake order. The bride wants this cake (with a hugely elaborate picture of a, say fondant, cake) serving 600. Please help the wedding is in 6 weeks. I haven't used fondant or stacked cakes before (or whatever techniques are vital for the pictured cake)"

Oh my gosh, OP you read my mind! I was thinking of how to formulate it so as to not offend...but you did that so well. One thing I wanted to add is I hate when I read "it was good for the price they paid" with the caveat that the customer "should be happy they got that". I'm here screaming at my computer screen - REALLY!???

As a professional, EVERY cake you send out the door should be the cleanest, prettiest, most decorative, perfect cake you can make. It is not the customers fault if you under-priced the cake, you can not then decide to limit the decorations because the expenses were running high. (and then write a thread that they can't believe the customer was upset she didn't get all the decor originally discussed.) Part of being professional is fully understanding how to accurately price. Another big part of being professional is providing the BEST EVERY TIME.

I wish I could "like" all these posts! I think you all nailed it on the head. Folks need to be honest with themselves and their skill level before they accept an order. I think that sometimes this can be hard to do, especially when friends and family are telling you how wonderful, beautiful your cakes are. But there is a huge difference between making a cake for family and friends vs a paying customer or someone's wedding cake.

IndyDebi, boy I know what you mean about not forgetting - When I was a bride (20+ years ago), I did EVERYTHING for my informal wedding - flowers, dress & veil, groomscake, carved watermelon, food trays - EXCEPT for the Bridal Cake, my mom said - I will take care of that for you. I got married in a pink dress so I decided to take two little bears and dress them to match us and use for a topper. I sent the lace covered base to the bakery so that the flowers would definitely match and when the cake arrived... DUH DUN DUUuunn... The flowers on it were lilac, not pink, not burgandy but light purple. I can honestly say that it was the worst decorating job ever on a two tier stacked cake. It was pound cake with LARD frosting and was so sweet it almost made me sick.

I will never forget that feeling and have a horror of it happening to any of my family that I have made cakes for. I myself do not take on wedding cakes that I can't handle but I can understand the messes that bakers get into both hobbyist and professional when they get pressured to do something based on a personal/friend/family relationship.

I learned to do cakes on my own, reading everything I could get my hands on (including some spiffy 1959 Scandinavian Maid magazines a friend gave me) because I wanted my daughter to have "special" birthdays and in the past 17 years I have done fairly well. Because of this I am asked frequently to cake and I say no to virtually everyone except my neices and nephews (I have around 35+ of them so I have plenty to do). Its hard to tell someone no when you know that it will make them angry or hurt their feelings. That does come into play into several threads on here lately where the "client" has been gifted something that they do not appreciate and the baker has been "guilted" into taking on more than they can chew.

Maybe it would be really helpful for some of the professionals here to start or repost a thread on here that would help us newbies/hobbyists learn to deal with the customer from the start....What do yall think.

For a business owner, perhaps this insight from a customer's perspective, will make a lot of sense.

When I deal with a business, if an employee makes a mistake,or treats me badly, I am much more forgiving than if the owner or manager does the same thing to me. I hold the owner or manager of a business to a much higher standard. Here are my 'for instances.'

1. Manager at one Joann Fabrics location yelled at me and treated me horribly. I didn't go back to that location for many years and I told all my friends to not go there. The nasty manager is now gone, so I sometimes go there, but every time I walk in that door, I think about the bad experience I had.

2. Furniture store. The delivery guys didn't want to take the sofa through the kitchen as I asked, so they decided to remove the door stop on the wall. The sofa was too wide for that next doorway, it pushed the door against the wall and the knob inched through the wall. We called the store to report it and the manager showed up at my house and stood in my living room,telling my husband and I we were liars and yelled at us. We tell every person we know to not shop there.

