Maybe my mother just taught me manners when it comes to offering up advice or responding to others, but those that do not think some of the responses are rude, condescending or negative, are just crudely unaware of how they come across. In my real job, I work with highly educated people that have degrees coming out of their ears. I did not have the finncial means to obtain those degrees but instead worked my way into the crowd and it KILLS them that I sit next to them, know just as much about the business and make as much money as they do. So, I can see the same type of attidtude from the professionals in this thread. Saying things like "That's the usual response I get when the person doesn't have a legit argument." Condescending. You gave your advice now leave it. It's not up to you to belittle someone into doing the right thing.

What I truly understand is the frustration of the home bakers not being able to get licensed without going through rediculous steps. I can go out and get a daycare license right now for a dozen children. Cook out of my home kitchen for those children, every day, up to three meals a day BUT not make a wedding cake. My children are my most prized possetions and the government is more strict about a kitchen for a cake than it is for 3 meals a day for children in someone else's home.

In my real job, I work in a Laboratory and am a certified educator in Infection Control. I can honestly tell you that people have more things they should be afraid of than a homebaked wedding cake. I have looked into getting my kitchen certified and there is one problem with the way my kitchen is structurally laid out. Structure? Really? The government is down right petty and that is the real frustration. Sanitary facilities should be the concern.

There is a lot of negativity in this world today and when someone comes asking a question and you have the answer, deliver the answer and not your attitude. When my 5 year old daughter comes to me and asks me if her birthday is tomorrow, I tell her that it's not until October. I take the calendar out and show her. I don't treat her like an idiot for not knowing and I certainly don't treat her like an idiot for being frustrated that she has to wait so long for her birthday cake! What may seem like an elementary thing to some of the professionals, is still al learning process for the rest of us and probably the reason we joined CC to begin with. Your guidance is appreciated, however, your snarky cynical attitudes are not.

wow, so rude.

stay away from this subject, all the old Know it Alls will comment, oops, see , already have

I'm sorry, I must be stupid and blind, I have read everyone's comments and I've yet to be offended or pissed off. Costumeczar, you said it best a few posts back; (and I'm paraphrasing)............ this question keeps coming up because the Newbie is just waiting on someone to pop up and say, "Oh, yes, go ahead and sell cakes under the table, I do it all the time".

If anyone is really dumb enough to admit it that, well then they need to be caught and slappled on the wrist by the IRS and they need to be Screamed at by everyone on CC that has done it right.

And, I think everyone is in agreement that the red tape you have to go thru to get legal is a crazy system, no one is agruing that point. But it's still something you have to go thru. Period. You can't avoid it. And that my Cake baking friends is the point everyone is trying to make, you have to jump thru the hoops or be illegal.

It's one or the other. No in betweens. No iffish or sort ofs.

It always amazes me when an illegal baker comes to the business forum and asks how legal they should be. How do you think the legal bakers are going to respond? Seriously...smh

I think it's also prudent to point out we're IMing each other here. We're not face to face and it's very easy to misunderstand the content of a statement. I use to sell real estate. I never, ever discussed contracts over the phone. You can not read body languege over the phone. So even though some might think there are some rude comments, in reality, perhaps someone could be trying to make a half hearted attempt at a joke. I guess my point is, everyone can read things in a different light.

And just for the sake of pointing out the obvious, this question is posted in the *Business Forum*. We're about *business* here.


PS, The Business Forum was declared a Rainbows-And-Puppies-Free-Zone years ago. You ask a question in here, you get a straight answer.

Someone argued awhile back that the government is too big. I'm not saying it isn't BUT- if more states instituted cottage laws, the government would have to be even BIGGER! For every person that is educated about food safety there are 5 or 10 with little to no knowlege on the subject. It is not a matter of common sense and wiping the counters clean. It is way more complicated than that. I took a course on safety and sanitation in culinary school that was several months long 5 days a week. I still have to work hard to keep up with changes to the law. If cottage laws are instituted- get ready for taxes to go up or education to get cut. The health department is already so backlogged everywhere, they can barely keep up with the restaurants and storefronts. Imagine if it became easy and cheap to make cakes legally from home. How many people would jump on that bandwagon? And then how many inspectors would they have to hire then? Just because your kitchen looks spotless does not mean there is not something unknown lurking there waiting to make someone sick! I hate the money I spend to get going with my business- I am still in that gap where I haven't made it back. It is causing financial hardship for my family. I sometimes wish I could sell from my home too, I get it. But the bigger picture is what I am trying to keep sight of. Taking that into consideration- I am against cottage laws.

