kimcakes99 Posted 4 Mar 2011 , 4:15am
post #1 of

I have a recipe for swiss merengue buttercream that I really love.Now I want to try a italian merengue buttercream.Can I use the same recipe ingredients?Can I just change the method.I have heard that is the same recipe,just it requires to cook the sugar.Thanks! icon_biggrin.gif

55 replies
kimcakes99 Posted 9 Mar 2011 , 3:49am
post #2 of

please icon_lol.gif

scp1127 Posted 9 Mar 2011 , 8:28am
post #3 of

Why don't you just use a recipe that is a known good one? You may be setting yourself up for failure. I am all for making a recipe "personal", but when trying a new technique, I follow it exactly the first time. There are so many discussions about this on CC. Study first and use one of the favorite recipes on CC. Good luck and we will all be here to help as you go through making the recipe the first time. They were here for me when I decided to overthink IMBC and botched the first batch. I used the Cake Love recipe. The second batch was perfect because of the help I got here.

sweetaudrey Posted 11 Mar 2011 , 5:44am
post #4 of

I've usually always used the disolving suger in whites over double broiler method. And I've also used a recipe that called for dissolving the suger in water and then adding it slowly. ALLLL methods I have tried have miserably failed. I love the tast of the egg whites so I prefer to keep using them. Yes, I know the humidity factor and I"ve payed closer attention to that and I still can't get it work. I must be just buttercream stupid or something because I cannot get this down. Someone HELP! icon_cry.gif

SugarandSpice3674 Posted 11 Mar 2011 , 6:06am
post #5 of

I use the whimsical bakehouse recipe for Imbc, have made it several times and am absolutley in love with how easy it is, essentially it is the same ingredients as smbc, you just cook the sugar to a certain temp (245) and add it into your egg whites( whipped to stiff peaks) they have the recipe on their site. I also find that using a candy thermometer is more reliable than timing it like it says to in the bakehouse recipe. Cake loves specifies to bring sugar to 245 i believe.

http://www.whimsicalbakehouse.com/bake/bake_detail_no_photo.html

Cake loves recipe, is also a good one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxWmiHRTMz8

he really explains the method well in this video. i mustve watched it 4 times before i made imbc for the first time lol. HTH

icer101 Posted 11 Mar 2011 , 6:35am
post #6 of

I also make whimsical bakehouse imbc. It is the best i have ever tasted. I also make smbc.

sweetaudrey Posted 12 Mar 2011 , 5:57am
post #7 of

So I tried your guyses advice and at first it was working out well. I got good volume in my egg whites and everything. I made sure my whites were completely room temp before adding the butter and still it turned into a soup. And no matter how much I beat it afterwords, it was still a soup. It does this EVERY SINGLE time I make buttercream with whites no matter which kind or method I use. I'm starting to think that this part of Illinois is just a terrible place to make this icing...or buttercream just doesn't like me. I'm at a loss. icon_mad.gif

scp1127 Posted 12 Mar 2011 , 10:53am
post #8 of

This may sound odd, but what size is your mixer? I have Kitchenaids... a pro 6 and it comes together perfectly. If I am making another batch in my artisan right beside it, it takes forever. Reason: The artisan creates heat at the motor and makes the process take forever. The pro 6 stays cool. For the smaller mixer I have taken the CC advice and packed frozen vegetables around the outside of the bowl. And I wipe down the motor area periodically with a cool cloth. Another thing I do is my butter is still cold. I do the finger indent test (can push your finger in but there is still resistance). Your only problem is temperature. Sometimes you just have to find the odd quirks of your equipment.

sweetaudrey Posted 14 Mar 2011 , 2:30pm
post #9 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by scp1127

This may sound odd, but what size is your mixer? I have Kitchenaids... a pro 6 and it comes together perfectly. If I am making another batch in my artisan right beside it, it takes forever. Reason: The artisan creates heat at the motor and makes the process take forever. The pro 6 stays cool. For the smaller mixer I have taken the CC advice and packed frozen vegetables around the outside of the bowl. And I wipe down the motor area periodically with a cool cloth. Another thing I do is my butter is still cold. I do the finger indent test (can push your finger in but there is still resistance). Your only problem is temperature. Sometimes you just have to find the odd quirks of your equipment.




