Fondant Animal Figures Cost

Decorating By maendings Updated 2 Oct 2010 , 2:52pm by 7yyrt

maendings Posted 28 Sep 2010 , 9:56pm
post #1 of 21

I made some fondant figures for my daughter's baby shower cake-Pooh, Tigger, Roo, Eore and Piglet. I do bake professionally but haven't had to call for those kind of cake decorations and was wondering how to price them. Cost of product plus $10 (?) and hour to make them then double it or how do most of you include that in to the cost of the cake. It as a 14 inch petal, 10 in round and 2 6in + 4in for the honey pot.

I have to do this at work because I haven't been able to log in to CC for almost a year at home. It just won't let me on and I've tried to contact them several times. I'll try to send a picture to my email and see if I can upload it.

Thank you
Colleen

20 replies
maendings Posted 29 Sep 2010 , 1:52pm
post #2 of 21

here's a picture of the Pooh cake with the figures- well i can't get the picture to attach but if you click on photos it's there.

TexasSugar Posted 29 Sep 2010 , 4:08pm
post #3 of 21

Because of copyright laws you couldn't actually sell those characters.

For other figures, I'd figure expense, plus how much time it took you and how much you want to make an hour, then also add in how much profit you want to make off of it.

As far as including it in the cost of the cake it would depend on what other decorations are being doing. Is making a figure saving me time from having to do other detailed decorations or am I doing the figure and still doing alot of other work on the cake. How big are the figure(s)? Are they are small and quick and easy or very detailed and time consuming?

maendings Posted 29 Sep 2010 , 6:32pm
post #4 of 21

Do you mean if someone ordered a cake and wanted a Pooh, Spongebob, Mickey Mouse or any children's theme's you can't do them???????? I don't quite understand that. The companies expect you to buy their books, products, ect. but don't want people to enjoy seeing them on a cake because someone else is trying to 'copy' them. They aren't 'exact', they are only someone elses version of them. No one can make an original if it's already been made, only your take on it. That's like seeing a recipe for a salad in a magazine but you can't make it EXACTLY like it or you are infringing on that person's original salad.
And that's my humble opinion! I'm sure there have been a zillion posts on this subject but I think it's a bunch 0f......................!

Colleen

angelcakes5 Posted 29 Sep 2010 , 6:47pm
post #5 of 21

I know they are really cracking down on the copyright laws. I know it stinks but its the law. Nothing we can do.

aswartzw Posted 29 Sep 2010 , 7:09pm
post #6 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by healingforce1

Do you mean if someone ordered a cake and wanted a Pooh, Spongebob, Mickey Mouse or any children's theme's you can't do them???????? I don't quite understand that. The companies expect you to buy their books, products, ect. but don't want people to enjoy seeing them on a cake because someone else is trying to 'copy' them. They aren't 'exact', they are only someone elses version of them. No one can make an original if it's already been made, only your take on it. That's like seeing a recipe for a salad in a magazine but you can't make it EXACTLY like it or you are infringing on that person's original salad.
And that's my humble opinion! I'm sure there have been a zillion posts on this subject but I think it's a bunch 0f......................!

Colleen




It's the law. Tough. Your personal opinion won't matter one iota if you get taken to court over it.

Have the customer buy the figurine to place on the cake.

TexasSugar Posted 29 Sep 2010 , 7:19pm
post #7 of 21

If you look at the Wilton pans they are stamped for home use only. And the company that own the characters pay alot of money every year to make sure their characters are protected from being copied, even not direct copies, such as Minnie with a different color dress.

There are many threads about this subject you can find on the board.

TrixieTreats Posted 29 Sep 2010 , 7:32pm
post #8 of 21

I never really thought about this...and not that I have nearly enough aptitude to do this, but do 3D sculpted cakes (not using the shaped pans, hand sculpted cakes) also apply in this way? Does representing their likeness across the board apply the same way?

TexasSugar Posted 30 Sep 2010 , 4:43pm
post #9 of 21

You can not legally reproduce a copyrighted image (think broader than just character cakes) in any way shape or form. You can not do a color flow transfer, frozen buttercream transfer, chocolate transfer, free handed drawing, sculpted cake, figure or home made edible image and so on.

From my understanding the only legal ways is to purchase a kit and do it exactly as is stated (think about what grocery stores do), purchase an edible image or have the customer purchase toys and put them on a background that matches the theme.

