usmdesigner Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 2:41pm
post #1 of

So I'm using this recipe from this site:

http://cakecentral.com/recipes/1972/durable-cake-for-3d-and-wedding-cakes

Everyone LOVES this cake, but my problem is that, while it is decently firm, it is not firm enough. (Letting it cool for 1 hour on a wire rack)

I watch some cake shows on TV, and they are taking rectangle shaped cakes that have been edged off, and picking them up and flopping them down, and everyone still raves about the cake tasting good! This is the firmness I'm trying to achieve.

I'm still trying to practice for my daughters 1st birthday, because I want to make her a cake myself to say it was from dad.

Can anyone give me any pointers to make this cake more firm without ruining the taste? I made a 12" square cake with this recipe, and there would be no way I could take this cake and flip it and flop it down. I have to be careful when I move it. The corners usually sag a bit as well, making me lose the integrity of the square edges.

Surely there is something I can add for firmness. I'll be adding fondant on it and all that jazz instead of using icing on top.

Any suggestions would be must appreciated!!

29 replies
mamawrobin Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 2:53pm
post #2 of

I cut the oil down to 1/4 cup or omit it. Less oil will make a firmer cake. The WASC recipe that I use has 1 cup of sour cream and no oil and it's awesome.

7yyrt Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 3:31pm
post #3 of

Are you trying to flip them right from the cooling racks? Those cakes on TV are chilled to a fare-thee-well, not at room temperature.
(Also the cakes on the challenges are over-baked on purpose to make them more sturdy.)
Imageto CC
More ladies and gents will be by soon, I am sure.

usmdesigner Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 3:37pm
post #4 of

I watch cake boss and just started DVR'ing another show. Both shows are making cakes for people to eat, and not competing.

I will see them put the cake in the freezer after they buttercream them, but I haven't seen an episode yet where they say they bake the cake and put it in the freezer before the buttercream. So I assumed it is the recipe that is holding the cake together like it does.

I'll try my next one with no oil mamawrobin and see how that does.

Any advice on the edges drooping, or this just due to not preparing the pan well before I stick it in the oven?

I think my wife is getting aggravated with all my "attempts" and different recipe I'm trying. But I'm trying to get through to her that it may take some more to get it right. I just have zero cooking knowledge, so it's not like I can figure it out real quick. icon_sad.gif

icer101 Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 3:51pm
post #5 of

so , mamarobin, what is the exact recipe you use, if you will share. I use cake mix extenders. wasc(all ways) and bake from scratch also. will you post your awesome cake recipe. tia

cakeythings1961 Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 4:05pm
post #6 of

I know what you mean. Buddy picks up those cakes by the edges to positions them....they can't possibly be moist, right???

Less oil helps a lot. I've been told by other CCers that they stack and carve cake mixes without adjustments, but this just doesn't work for me at all. NO WAY. NO HOW. I have to use cake mix extenders or cut down the oil or both. And this is true of my scratch recipes, also!

usmdesigner Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 4:13pm
post #7 of

I would try scratch, but I can't find cake flour in our walmarts. All they have is self rising and all purpose. And I'm not pro enough to go ordering offline for fondants and ingredients.

I guess that's why I am only working with marshmellow fondant instead of other recipes, because I can't find Glycerine and Unflavored Gelatin. We have a Micheal's, but it doesn't have any of this either.

usmdesigner Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 4:17pm
post #8 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakeythings1961

I know what you mean. Buddy picks up those cakes by the edges to positions them....they can't possibly be moist, right???




You are right! Every time they show someone saying how GREAT the cake is and that it is the best they have EVER tasted!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cakeythings1961

NO WAY. NO HOW.




You sound just like Buddy's mom.. lol.

cakeythings1961 Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 4:38pm
post #9 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakeythings1961

NO WAY. NO HOW.




You sound just like Buddy's mom.. lol.[/quote]

icon_lol.gif My kids would probably tell you that I'm like her--just a tad bossy.....er, umm....opinionated! icon_lol.gificon_lol.gif

shannycakers Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 4:41pm

WASC cake recipe with no oil is as firm as it gets unless you use a pound cake, which is pretty much what buddy uses all the time. He aslo DOES refrigerate or freeze his cakes, they bring them right from the frig when he slaps them down.. there is no way a large cake shop like his dont freeze there cakes.

daltonam Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by usmdesigner

I would try scratch, but I can't find cake flour in our walmarts. All they have is self rising and all purpose. And I'm not pro enough to go ordering offline for fondants and ingredients.