I want a kitchenaid SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SO bad, but cannot afford one right now. So I just have a cheap stand mixer. And honestly, I have a feeling that is my problem, but I guess I'm just not ready to face that yet haha. But I do put ice packs around the bowl and everything seems to cool down very easily. Temp doesn't seem to be a huge problem because the meringue does cool down very nicely. It's just when I add the butter in that makes it soupy. And My butter is still cold also, it's just softened. I've tried to experiment with that because sometimes I'll get little bits of butter in it that I cannot get out no matter what I do. I've hear d other people having this problem, but I don't have a solution yet. icon_cool.gif

scp1127 Posted 14 Mar 2011 , 4:09pm

Check your thermometer. I have had four of them in the last two years and three were wrong... including the much praised CDN. The old Taylor is the only correct one. Maybe your white/ sugar mixture is off. Boil water and see if you hit 212 degrees. It sounds like you are doing it right, but if your mixer motor is throwing off heat, there may be nothing you can do.

sweetaudrey Posted 14 Mar 2011 , 4:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scp1127

Check your thermometer. I have had four of them in the last two years and three were wrong... including the much praised CDN. The old Taylor is the only correct one. Maybe your white/ sugar mixture is off. Boil water and see if you hit 212 degrees. It sounds like you are doing it right, but if your mixer motor is throwing off heat, there may be nothing you can do.




That could be it too. What temp exactely should my meringue be at before I add the butter? If you know an approximate or if you could take the temp of yours the next time you make it I would be oh so thankful!! icon_lol.gif

Rosie2 Posted 14 Mar 2011 , 4:50pm

Quick question: I take it that swiss merengue bc does not crust, right??

scp1127 Posted 14 Mar 2011 , 5:01pm

The meringue should be room temp. Sometimes it takes up to fourteen minutes to get there. If you do it too early, you will have a soupy mess. I was referring to the temp of the syrup in IMBC. Are you using SMBC or IMBC?

sweetaudrey Posted 14 Mar 2011 , 5:20pm

Ohh ok. Yeah, my meringue is always cool to the touch (not just the bowl, but the actual meringue). And I've always heard to bring the syrup to 240-245 so that's what I've been doing.

scp1127 Posted 14 Mar 2011 , 6:19pm

My recipes are 238 to 245, so they are right. What butter do you use? I only use Land O Lakes, so if it is another brand, hopefully someone will chime in.

sweetaudrey Posted 14 Mar 2011 , 7:05pm

I use whatever is real butter and on sale to be honest. On a TIGHT budget! icon_eek.gif

scp1127 Posted 14 Mar 2011 , 7:11pm

Not all butters are created equal. Just like off brand sugar and flour. Try Land O Lakes one time and see if your butter is not working. I know it is expensive, but you may need to adjust your price if thisis the only solution.

sweetaudrey Posted 14 Mar 2011 , 8:06pm

I deffinitely have used Land O' Lakes because sometimes that's all I can really find that is real butter and not Margarine. However, I haven't used it every time so I couldn't give an accurate response to what a difference it could have made. I'll try that though.

Has anyone heard that sometimes the butter will turn the bc to a soft consistancy and it will thicken up if you keep whipping it? Is this true? I've heard it several different times and I'm wondering if these people are just lucky or something?? icon_rolleyes.gif

FromScratchSF Posted 15 Mar 2011 , 4:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetaudrey

I deffinitely have used Land O' Lakes because sometimes that's all I can really find that is real butter and not Margarine. However, I haven't used it every time so I couldn't give an accurate response to what a difference it could have made. I'll try that though.

Has anyone heard that sometimes the butter will turn the bc to a soft consistancy and it will thicken up if you keep whipping it? Is this true? I've heard it several different times and I'm wondering if these people are just lucky or something?? icon_rolleyes.gif




No, I've never had that happen and I make a LOT of SMBC. Most people don't realize that European buttercreams rely on creating an emulsion that can't be forced or whipped if you don't allow science to do it's thing.

I just did a tutorial on my blog...

http://fromscratchsf.wordpress.com/

Jen

Rosie2 Posted 15 Mar 2011 , 11:14pm

Does SMBC crust at all??

MustardSeed Posted 16 Mar 2011 , 12:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scp1127

My recipes are 238 to 245, so they are right. What butter do you use? I only use Land O Lakes, so if it is another brand, hopefully someone will chime in.




While we are on the subject of IMBC I have a question. I hope I am replying correctly, still getting use to posting.

I am able to make a beautiful batch of IMBC. I have a KitchenAid pro 6 and use LOL butter. I am having a problem remixing the IMBC after it has chilled in the fridge (usually overnight). It separates. I have tried letting it sit out to room temp, taking the chill off in the microwave for 30 seconds at a time at 30%, using the paddle or a fork and it separates every time, looking like glumps of butter swimming through syrupy water. I would love to be able to make IMBC before making cakes and letting the kitchen cool down.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

FromScratchSF Posted 16 Mar 2011 , 12:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustardSeed

Quote:
Originally Posted by scp1127

My recipes are 238 to 245, so they are right. What butter do you use? I only use Land O Lakes, so if it is another brand, hopefully someone will chime in.



While we are on the subject of IMBC I have a question. I hope I am replying correctly, still getting use to posting.

I am able to make a beautiful batch of IMBC. I have a KitchenAid pro 6 and use LOL butter. I am having a problem remixing the IMBC after it has chilled in the fridge (usually overnight). It separates. I have tried letting it sit out to room temp, taking the chill off in the microwave for 30 seconds at a time at 30%, using the paddle or a fork and it separates every time, looking like glumps of butter swimming through syrupy water. I would love to be able to make IMBC before making cakes and letting the kitchen cool down.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.