3. We had some kind of problem at a restaurant with the waiter. The waiter thought we were causing a problem and reported us to the manager. The manager came over to ask us what the problem was and we told him that the server was being nasty when we asked for one of the meals to be remade (some kind of problem, we were very polite.) the manager actually apologized, gave us the meal for free. The server was let go for (I'm assuming this was not the first time) and we continue to go to that restaurant. That was 6 years ago.

I've also been to stores and such where the employee has not treated me well, but I realize that person is just one employee and has no power, so I still go to the store. In fact, my exterminator has an employee that I cannot stand, but I like the owner and his son, so we continue to use their services, and I even have two friends whose husbands are exterminators, but I still use this other company because the owner has treated me so well for many years.

I've also dealt with other small businesses where the owner is arrogant and thinks they are better than me, and treat me like an idiot. I never go back.

Thank you for this post! I hope everyone reads this. It's just like this friend I have on Facebook. Lately she's been posting cakes that she's been making. Most of them are the shaped pans/star-tipped cakes, or "naughty themed". Just recently she's been making posts about how she's starting to sell them, and get her name out there, and what she should call her business. I want to reach through the computer screen sometimes and shake her! What are you thinking??!!! Not only are the cakes "not great looking" (to put it mildly!), but she's going into a "business" without knowing a thing about it! I'm in the process of getting my legal business of the ground and it's been a long process because of financial reasons. Every time I read one of her posts, I want to scream and I also want to scream at the people who are commenting that her cakes are good and encouraging her and giving her a big head. I feel the same way when I'm reading some of the posts on here. I have no problem with you making cakes for someone and work on your skills. But either don't charge them, or just charge supplies for goodness sake! Beyond the design of the cake, your cake shouldn't have uneven tiers, lumpy fondant, and sagging corners. You may be the best decorator, but if you don't have a nice "canvas" to start with, it's going to make any decoration look like garbage!!! Ahhhhh....thanks for the vent! lol

I think it also comes from being humble enough to know our limitations. Humble enough to listen to criticisms. I don't do tupsy turvy cakes... I will love to, but I haven't had a chance to practice. I don't carve anything because I am not patient enough.
All too often people want to rush the process. Perfection takes time. Some of you are there because you have invested that time. Some of us look at your pictures and think we can do it and charge the same prices forgetting we are not there yet.

We can only hope that these inexperienced bakers with poor customer service are our competitors!! Kidding.. but it is funny how you can do a business analysis of your area and write off the 80% that don't have these skills. I think they compete with each other because the pros don't even include them in mix as part of the local industry. I am speaking for myself, but I am sure the bakers/business pros know what I mean.

Reminds me, one the most horrifying phrases I see on here is "Oh she got a deal, what's she complaining about", when used as a counter argument to pieces being sloppy, or elements left off due to a time crunch, or a generally unhappy customer who expected what was promised.

I want to thank all of the members who have posted on this thread because you have said what needs to be said. I have been a member here for a year but have not done a lot of posting, I have just been soaking up information like a sponge.

I want to open my own bakery and I have been working on it for almost five years. I started off by going to Scottsdale Culinary Institute where I graduated from their Patisserie and Baking program with a 4.0 gpa. The most important thing I learned was that I still had a lot to learn.

This field is huge and there is no way any school could teach me everything I needed to know. I think that is where so many people get into trouble. They went to classes so they know everything. I have worked at three different types of bakeries since graduation, I attend continuing education classes, and I am certified by the American Culinary Federation, but I still have a some things to work out before I open my business.

You only have one chance to make a first impression and I want to make sure I do things right. I have learned so much from all of you at CC so THANK YOU!!!

tbkimber, people like you are the only reason I post any information I have. When I was working on planning my bakery, I learned so much from this site. I didn't join for over a year. Many times the OP or others will totally contradict those people on this site who are obviously successful and have business knowledge to offer as well as baking knowledge. But I hope that ther are people like you (that used to be me) that will find the information on this site as valuable as I did, and can filter through the not so good advice.

tkimber... great job on your education. I would suggest some busines classes. But if you are self-motivated... which you obviously are, you can get the book knowledge of business fron the multitudes of great books on the market. I have been out of college for over twenty years and I have never stopped studying. I have taught myself all of the new marketing techniques for my business and it all came from reading every night. Good luck in your endeavors, but actually, there is no luck in it, just working smart.