I guess that's why I am only working with marshmellow fondant instead of other recipes, because I can't find Glycerine and Unflavored Gelatin. We have a Micheal's, but it doesn't have any of this either.




Gosh are you in the boondocks too????
Well, I guess I'm a step ahead of you, Walmart carries Swans Down cake flour, Winn-Dixie carries that & JUST started carrying King Arthur's cake flour. Unflavored gelatin SHOULD be on the same aisle as "Jello" gelatin products at your grocery store. We JUST got glycerin at the Michael's here, so maybe you could ask the store about getting it??

As for your recipe, again I agree with the oil....it's the oil or the sour cream, both in those amounts aren't needed. (I'd keep the sour cream)

my "recipe" when I'm using a box cake is

Duncan Hines Classic White
4 eggs
1 1/3 cups milk
2 T oil
pudding (small box)
2 T heaping sour cream
my extracts

I have done minimal sculpting with it, but I didn't have any problems when I did. (cold cakes are (to me) easier to carve)


I have used the WASC & I don't remember having a problem with it, I just don't need that much cake a every time I bake. (If I'm remembering correctly)

Good Luck.

usmdesigner Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by daltonam

Quote:
Originally Posted by usmdesigner

I would try scratch, but I can't find cake flour in our walmarts. All they have is self rising and all purpose. And I'm not pro enough to go ordering offline for fondants and ingredients.

I guess that's why I am only working with marshmellow fondant instead of other recipes, because I can't find Glycerine and Unflavored Gelatin. We have a Micheal's, but it doesn't have any of this either.



Gosh are you in the boondocks too????
Well, I guess I'm a step ahead of you, Walmart carries Swans Down cake flour, Winn-Dixie carries that & JUST started carrying King Arthur's cake flour. Unflavored gelatin SHOULD be on the same aisle as "Jello" gelatin products at your grocery store. We JUST got glycerin at the Michael's here, so maybe you could ask the store about getting it??

As for your recipe, again I agree with the oil....it's the oil or the sour cream, both in those amounts aren't needed. (I'd keep the sour cream)

my "recipe" when I'm using a box cake is

Duncan Hines Classic White
4 eggs
1 1/3 cups milk
2 T oil
pudding (small box)
2 T heaping sour cream
my extracts

I have done minimal sculpting with it, but I didn't have any problems when I did. (cold cakes are (to me) easier to carve)


I have used the WASC & I don't remember having a problem with it, I just don't need that much cake a every time I bake. (If I'm remembering correctly)

Good Luck.




Yes, I live in Mississippi. I will ask Micheals about the glyerine. At your store, was it in the cake isle? The gelatin I really had no clue in the first place where to look, so that information helps a lot.

We do have a WinnDixie, so I will try them next. It doesn't seem like I live in the boonies since we have 2 Walmarts in 1 city, but I looked those flours over for 5 minutes thinking I might have just missed it, and couldn't find cake flour. Those names might help out though. Thanks for the tips.

usmdesigner Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shannycakers

WASC cake recipe with no oil is as firm as it gets unless you use a pound cake, which is pretty much what buddy uses all the time. He aslo DOES refrigerate or freeze his cakes, they bring them right from the frig when he slaps them down.. there is no way a large cake shop like his dont freeze there cakes.




Ah, good to know! I will also start doing this then as well. Maybe that will make cutting it easier.

I also may try to move to round cakes instead of square ones, since I am having trouble with the drooping and edges being really off.

Foxicakes Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 6:19pm

The Swan's Down cake flour generally is on the lowest shelf and near the cake mixes in a Wal-Mart. And, that is in every one I have ever been in looking for it. Further, in the grocery stores, I believe it is in the same place. For whatever reason they don't put it with the flours. I guess because it comes in a red box (with white writing on it) instead of a "bag" like most flours do....HTH

Mimi209 Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 6:43pm

I changed the way I mix my cakes a few weeks ago, I didn't tell my daughter, and she said right away that she could tell something was different because the cake was firmer than it used to be and much easier to move around.

I use the following:

Pillsbury Moist Supreme White cake mix
1 cup of milk
3 eggs
1/3 cup of oil
1 small pkg of vanilla pudding

If it seems to be a little thick when I am mixing it I will add extra milk.
However it takes longer than 30 - 35 minutes to cook, it takes around 40 - 45 minutes at 350
I don't know if the milk and pudding make it take longer or what.

