Cake Request, I Thought It Was Funny
Decorating By aligotmatt Updated 31 Dec 2010 , 5:59am by jason_kraft
So if your company came to you on a random basis and said, well we need you to take home $500 less this week for the same amount of work--that'd be ok with you?
Of course not...but an employer/employee relationship (with an employment contract in force) is very different from a vendor/prospective customer relationship.
If a prospective customer wants to spend less, they get less, in terms of quantity, decorations, or extras. If they're not OK with scaling back and they are not willing to pay my listed prices, then they get nothing. Once the prospect realizes that my price per product ratio is not negotiable, they usually accept the listed price.
America is not the land of negotiated food prices at consumer level.
In some areas that's true, but there are still places in the US where food prices are negotiated regularly, especially in areas that have highly concentrated populations of recent immigrants. You will also often see negotiations at farmer's markets.
If you immediately get offended and break off negotiations instead of offering cheaper alternatives (which would of course be cheaper for you to make) or reiterating your existing prices (if they are already at the base price) then you will lose customers unnecessarily. Many of these negotiators are not attempting to devalue your work, that's just how they happen to practice commerce in their culture.
You will also often see negotiations at farmer's markets.
yeah, but when they walked into my shop, they could see they were NOT in a farmer's market.
That was just one example...I've also seen successful negotiations at mexican retail bakeries. My point was that customers who are used to negotiating for goods at local ethnic businesses will often carry that behavior with them to other small businesses, and the best way to deal with it is to politely reiterate your pricing policy.
We operate in a very ethnically diverse area (San Jose, CA) so we see this happen all the time.
You will also often see negotiations at farmer's markets.
yeah, but when they walked into my shop, they could see they were NOT in a farmer's market.
That was just one example...I've also seen successful negotiations at mexican retail bakeries. My point was that customers who are used to negotiating for goods at local ethnic businesses will often carry that behavior with them to other small businesses, and the best way to deal with it is to politely reiterate your pricing policy.
We operate in a very ethnically diverse area (San Jose, CA) so we see this happen all the time.
But again ..... the people who came in to my shop and wanted to dicker on price were NOT ethnic customers and I'm not a MExican retail bakery and its not a farmer's market. So while all that you suggest is true .... in the proper environment and in the proper circumstances .... none of it applies or applied to any of those who ever wanted to buy my cakes and catering at half price.
I can understand a client operating in a manner that is normal to them, and that circumstance would require a little education and sticking to our pricing, as you suggest. But i think the frustrating that we see in these threads so often is from people who do not fall into those categories, where bartering and bargaining for things is NOT part of their daily operation procedure.
Brides are also advised by wedding magazines to negotiate with their vendors. It's a common part of any "how to cut your costs" article. I wouldn't be insulted, it never hurts to ask, but you can just say no, you don't negotiate. I've been asked if I would do discounts for cash over credit cards before, so it's not unheard of for people to ask.
But i think the frustrating that we see in these threads so often is from people who do not fall into those categories, where bartering and bargaining for things is NOT part of their daily operation procedure.
I can certainly see why it would be frustrating, but unless you know the customer personally it's difficult to say what their daily operating procedure is when it comes to buying goods and services. I know (for lack of a better word) "non-ethnic" people who attempt to negotiate all the time, it's simply how they do business.
I have never owned a bakery but I owned several tanning salons. People would comment on the prices often and tell me "XYZ" down the street charges this. As if I would change my pricing to accommodate them. Um, sorry no, feel free to visit "XYZ". It always offended me, I have NEVER gone to walmart and tried to negotiate the price of a lb of ground beef. It is what it is
...people who attempt to negotiate all the time, it's simply how they do business.
It's called being cheap. 
But seriously, they like to think they're being frugal. There is a difference. Frugal is saying, "How can we lower the budget on this? How can we get the most bang for our buck." Cheap is saying, "This cake can't cost you more than thirty bucks to make, so I'll give you $32.50."
Jason, while all your caveats are true to some extent, nonononononono.
When you give your base price on the phone straight up and they then book an appointment to come int and discuss in detail their designer cake and expect you to make their dream come true for what they can afford which isn't even close to the base price quote--that's NOT amore.
That's a sham and a shame and a waste of time and is insulting. She's a freaking school teacher --she knew better.
On the phone the price quote was the deal breaker and she tried to be oblivious to the cold hard facts of life. What? She knew my price.