Thank you for posting this, Kitagrl! I've been a lurker on this website for a long time, and you are one of the few people that I practically follow every post you make. You're kind, but professional, encouraging and complimentary, but not just because you feel you need to be. You mean it, and I respect that.

I'm a hobbyist too, and I would love to go into business... ONE DAY. I'm a stay at home mom of 2 beautiful girls under 2, and want to stay that way until they are in school. So give or take 4-5 years of practice, practice, educate before even attempting that venture!

I am also appalled many times at the attitudes of some people on this site. The majority seem to be new business owners who just don't understand the concept of customer service. I worked in high end retail for many years, and even though my store was completely over the top when it came to the "customer is always right" concept, it's very true that customer reviews can make or break your business. So a full priced shoddy cake isn't going to cut it. Heck, a shoddy cake isn't going to cut it anyway. I know full well enough my cakes aren't good enough to sell, even if half my friends say so. They haven't seen what a real pro can do, or the pictures that are posted on this site daily.

The other thing I've noticed, both on and offsite, is that more and more people are concerned with the decorating, and less how the cake tastes. Let's be honest here. I will eat the ugliest cake in the world if it tastes like heaven. And I will toss the most gorgeous cake you've ever seen in the trash if it tastes bland, dry, or off. Back to basics folks! Get the recipes and baking techniques down first, then work on the insanely glass smooth buttercream, or the 3D gumpaste figures.

And to those of you who realize that there are humble hobby bakers and wannabe cake business owners out here, thank you for your knowledge and encouragement.

I say we start a pact to bump this thread and keep it at the top of the forum for a while.

I like sharing advice and experiences, but I am WAY over getting called a meanie for saying what needs to be said. I too am often shaking my head horrified at some of the work people post here then complain that the customer isn't happy. Uh, news flash, your cake sucked. Deal with it and try and make it right. Lord knows not every cake I make is a masterpiece, several of them I felt down right sucked, especially since I am still trying to work out my style. But I'd never promise a WEDDING CAKE using a technique I didn't have time to practice, test out and perfect. I'd never start a thread with HALP IM MAKING WEDDING CAKE AND I DON'T KNOW HOW!!!!!ELEVENTY!!!!

On the other hand, the market will weed out these novice decorators with delusions of going on TV and making as much money as Duff simply by their customers trashing them after paying for a poorly decorated cake and dealing unprofessional attitudes.

Jen

Sammie...you are so sweet.

I lied cause I forgot one thing

This isnt Professionals Only Cake Central way back in 08 when I registered I didnt have to provide a license number or anything so I am sure amateurs are allowed. Post that on yalls wall to remind you everytime you read something. Not everyone wants to be a Food Network Star, seems you are just a little jealous that more folks take an interest into what used to be a small market.

I suggest we all ignore the person/newbie/troll who is trying to start a fight in a perfectly good thread so that we do not get this thread closed down.

No, no, I think you are misunderstanding this thread.... we are talking about decorators who will charge $100 for a cake, mess it up, and then get on here an complain that their customer has no right to be upset.

If you read the entire thread, you'll see that we have ALL been novices, and I never claim to be perfect. I have bad cake weekends...I make mistakes....the point of this thread is that as decorators, we need to own up to our mistakes and treat the customers right, instead of messing up their cakes and then being stingy with refunds or apologies.[/quote]

Wasn't really referring to your posts, just making a observation about certain folks posts which seem to be the same from forum to forum, thread to thread. Dont matter much anyway, like they say if you cant stand the book, just gotta stop reading. scratch that underlined thing.

I'm not trying to start anything, I am just making an observation about the professionals who obviously cannot stand what they freely dish out to others.