In the end the cake comes out moist and firm.

usmdesigner Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 6:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxicakes

The Swan's Down cake flour generally is on the lowest shelf and near the cake mixes in a Wal-Mart. And, that is in every one I have ever been in looking for it. Further, in the grocery stores, I believe it is in the same place. For whatever reason they don't put it with the flours. I guess because it comes in a red box (with white writing on it) instead of a "bag" like most flours do....HTH




Thanks Foxicakes, I'll check again and may sure to scan for those boxes. I'm pretty sure I did not look through all the boxes that was there.

I just did an online search for unflavored gelatin and it came up with nothing for the Walmarts near me, nor did it find anything for the "online" Walmart as well. Plenty of flavored ones though, lol.

usmdesigner Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimi209

I changed the way I mix my cakes a few weeks ago, I didn't tell my daughter, and she said right away that she could tell something was different because the cake was firmer than it used to be and much easier to move around.

I use the following:

Pillsbury Moist Supreme White cake mix
1 cup of milk
3 eggs
1/3 cup of oil
1 small pkg of vanilla pudding

If it seems to be a little thick when I am mixing it I will add extra milk.
However it takes longer than 30 - 35 minutes to cook, it takes around 40 - 45 minutes at 350
I don't know if the milk and pudding make it take longer or what.

In the end the cake comes out moist and firm.




Do you think egg whites VS the whole egg is having a factor on my cake's firmness? I'm noticing no one is saying they are using egg whites.

mpetty Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 6:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimi209

I changed the way I mix my cakes a few weeks ago, I didn't tell my daughter, and she said right away that she could tell something was different because the cake was firmer than it used to be and much easier to move around.

I use the following:

Pillsbury Moist Supreme White cake mix
1 cup of milk
3 eggs
1/3 cup of oil
1 small pkg of vanilla pudding

If it seems to be a little thick when I am mixing it I will add extra milk.
However it takes longer than 30 - 35 minutes to cook, it takes around 40 - 45 minutes at 350
I don't know if the milk and pudding make it take longer or what.

In the end the cake comes out moist and firm.




May I ask what kind of milk you use? I made two 6" and two 8" layers just today using Pillsbury Moist Supreme Strawberry and the Durable recipe usmdesigner quoted, and 2 of the layers cracked and crumbled after I cooled and removed them from the pans. Glad to see your recipe because I swore I'd stick to cake dummies after today's frustration!

Scarlets-Cakes Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by usmdesigner

I would try scratch, but I can't find cake flour in our walmarts. All they have is self rising and all purpose. And I'm not pro enough to go ordering offline for fondants and ingredients.

I guess that's why I am only working with marshmellow fondant instead of other recipes, because I can't find Glycerine and Unflavored Gelatin. We have a Micheal's, but it doesn't have any of this either.




This recipe for MMF is the BEST!

http://cakecentral.com/recipes/3183/rhondas-ultimate-mmf

Mimi209 Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 7:30pm

usmdesigner: I haven't ever used just egg whites because with adding vanilla pudding to the cake mix, the mix is no longer completely white, so for me it doesn't matter that the yolk changes the "white" cake mix to "light yellow". I don't really know if using the whole egg will make a difference but it would be worth a try on your next cake.


mpetty: I use whole milk (Vitamin D). I cool my smaller cakes for 10 minutes before I remove them from the pan and 15 minutes for bigger cakes. I put parchment paper on top of the cake and turn it over then turn it back over on another piece of parcement paper so it is sitting on the flat bottom. I got that tip from my cousin who used to make wedding cakes.

usmdesigner Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 7:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlets-Cakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by usmdesigner

I would try scratch, but I can't find cake flour in our walmarts. All they have is self rising and all purpose. And I'm not pro enough to go ordering offline for fondants and ingredients.

I guess that's why I am only working with marshmellow fondant instead of other recipes, because I can't find Glycerine and Unflavored Gelatin. We have a Micheal's, but it doesn't have any of this either.



This recipe for MMF is the BEST!

http://cakecentral.com/recipes/3183/rhondas-ultimate-mmf




Thanks! I'm very happy with the current MMF recipe I use now though, but I did want to try another type of fondant besides a MMF. This is why I was trying to find all these non existent ingrediants icon_biggrin.gif

usmdesigner Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 7:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimi209

usmdesigner: I haven't ever used just egg whites because with adding vanilla pudding to the cake mix, the mix is no longer completely white, so for me it doesn't matter that the yolk changes the "white" cake mix to "light yellow". I don't really know if using the whole egg will make a difference but it would be worth a try on your next cake.




Yeah, I'm not that technical to actually care about the color of the cake. (maybe one day I will?? lol) I just thought the egg whites instead of the yolk had a specific purpose towards the outcome other than color.

Apti Posted 26 Oct 2010 , 7:44pm

Use the entire egg, not just the whites.