Just say, 'spontaneous diarrhea' three times fast and laugh about it.
Don't stick up for her--she totally blew it.
When you give your base price on the phone straight up and they then book an appointment to come int and discuss in detail their designer cake and expect you to make their dream come true for what they can afford which isn't even close to the base price quote--that's NOT amore.
I quote base prices on the phone/email all the time, along with typical prices for cakes with premium decorations. We don't make in-person appointments except for tastings (which are paid for by the customer) and before the tasting we have a pretty good idea of what the customer wants.
I suppose things would be different if I regularly had customers change their mind or lower their budget at the tasting, but even then the customers pay for the tasting so we are still compensated.
When I'm a customer I do my best to get the lowest price possible, and sometimes I have no idea what the cost structure is for a specific product or service or how much time is actually involved. If I have an unrealistic expectation of the cost of a product (not unusual in the cake world given recent TV shows) and I try pulling the price near or below cost, I would expect the vendor to politely explain the components of their pricing at a high level (i.e. this decoration will take roughly X number of hours to make, that's why it is priced $Y more than a cheaper alternative).
That's exactly what I do with my customers when they ask why our cakes cost so much, and it's a win-win: if the customer is rational they will accept the given price, and if they are irrational then they will go somewhere else.
Cheap is saying, "This cake can't cost you more than thirty bucks to make, so I'll give you $32.50."
You're absolutely right, there are some customers that just won't accept the true cost of a high-quality custom cake...I am more than happy to direct those customers to the nearest Costco. 
Although our bakery tends to have more leverage than most, since alternative products are often fatal to our customers.
Thanks for all the laughs. This thread reminds me of an email I got over the summer from a bride requesting a free tasting. (My tastings are $25 and if they book with me, the $25 is applied to their balance). She then wrote back and said " It would be nice of you if you wouldn't charge us as we are shopping for a house in the county" (BTW, you can't get a garage in my county for under $300,00.) I wrote back that I am running a business not a charity.
I've fallen for this more times than I can remember although I am trying to act as though made of sterner stuff and say no!
While it is true that the world (more or less) is in an economic crisis, the fact is, that when making a wedding people have a budget and calculated into that budget is photographer, caterer, gowns, shoes etc etc and a wedding cake! therefore they have to be prepared to pay what is quoted or go elsewhere. (or they could come to me and I'll give in.........!)
http://cakecentral.com/modules.php?name=gallery&file=displayimage&pid=1239120
Just sayin'.
Hilarious!! 
ROFL 
I had a call this week and I quoted $4 a serving buttercream and after that she says "Oh well the bride wants a good tasting cake for an inexpensive price." And I just laughed, "Oh does she?" Call 1-800-getalife.
Since when would you drop your price just to make a good tasting cake versus oh a bad tasting cake? When did the scale go from good tasting cake to 'super' good tasting down to 'not the best' tasting?
Here's what I would love to see -
One of you pros getting here and telling us you sent the pic of the twinkie wedding cake, and saying - This is what I can do for $3 a serve."
Here's a link to the pic, just in case someone has not seen it yet -
http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:73035
Theresa
We have a friend who did this for a groom's cake. They also got a gorgeous wedding cake from her, but they wanted this for the groom's cake, and paid at least that amount for it. But I do have to say, it was adorable.
I did a tradtional wedding cake for a couple. The groom's favorite snack was Hostess Ho Ho's, so I did a 2 tier "cake for him (around a 2 tier dummy) with a Ho Ho bride & groom on top. To get the bride's white dress and the groom's shirt, I dipped them in white candy melts. The groom loved it!
Jason, the anecdote was about my experience and how I do business.
Are there 10,000 rabbit trails we can wander down? Sure.
Well I already went down one with that freaking cheapskate chick who had the nerve to set up a cake consult knowing she would not even cover a base price much less designer detailing.....
I just think it's hilarious. Some people have HUGE cajones!
I had a lady having a 2nd BD party for her daughter and she wanted something "over the top". yep, you know where this is going. 
She wanted a 3D castle to serve 125 people and her budget......$150.
Now, she was a pastor's wife and the party was for everyone at the church, which she told me was about 50 people. ? Then why do you want a cake for 125? She said "what can I do to get this cake?" My response, "cut the number of guests."
