Respect For Other Peoples Work

Decorating By spottydot Updated 19 Aug 2010 , 12:19pm by Karen421

spottydot Posted 18 Aug 2010 , 4:56pm
post #1 of 17

I have been reading the posts in the Cake Central forums for a long time, but this is the first time I feel inclined to write a message. I just attended the ICES convention in San Diego and it was great. The cakes were beautiful, the demos were wonderful, but the vendors booths were the best part. I saw so many new products and was sad that my budget only allowed me to buy just a few new toys. The one thing I did notice was the vendors selling instructional DVDs. I know a lot of hard work goes into making these DVDs and I appreciate the talented people wanting to share their knowledge. I bought several of Sharon Z's DVDs and realized after watching them that much of the information she teaches is freely shared on this and other cake forums. This is also true with another vendor who created a new cake decorating method. So my question is, do we respect the material in the DVDs and not just freely share it? I ask this because these talented people will stop going to the expense and time to come out with new material, techniques and methods if one person buys the DVD and then freely shares the information. What are your thoughts on this?

16 replies
thumbs Posted 18 Aug 2010 , 5:09pm
post #2 of 17

I think the problem is the information gets shared so much people don't realize it was even originated from a purchased DVD, etc.

I like sharing ideas and tips, but yes, I think we need to respect the creators at the same time. I don't have a lot of video's but I do have some of Jennifer D (can't remember spelling of last name) one of her videos is on how to make Chocolate fondant. I have noticed people seem to really respect this and when another CCer asks for the recipe so far all posts I have seen directs the person to her page to purchase the DVD which I think is great.

Loucinda Posted 18 Aug 2010 , 5:17pm
post #3 of 17

If you look at the how to's the person who posted how to do the gelatin technique IS Diane Simmons who came up with the idea. (her and Micahelle Stidham) There are several of us who help answer questions, but we made sure SHE was the one who posted how to do it before we helped anyone!

Sharon herself posts her recipe on here, and helps others as much as she can. With that said, there is NO substitite for the DVD's IMO. Even with the help here, they are so nice to have!

Jennifer Dontz also - will help in anyway she can, just ask!

Here on CC it is a win win, most of the time everyone will share - but they do not step on the toes of those who's business it is. thumbs_up.gif

WykdGud Posted 18 Aug 2010 , 5:18pm
post #4 of 17

I have purchased several of Sharon's DVD's, and while she does great work - I don't believe she invented any new way of doing things. I am pretty sure that she learned at least SOME of what she knows from other people. What she DID do was put all of her cumulative knowledge in one place with visual aids for those who can't "get it" by the written word alone. I doubt she would feel slighted or lose any sales from someone discussing what's in her DVDs.

In fact, I've watched them - and if someone were to ask me about a method, I'd recommend her videos after a brief explanation. I think it's easier to learn with a visual aid, and that's exactly what these DVDs are for.

artscallion Posted 18 Aug 2010 , 5:20pm
post #5 of 17

I think it's alright to talk about the ideas in the same way that it's okay to discuss any DVD or book. I think when things get sticky is when you reproduce said DVD or book. You cannot copy and pass out copies of DVDs and you can't cut and paste or scan and post passages from books into a message board. But to say something like, "Mary Jones talks about this on her DVD. She says to chill the knife before using it, rather than after." is fine.

flamingobaker Posted 18 Aug 2010 , 5:22pm
post #6 of 17

I think there is a difference between reading something here on CC and actually having the video.

I have read a lot of info here on her method, but I am sure not ALL of it and I would still like to get her videos.


(excuse me, I'm old, I mean DVDs icon_lol.gif )

Ruth0209 Posted 18 Aug 2010 , 5:23pm
post #7 of 17

I don't think this is an issue. First of all, when I heard people talking about how helpful Sharon's DVDs were, even though they may have described the techniques in detail, it inspired me to go purchase the DVD because a picture really is worth a thousand words. If anything, it's free advertising.

If someone copyrights images or patents a process, then of course people are not free to pass it along or claim it without permission.

Finally, (for example) Sharon did a FANTASTIC job of producing a DVD on icing cakes that are smooth, and I think her DVDs have taught me more about how to ice a cake than anything else I've ever read here or purchased. Nonetheless, she didn't invent icing smooth cakes. I'm not convinced that sharing how to use a hot bench scraper on a cake violates her work in any way.

all4cake Posted 18 Aug 2010 , 5:23pm
post #8 of 17

Well, that would pretty much encompass every technique ever learned, eh?

Wilton (just an example...there's so many more that could be named) has gone to the expense of creating NEW techniques, training instructors to teach classes but dagnabit, the students went out and shared their knowledge.

I'm sure it bites for those who've invested time and money on creating the instructions...but who is really to say it is new? I've seen a lot of times where someone will say, "...and this is how I did it." (maybe learned it from class/dvd/book/whatever). I've not seen a whole lot of "...in ____'s dvd, she tells you to do it this way." . I've also seen a lot of "I learned it in ____'s dvd. PM her and ask. or go to her site at _________.com"

Sharing is going to happen. I'm sure no disrespect is intended. (I know at least one big name crafter(ha!) who claims other people's ideas as her own...and everyone marvels at her ingenuity(ha!) )


oh, another thought...even though a lot of people share information on various sites...some of those selling their instruction materials may even benefit from it. Spark interest in the material and someone may want to own that book or dvd for themselves.