Unflavored gelatin is sold in every grocery store in the USA. Ask for KNOX Gelatin. (Google KNOX gelatin to get a photo of the box)

For my WASC, I use the recipe you wrote at the beginning of this thread. I don't use milk or unflavored gelatin in my WASC.

Here is an excellent doctored cake mix recipe that tastes fabulous from Janette Pohlman's site for "pound cake" (uses cream cheese):

Cream cheese pound cake
1 pkg (18.25 ounce) fudge or white cake mix
1 package (8 oz.) cream cheese, at room temperature
1/2 cup water
1/2 cup vegetable oil
1/4 cup granulated sugar
4 large eggs
2 teaspoons pure vanilla extract
Cooking Instructions

http://www.pohlmanscakes.com/recipe.php?name=Cream+cheese+pound+cake&id=15

Debi2 Posted 27 Oct 2010 , 12:32am

usmdesigner, the Unflavored Gelatin I use is the brand name of Knox. It's in an orange and white box. If you can't find it near the jello, try checking by the pectins they sell for preserving, I've seen it in that area before too. I've also read here on CC that you can substitute light corn syrup for the glycerine in the fondant recipes. Hope this helps, good luck!

daltonam Posted 27 Oct 2010 , 12:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by usmdesigner

Yes, I live in Mississippi. I will ask Micheals about the glyerine. At your store, was it in the cake isle? The gelatin I really had no clue in the first place where to look, so that information helps a lot.

We do have a WinnDixie, so I will try them next. It doesn't seem like I live in the boonies since we have 2 Walmarts in 1 city, but I looked those flours over for 5 minutes thinking I might have just missed it, and couldn't find cake flour. Those names might help out though. Thanks for the tips.




Well noooo way that's the boonies!!!!! I have to DRIVE to the next town (city) for my stuff, so I'm the one in the boonies & the cornfields too!!!!

GOOD GOOD LUCK & I'm glad you asked this question, I'm taking notes!!!

JanH Posted 27 Oct 2010 , 6:10am

Cake Boss and Sponge Cake:

http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-659447-.html

http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-662235-.html
(This thread has recipes.)

HTH

chocolatestone Posted 27 Oct 2010 , 8:05am

I watch Cake Boss everyday and I also think that the cakes he uses are partially frozen. There's no way you could handles such large sheets of cakes like that without them falling apart. In one episode he complains about cakes layers that weren't taken out of the freezer on time. Also if you watch him trim the cakes you can see the effort he puts in which kinda suggests that the cake layers are frozen. I also trim my cakes partially frozen so that it doesn't fall apart at the edges. It also makes the cake moist somehow. I never decorate a cake after it's cooled from the oven I always bake and freeze a week in advanced or at least 24 hours. I do this because I like a more softer delicate cake rather than a dense cake. If you want to carve the cake then use a cake made with butter since those cakes are more sturdier than cakes made with oil. It will also help to carve the cake while it is partially frozen. I learned that the hard way.

usmdesigner Posted 27 Oct 2010 , 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Debi2

usmdesigner, the Unflavored Gelatin I use is the brand name of Knox. It's in an orange and white box. If you can't find it near the jello, try checking by the pectins they sell for preserving, I've seen it in that area before too. I've also read here on CC that you can substitute light corn syrup for the glycerine in the fondant recipes. Hope this helps, good luck!




From what I am reading, "glucose" syrup can be substituted out for corn syrup, but they say glycerin is a must (although some say it is optional)

I checked Micheals yesterday (called) and they said they have Glycerin used to make soap, but since I really have no clue about glycerin, I didn't know if that is what these recipes are calling for.

I did find Knox Unflavored Gelatin at walmart and found the Swans Cake Flour as well.

So all I'm really trying to track down at this point is the glycerin. Anyone that can help with the glycerin question?

Also, can you get Tylose around anywhere like Walmart, or is this just an online only type deal. I was thinking about maybe trying out gumpaste, and I see the recipe calls for Tylose. That is one of those Glycerin questions, lol. I'm so clueless.

Debi2 Posted 27 Oct 2010 , 2:38pm

I got my glycerine from the pharmacy at Walmart...try that!

usmdesigner Posted 27 Oct 2010 , 2:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Debi2

I got my glycerine from the pharmacy at Walmart...try that!




I was actually in the pharmacy and saw that! But like I said, I wasn't sure these are all the same thing, lol. I mean, it was "liquid glycerin laxative". Why would I put that in a fondant recipe....

The only one I have seen has been online Wilton glycerin. This is the only one I figured was safe, lol.

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