Well, her budget was for a sheet cake. We talked several times and thankfully, she never called back. I think I know why her daughters 1st BD cake was the disaster she told me it was.
Yknow what though. Some people do need to crash & burn once when they are booking a cake. It really does happen all the time, except to Jason of course.
Then the client goes & either gets someone to dumpster dive a cake for them or gets for real with the money. And because of how the client acted with the caker they can't go back there because they burned the bridge with thier outlandish behavior. They usually have enough sense to avoid making a further ass of themselves. Or maybe it's the fiance that holds them back from a second go 'round with yah. Thank God either way.
I have an even better story. I don't think I've told it in a while.
So my girlfriend is doing her first wedding cake and I'm helping her--30 years ago this--so we're doing all this stuff & she says--"Oh can you believe someone would quote "This Much" for this cake (whatever it was at the time) --I'm horrified--She says the brides parents were likewise horrified. I'm like "Oh my soul no way!" She's, "Oh yeah because a friend of the groom's family quoted a zillion for this." We're laughing.
I start thinking---sh*t who is this chick marrying so I ask my caker friend So I'm like "Yo! That was me quoted a jillion for a cake not this under nourished weeny little kindergarten newby cake but this such and such cake with ten thousand bells and whistles, love birds, daisies, lace points and fountain.
So that's an example of people crashing & burning getting a quote then settling--but they got a whole new caker. Who didn't have a clue what to do either I might add. People do that all the time.
I have an even better story. I don't think I've told it in a while.
So my girlfriend is doing her first wedding cake and I'm helping her--30 years ago this--so we're doing all this stuff & she says--"Oh can you believe someone would quote "This Much" for this cake (whatever it was at the time) --I'm horrified--She says the brides parents were likewise horrified. I'm like "Oh my soul no way!" She's, "Oh yeah because a friend of the groom's family quoted a zillion for this." We're laughing.
I start thinking---sh*t who is this chick marrying so I ask my caker friend So I'm like "Yo! That was me quoted a jillion for a cake not this under nourished weeny little kindergarten newby cake but this such and such cake with ten thousand bells and whistles, love birds, daisies, lace points and fountain.
So that's an example of people crashing & burning getting a quote then settling--but they got a whole new caker. Who didn't have a clue what to do either I might add. People do that all the time.
HAHAHAHA!!! That is SO funny! A fried of mine and I did the same thing, sorta. I quoted a big price for a cake and they couldn't pay, so I referred them to her. She agreed to do the cake for their tiny budget to get "practice", then called me to help her with the gumpaste leaves! My 3 year old daughter and I were at her house until 3 in the morning. I mentioned that I had turned down a cake that was just like it, but it was a very popular design so I didn't really think much of it.
We watched Disney movies and made wired leaves and iced the cakes that she had crumb coated that were leaning and bulgy. The next week she showed me a picture of the bride and groom cutting the cake that they gave her, and it was my bride I had rejected! I told the bride to tell the friend I had referred her, but she hadn't!
Basically I did everything but bake the cake, and I got $100 for it, but my friend made about $250 and the cake was for 250. I quoted over $800 and the girl did it for $450.
I won't budge anymore on my prices, but I will suggest either less servings or more simple design to fit the budget. I would probably be insulted just because I would feel my work was being unappreciated.
And just so you know, my company did tell all the employees to take a $500 a month pay reduction, still do the same amount of work (we have heavy work loads) and NO raises for 2 years. We had no choice, in this economy we had no other companies to hire us. I ended up moonlighting to make up the difference (held 4 jobs for 2 years) since the phone, elec, grocer and morgage wouldn't lower their prices. 
And just so you know, my company did tell all the employees to take a $500 a month pay reduction, still do the same amount of work (we have heavy work loads) and NO raises for 2 years.
And yet we're supposed to be uber-impressed when a CEO doesn't take his usual $500,000 bonus on top of his 5 million dollar annual salary because he's concerned about the 'tough times' and wants to 'give back' to the company. Reading your comments just twists my stomach into knots and makes me want to punch someone in your honor.
since the phone, elec, grocer and morgage wouldn't lower their prices.
Funny you mention that...I routinely negotiated with my phone company (when I used to pay for phone service), and I still negotiate with my cable company about once a year to get a lower price. Obviously electric utility companies don't have to negotiate because they have a monopoly, but some mortgage companies have also been lowering their prices via loan modification.
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