There are many posts here about the subject that goes in to alot greater detail about it.

zespri Posted 30 Sep 2010 , 7:30pm
post #10 of 21

How long has pooh been around? Copyrights expire eventually, I would have thought pooh had been around for a looonnngggg time. I thought it was 100 years, but I just checked wikipedia, and it's different for every country.

7yyrt Posted 30 Sep 2010 , 7:37pm
post #11 of 21

Copyrights come up for renewal, if the company renews the copyright they can keep it up basically forever.

zespri Posted 30 Sep 2010 , 7:43pm
post #12 of 21

ahh... that explains it. I suspect america is probably the strictest country in the world with that kind of thing, given how much litigation goes on.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 7yyrt

Copyrights come up for renewal, if the company renews the copyright they can keep it up basically forever.


sillywabbitz Posted 30 Sep 2010 , 8:03pm
post #13 of 21

On the note of general figure pricing. I took a figure class recently through the local cake club and we asked our teacher what she charges for her figures. The large one (the mummy) she charges $17 on top of the cost of the cake. He's a rice krispy treat base and the smaller ones are $4 each are solid fondant. I believe she said she charges more if they are sold by themselves (not on a cake or cupcake).

Here are the ones I made in class so you can get an idea for how big the figures were.
http://www.keeponcaking.com/

Like with anything I think cost is regional as well. Some people would charge more and some less. A lot of it is how long it takes you to make them.

sweettreat101 Posted 1 Oct 2010 , 8:21am
post #14 of 21

From what I understand is you can make them for your family but you cannot financially benefit from their characters likeness. I know if sucks that's why I only make character cakes for family and friends (freebies). If someone wants a cake with characters I make them supply store bought toys. You would think the companies would be happy to have someone throwing their child a themed party because that means more money for them. Plates, napkins presents but unfortunately they don't think like we do.

katies_cakes Posted 1 Oct 2010 , 10:08am
post #15 of 21

I have read alot about this subject with character cakes, but i still dont get it! lol. my local bakery sells, displays and advertises character cakes. they use shaped pans and make fondant figures of all sorts of copyrighted characters! maybe its different here in england, but i dont see why it would be?!

katies_cakes Posted 1 Oct 2010 , 10:11am
post #16 of 21

I have read alot about this subject with character cakes, but i still dont get it! lol. my local bakery sells, displays and advertises character cakes. they use shaped pans and make fondant figures of all sorts of copyrighted characters! maybe its different here in england, but i dont see why it would be?!

auzzi Posted 1 Oct 2010 , 11:07am
post #17 of 21

In the USA, and most other countries in the world, everything created privately and originally is copyrighted and protected whether it has a copyright notice or not. [Berne Copyright Convention]

As creative works have commercial value, Copyright laws give the creator exclusive rights to
* obtain monetary benefit from valuable work
* control who may copy their work
* control who may compose variations based on their work
* protect the creator's right to control how a work is used.

Copyright is never lost - it remains with the creator.

U.S. Copyright law is quite explicit: the making of what are called "derivative works" is the exclusive province of the creator of the original work. Even if the new work made by another person undergoes a highly creative process, it is still based another person's copyrighted work, thus creating it can be considered to be breaking the law.

Copyright law gives the creator the ability to sell or license their work. If you sell something to which you do not possess the rights, you are breaking the law. The laws provide creators with secure protection and initiate penalties for those who violate the creators rights.

Copyright law is civil law. If you violate copyright you will get sued, not be charged with a crime. It's a case of which side and which set of evidence the judge or jury accepts or believes more: the owner and their legal team, or you. If you violate copyright, including derived works, by giving your creation away, you degrade the commercial value of the owners copyright: thus you are still considered liable.

Paraphrased from the Article by by Brad Templeton

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From my understanding the only legal ways is to purchase a kit and do it exactly as is stated (think about what grocery stores do)




They pay for a licence ..

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purchase an edible image




you are purchasing the image, not the right to re-sell it

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have the customer purchase toys and put them on a background that matches the theme.




not really - you are still degrading their copyright

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Copyrights come up for renewal




No - copyright is the lifetime of the creator plus 75-100years afterwards ..

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I suspect america is probably the strictest country in the world with that kind of thing, given how much litigation goes on




it happens regularly in australia and new zealand - in civil court, not criminal court

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you cannot financially benefit from their characters likeness



Incorrect

Note: As for recipes:

1. A list of ingredients, and the proportions, in recipes is considered NOT unique or individual enough to be copyrighted.