I was one of those people that really didn't know the law. I started decorating cakes with my MIL, in the 70's it was always for family and friends, and never even seemed like an issue to become legal. I'm in Oregon, so it would be easy to become so. Maybe they paid for ingredients, mostly as gifts, but once in a while someone would give you a tip. I never knew this was illegal, seemed ridiculous to me until I read it on cc, that is was illegal. If you go to the wilton discussion forum, and many other cake sites, you aren't lectured about not being legal.I think CC has more professionals on the site, so they feel offended by these questions. What its taught me over the years, is that you do have to follow the laws, they have brought up issues that I never even considered. People are always asking me to make cakes for them, and its getting to be too much, too expensive. I don't charge, and they want to pay me, but I tell them i'm not legal and can't, they think its silly, and of course won't tell. I'm not worried about the people I bake for, I'm afraid of the only legal cake decorator in our town turning me in.

i was hatched in a barn and raised by a wolf that thought she was a cow, just so y'all know.

true 'nuff, the gov't has entirely too much control over a lot of business aspects. the reason seemingly arbitrary requirements are in place, however, is because when there were no laws people abused the (lack of) system. for example, the reason i'm only allowed to have two neon beers signs in my convenience store's windows is probably because someone out there had twenty, creating an eyesore. where did the two limit come from? who knows, someone just thought that was a fair and reasonable number and they had to draw the line somewhere.

i'm licensed in a lot of different convenience store areas, and it gets ridiculous sometimes. liquor, cigarettes, a food license to sell pre-packaged and sealed chips and pop, a vendor's license... there may be a few more i'm forgetting until i get the renewal for it. the licenses are expensive sometimes, but if you're good at what you do they shouldn't be *that* big of an issue once you're legit. if you go pro and can't pay for your license after you've been in business for awhile, well, maybe caking isn't your true calling, lol.

as i'll be slowing sliding into a cake bakery over the course of this year, i realize my store front situation is unique. if i didn't have a store, i'd definitely have to rethink opening up a business. i have noticed around here that a lot of new businesses are sharing space to obviously save costs. the ideal situation there is to find a business that compliments the bakery. while i'm getting a lot of positive feedback from my convenience store customers, i realize these people are going to be a lot of my initial customer base. as mentioned, word of mouth spreads quickly. and right now we have a few cakes we'll be working on just out of the house to donate with absolutely no compensation whatsoever, just offering a free preview of what's to come. there's nothing illegal about that.

i sell lottery tickets all the time. a person can win up to $599 (in ohio) without having to pay taxes on that. technically, you may have to report that as income, but it's impossible for the gov't to trace it at this point. just sayin'....

while i don't condone being illegal, i understand the philosophy, such as it is, behind it. i mean, it's cakes, right? not heroine. you know your place is clean and other than having some pencil-pusher tell you you're good to go, you're ready to make some money. you know your quality is there, your skillz are ready to be spotlighted. but, darn those pesky, seemingly aritrary laws and expensive licenses! not to mention the high start-up cost.... what's an otherwise law-abiding citizen to do?

well, i reckon that were i less than saintly and had every good intention in mind, my 'business model' would be something like checking into a cottage food law deal, and if that's not possible, sell some stuff under the table until i could afford the real thing. i might consider taking on a partner if i absolutely had to, or finding a retail space to share. (if it was me, i'd look for another entrepeneur that wanted sell cards and balloons and all that party crap that i have absolutely zero interest in.) hey, i'm not going to turn you in. that said, i understand only all too well how people operating these businesses out of their home hurts us who have gone the distance, expense and hassle of being legit. i also have a trophy/engraving shop, and these jokers set up in their garage are constantly undercutting my fair price. not that i don't get the customers back, but i lose some initial business, and that really just makes me... mad.

if you can accept the risk, do what you feel you have to do, i guess. sorry, i can't support that as a business, but i actually do understand the emotions and shady philosophy behind it. i also know that people will justify anything they want. i've always said people believe whatever fantasy makes them happy... even if it makes them miserable, meaning that in this case i have to fall on the side of the established professionals what did what they had to, pay out the nose for licenses and equipment, and suffer the gov't intrusion, silly rules, and flat-out personal offenses. hey, if it was easy, then everyone would do it.