Right or wrong, those are my thoughts.

4realLaLa Posted 18 Aug 2010 , 5:27pm
post #9 of 17

I love Sharon Zambito. I have two of her DVDs. I learned a lot from them but I have also learned a lot from trial and error as well. I too have received a lot of advice but the thing is... I would still purchase books and dvds because there's nothing like seeing it for myself. If people didn't share on CC, everyone would just go to youtube (in fact that's how I found out about Sharon Z).

_christina_ Posted 18 Aug 2010 , 5:29pm
post #10 of 17

Perhaps the person selling the DVD is not the person who created the idea? Perhaps they are just the person who perfected their way of doing it and then marketed it.

There are so many creative people out there who don't sell there ideas and just freely share them.

dchockeyguy Posted 18 Aug 2010 , 5:39pm
post #11 of 17

Personally, I find a huge difference in being told HOW to do something, and seeing a video of someone actually DOING it. I learn much better from watching the DVD to see the proper way to actually do something. So I don't think there's really any problem here. I have 3 of Sharon's DVD's myself, plus some other ones.

However, my biggest problem is that some people out there sell expensive DVD's that aren't very good. I bought one of those the other year and really felt like I wasted my money on it.

4realLaLa Posted 18 Aug 2010 , 5:40pm
post #12 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by _christina_

Perhaps the person selling the DVD is not the person who created the idea? Perhaps they are just the person who perfected their way of doing it and then marketed it.

There are so many creative people out there who don't sell there ideas and just freely share them.





Great point!

all4cake Posted 18 Aug 2010 , 5:49pm
post #13 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4realLaLa

Quote:
Originally Posted by _christina_

Perhaps the person selling the DVD is not the person who created the idea? Perhaps they are just the person who perfected their way of doing it and then marketed it.

There are so many creative people out there who don't sell there ideas and just freely share them.




Great point!




ooooooooooooooor, the ones with dvds, began by sharing freely then got the idea (fromsomeone who had the idea to market ideas icon_surprised.gif oh, the horra!) to market it and charge for it.

bobwonderbuns Posted 18 Aug 2010 , 6:11pm
post #14 of 17

You know the old saying "there's nothing new under the sun..."? Well that is very true for the sugar arts. If you look back to the ancient cake decorating books, a lot of what was taught back then is being retaught now! I have all of Sharon's DVDs and while she isn't teaching anything particularly new, she is showing how SHE does things. I do many of those same things differently, but I still learn by watching. The problem is when someone develops a new way of doing something and somebody else ever so slightly tweaks that and claims "complete credit" for the idea rather than saying "I saw this done this way and I adapted it to my way" while giving credit to the originator. This recently happened in the cake world and a lot of people were unnecessarily hurt by it. For goodness sakes, it's SUGAR, not brain surgery!! icon_cool.gif I recently took a class with an AMAZING sugar artist who taught me a fabulous "new" technique -- one that I was not familiar with but has been around since the days of the English aristocracy!! I've since been asked to do a tutorial on it and I felt an obligation to ask my teacher for his blessing, which he freely gave. When the tutorial is done he will get credit for teaching me. It's called RESPECT!! icon_smile.gif

all4cake Posted 19 Aug 2010 , 3:30am
post #15 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulalovescake

One great example for this topic are Linda McCLures DVDs. She was the one who developed the technique of using electronic cutters for gum paste. You can find every bit of her instructions all over this forum. There are also people making DVDs that are copying what she did. You can go to youtube and see every bit of her technique freely shared. I have personally purchased her DVDs and have taken her classes. I know it is a lot of hard work to develop this and put it out to the public. I worry that if we so freely share what we find, then what is the incentive for these great, talented people to keep doing this? This is a wonderful forum and I am grateful for the talented cake decorators who are so helpful to those who are not quite as experienced.




she may have been the first to aid in the development of a foodsafe model but, I am most confident in saying she is not the first to use the electronic cutter in cake decorating. There's too too many people who use various crafting items for cake decorating to say for sure who was first. I've been stencilling on cakes for more than 20 years, stamping on cakes , using paper punches for longer than that and the clay extruder since that little green, plastic badboy came out and although I'd never seen it done before, I'd be fooling myself to claim I invented the idea.

The incentive for these great , talented people to keep doing this is passion for the art

scp1127 Posted 19 Aug 2010 , 6:56am
post #16 of 17

This site is where I learned about Edna, Sharon, and Jennifer and because of the praises of people here, I have purchased videos from each person and I love watching and learning from them. The videos are like taking a class from a pro that you can take over and over until you get it right... and only pay once! Soooo worth the money.

Karen421 Posted 19 Aug 2010 , 12:19pm
post #17 of 17

I agree, you can tell someone how to do something, but it's nothing like having their DVD, and being able to refer to it any time you need it. thumbs_up.gif

Quote by @%username% on %date%

%body%