2. Styles, methods, techniques, procedures, exist in the public domain: eg Creaming method, marinating, brewing etc

3. The author's unique method of instruction that set out the preparation could/can/will be subject to copyright.

You cannot make a physical copy of a recipe from any medium, as is, because it is copyright.

You can use:
a) public domain recipes
b) expired copyright recipes (the life of the creator plus 70 years)
or
c) your version of basic, standard, or classic recipes in which the "usual" ingredients are accompanied by your own description of the method to be used

7yyrt Posted 1 Oct 2010 , 3:13pm
post #18 of 21

Not sure where you got -" No - copyright is the lifetime of the creator plus 75-100years afterwards "
Much, much more on the link; including laws, citations, and court decisions.

http://chart.copyrightdata.com/ch07.html
* Works copyrighted prior to 1923 are no longer covered by copyright.
* For works copyrighted 1923-1950, for copyright renewal to be valid, renewal had to occur between the 27th and 28th anniversaries of the date that the initial copyright term began. For works copyrighted 1950-1963, renewal was also required for an additional term, but renewal had to occur during the calendar year following the year of the 27th anniversary of the start date of the first term. A
* 1950 works could be renewed in both the anniversary year window and the calendar year window. A A
* A table detailing the rules of renewal for various time periods is on the tree-view chart page A
* The law allows for renewals only by the original claimant, legal heir, executor (in the case of an estate not yet discharged), or party who came to own the property through transfer. A
* If a deceased author did not specify in a will how his copyright(s) would be bequeathed, the law prescribes who his heirs will be and in what proportions. A
* Renewal of a copyright by a creator during the last year of the first term of a copyright deprives heirs of extra rights they might have in the second term of copyright, even if the author dies after renewal but before the start of the second term. A A
* The opportunity to renew goes to the author, not to the party who owned publication rights during the first term (if different than the author) except in conditions where the owner retains the rights: posthumous works, composite and encyclopedic works, corporate works, works for hire. A A
* If the author dies prior to the original publication and registration of copyright, posthumous publication may entails conflicts, potentially pitting publisher and heirs against one another where a work has been contracted but not published during a creators lifetime. A
* A renewal filing within four days after deadline could be explained by the Copyright Office not being open weekends and holidays. If this accounts for a renewal being late, the renewal is valid. A

auzzi Posted 2 Oct 2010 , 8:10am
post #19 of 21
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Not sure where you got -" No - copyright is the lifetime of the creator plus 75-100years afterwards "



A bit too much:

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Copyright Law of the United States of America and Related Laws Contained in Title 17 of the United States Code
Circular 92
Section 302. Duration of copyright: Works created on or after January 1, 1978
Part (a) In General. Copyright in a work created on or after January 1, 1978, subsists from its creation and, except as provided by the following subsections, endures for a term consisting of the life of the author and70 years after the author's death.
The Copyright Term Extension Act (CTEA) of 1998 extended copyright terms in the United States by 20 years. Since the Copyright Act of 1976, copyright would last for the life of the author plus 50 years, or 75 years for a work of corporate authorship. The Act extended these terms to life of the author plus 70 years and for works of corporate authorship to 120 years after creation or 95 years after publication, whichever endpoint is earlier.[1] Copyright protection for works published prior to January 1, 1978, was increased by 20 years to a total of 95 years from their publication date.




Most of the material about Copyright Extensions were legislated because under the old Copyright System, Mickey Mouse was about to come out of copyright.

Disney was not going to sit still for that ..

cr8zchpr Posted 2 Oct 2010 , 8:57am
post #20 of 21

Ok then what that means is EVERYTHING ever made is then under copyright. Then that would mean we are unable to make nothing, someone has already made cakes with clowns, flowers, animals, prints, heck even every color under the rainbow. Someone has already made a cake with lets say blue stripes so no one should be able to make a cake with blue stripes. And the topsy turvey cakes, they are the brain child of the originator so in essence everyone who has ever made a topsy turvey cake, myself included, has infringed upon their original design. So can someone tell me what we can make, so I, or anyone else doesn't end up in jail or worse bankrupt... icon_sad.gif

7yyrt Posted 2 Oct 2010 , 2:52pm
post #21 of 21

It's quite simple really... does the item you wish to make have a little c in a circle, or a little tm?
The c means copyright, the tm means trademarked. (In the case of fabric you may sell things made of it, it's the design you aren't supposed to replicate.)
Does it say for home use only, like the Wilton pans? Then you can't sell items made with it.

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