here's the thing, though: you might that it's not quite so impossibly difficult as you think. honestly, most of these things begins with a few phone calls, and half of the gov't stuff can be done online these daze. not only that, but you might be surprised on the cost. is it essential that you have brand new equipment of everything? or can you start off with a few things, most of which you surely own already? do you have to be on the corner of the busiest part of town? do you have to use cardamom in every other recipe?

my food license which allows me to make food is up for renewal, it's about $175 this year. i have some extensive remodeling to do, and everything will have to be up to code. the worst part is stainless steel everything, but i'm a bargain shopper, an auction goer, and i know a lot of people that can help. it's still hard work and expensive, but i say if someone wants to be their own person free from the shackles of having some jerky boss and abiding by someone else's goofy rules, you should own a business the right way. the single benefit of going under the radar is saving money, and like i said, if your bakery can't support the expense, then perhaps baking cakes professionally isn't your bag. owning a small business is, after all, HARD! some people just don't have the stomach for it. i have two businesses and *still* work a crappy factory job (though it gets my wife out of having to work for someone else), and we still struggle more often than not. it's these personal sacrifices that most people can't handle in the long run.

my apologies for the long post.

I believe there are three points here being discussed as one. 1} Your state does not have a cottage law, you are not able to sell cakes out of your home kitchen period, no exceptions, sorry about you luck. 2] Your state does have cottage laws and you are able to sell cakes out of a home based kitchen and must in writing inform the client that the cake was indeed prepared in a non-inspected kitchen. In my state I am very limited to recipes I can use, where I can sell, and am not able to operate this business on any level with a licensed kitchen. You are informed of tax laws in your state and are following them. 3}You are working out of a licensed kitchen and are operating under the laws and guidelines of your state. You have worked hard to met the many requirements of a licensed kitchen, are taking advantage of the extended market available to you and are reaping the benefits of that market to pay for the many additional expenses. If you are cakin' and receiving money you will fit into ONE of these areas. It is not multiple choice guys. We can not pick parts of one and apply it to ourself simply because of our desires. I do believe we all know what is legal whether we agree with it or not, deal with it. It sucks if your state does not have a cottage law, and for some I know they feel it sucks because their state does. Abide my the laws that apply to you, but don't you dare tell me you have the right to ignore them. My son is serving to protect your rights to try to make changes, work at doing so. Yes I am a proud military mother, not so proud of those that choose to dish my country or government over a cake or two

dreamacres,

I thank your son for his service.

Jasonkraft-
I was just saying that the lack of knowlege about food safety on the part of some people who would like to sell from home would create a need for more inspectors/inspections which would create a need for more government funding. I do see your point about more people=more fees. I think the fees and standards might need to be high- just like they are for commercial/legal bakers. Someone was saying something along the lines of the government just wanting a piece of everything. I am saying that regulation and supervision is needed when it comes to public health. I also believe that the more a person invests financially and otherwise in something- the more committed they are to doing it right. If it is too easy, there will be a bunch of people with lax standards making people sick. For me, there are health concerns that stem from producing food for sale in the family kitchen- for anyone, no matter how clean. Home-based baking- sure- but at least require a seperate kitchen. When there is a potential to cause illness or death- a license should definitely be required.

Oh and here in Colorado at least- more fees do not equal more inspectors. We are so backlogged that an establishment can go 3 years without an inspection. If there is a complaint, then of course there is an inspection. Results are posted on a website, which is good overall. But say on the day of your inspection, someone leaves their coffee on a shelf above the prep table. Kinda yucky, I know, but an honest mistake that can happen to anyone. Well guess what? You just got a "Critical Violation" posted on the website with no detailed explaination. It is there with no chance for redemption for 3 years. But then again, maybe the general public doesn't read those things. Maybe just nerds like me, lol.

I haven't read through all the comments, but I thought I'd mention that when doing my taxes with Turbotax this year, they asked about any other income. And yes, "hobbies" was there. It totally made me think of forum threads like this.


But I do have a question, if a friend of mine wanted me to make a cake for her, and I gave her a list of all the ingredients, which she purchased, and then I made her a cake, the risk being taken is if poisoning or something happened and someone sued, correct?

If you are not someone's dependent there's really no reason not to file an income tax return, TurboTax costs $40 and it shouldn't take more than an hour for a simple return. If you are below the filing threshold, chances are good that you are leaving money on the table by not filing (thanks to the Earned Income Tax Credit).