Easy - don't refrigerate it. It's unnecessary, especially if it's only overnight.

Jen

MustardSeed Posted 16 Mar 2011 , 12:41am

Thanks Jen! I thought it would get soupy if left out.

FromScratchSF Posted 16 Mar 2011 , 12:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustardSeed

Thanks Jen! I thought it would get soupy if left out.




Nope! It'll only get soft if it's warm.

LisaPeps Posted 16 Mar 2011 , 1:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetaudrey

Quote:
Originally Posted by scp1127

This may sound odd, but what size is your mixer? I have Kitchenaids... a pro 6 and it comes together perfectly. If I am making another batch in my artisan right beside it, it takes forever. Reason: The artisan creates heat at the motor and makes the process take forever. The pro 6 stays cool. For the smaller mixer I have taken the CC advice and packed frozen vegetables around the outside of the bowl. And I wipe down the motor area periodically with a cool cloth. Another thing I do is my butter is still cold. I do the finger indent test (can push your finger in but there is still resistance). Your only problem is temperature. Sometimes you just have to find the odd quirks of your equipment.



I want a kitchenaid SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SO bad, but cannot afford one right now. So I just have a cheap stand mixer. And honestly, I have a feeling that is my problem, but I guess I'm just not ready to face that yet haha. But I do put ice packs around the bowl and everything seems to cool down very easily. Temp doesn't seem to be a huge problem because the meringue does cool down very nicely. It's just when I add the butter in that makes it soupy. And My butter is still cold also, it's just softened. I've tried to experiment with that because sometimes I'll get little bits of butter in it that I cannot get out no matter what I do. I've hear d other people having this problem, but I don't have a solution yet. icon_cool.gif




What attachment are you using in your mixer? I use IMBC exclusively for my buttercream. Originally I made it with a hand mixer and now I have just started making it with a stand mixer. I use the whisk attachment to whip the egg whites, keep the whisk for adding the sugar, keep the whisk when I add the butter and then once the butter is incorporated I change to the paddle. I have found that if you keep the whisk attachment on to finish mixing the buttercream, the buttercream starts to separate and looks like it has water seeping out of it. As soon as I switch to the paddle on high speed it comes together perfectly.

I tried to bring frozen IMBC (defrosted to room temp) back to fluffiness when I first had the stand mixer by using the whisk attachment, that had the exact same affect - separated. At that stage I didn't think to use the paddle, but I would think that the paddle would have brought it back to life.

Maybe that is your issue??

sweetaudrey Posted 16 Mar 2011 , 7:44am

I just use the regular beaters that come with the cheap stand mixer (like a hand mixer type beater). I was hoping that a whisk attachment for a hand mixer would fit in, but it doesn't. icon_cry.gif So, I'm stuck with the beaters. I was afraid that maybe this was my problem, but I don't have much of another option unless I use a whisk by hand.

scp1127 Posted 16 Mar 2011 , 1:11pm

Hey LisaPeps, you are the one who got me through my first batch of IMBC!!! I do change the blade to the scraper blade to add the butter.

FromScratch, thanks for the tip about leaving it out.

vickymacd Posted 16 Mar 2011 , 1:51pm

Stupid question here:

What is the big deal with the Swiss/Italian meringues?
I have never made them, and wonder, does it turn out like the meringue on a lemon meringue pie? Is it a baked frosting? Does it crust? What type cakes do you use it for? Does it have a taste or once again, is it like the pie one? And what is the difference between the two meringue tastes?

I would love to try it, but not sure what makes this so good. Also, is this a 'frosting' that you don't put any decorations on? You just use it as a frosting?
thank you for all my questions.

scp1127 Posted 16 Mar 2011 , 1:59pm

Much more qualified can answer better than I can. It is so refined, not a greasy sugar rush compared to grocery store icing. These are the european cooked recipes of the past making a resurgence in mainstream baking. They have always been the staples of pastry chefs.

luddroth Posted 16 Mar 2011 , 2:23pm

Vickymacd -- the big deal is that it is incredibly delicious, more sophisticated, and less sugary than the crisco/powdered sugar type of buttercream. No, it is not like the meringue on a pie -- it starts out that way, but then you beat a lot of butter into it and it becomes a delicious frosting. You can smooth it (with a warm knife or bench scraper), you can pipe with it (although it is softer than shortening-based buttercreams), it does not crust, it can be decorated with fondant accents or modelling chocolate. Because it is made with a lot of butter, it acts like butter would in heat and humidity. It should be chilled for storage, and on the cake, and brought to room temp before being served for best flavor. It will keep in the refrigerator for weeks and in the freezer for longer than that. It should be brought to room temp before being re-beaten.

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