A Couple Fondant/buttercream Questions...

Decorating By AndreaRu Updated 11 Aug 2010 , 1:25am by tanstaafl

AndreaRu Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 6:59pm
post #1 of 16

Hi all,

I'm new and attempting to soak up all your knowledge this week. I'm making my first fondant cake for my son's birthday and it's quite ambitious for me. I tried a test cake and it went OK so I think I can do it. icon_smile.gif

I have a couple long-winded questions that I think will have short answers. icon_smile.gif I've searched but I haven't been able to come up with a good answer, so I'm just going to ask.

I am planning to peel the MMF off before serving. I'd like there to be more than just a crumb coat of frosting. Is it OK to frost the cake with a layer of buttercream over the crumb coat before covering with fondant? Everything I read suggests otherwise and it doesn't seem like a good idea, but I want to know for sure.

Also, since I have a phobia about spoiled food (especially when entertaining) and I know I don't want to leave the cake out unless it's completely non-perishable, I want to make an all-shortening buttercream. I've found 100 recipes, but most seem to include some kind of real butter or cream (my son is allergic to dairy so these can't be there anyway). Does anyone have a recommendation for a tried and true, super counter-safe buttercream that's dairy-free? The premade stuff from the store is dairy-free, but I want something that tastes like it didn't come out of a can. icon_smile.gif

Thanks in advance. I'm attaching photos of my practice cake. I just doodled on the top with buttercream just for fun, don't hold it against me. icon_smile.gif
LL

15 replies
kelleyskreations Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 7:12pm
post #2 of 16

We live in a very hot humid climate so in the summer I make the "Never Fail Buttercream" recipe that I found in the recipe section on this site but I just use all shortening instead of butter. It is very yummy!! I have never had any complaints and it keeps the buttercream from melting so much.

AndreaRu Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 7:19pm
post #3 of 16

I appreciate the suggestion, but I think that one is out, too. icon_sad.gif It includes milk, which I guess I could just sub for water (though I'm not sure what that would do to it), but it also has Meringue powder (didn't know they put that in frostings or I would have been more specific). My son is allergic to eggs, so it can't have eggs, either.

It must be possible somehow without milk or egg because the canned frosting has neither, but I'm just coming up empty on finding the a recipe that I know will work.

Skidoochic Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 7:27pm
post #4 of 16

What about non-dairy creamer in place of the milk?

sweet-thing Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 7:29pm
post #5 of 16

You can put buttercream under the fondant but it is harder to get it smooth (the fondant). Why are you planning to peel the fondant off?

Rose_N_Crantz Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 7:30pm
post #6 of 16

I think most buttercreams can be made into an all shortening variation. Just use shortening instead of butter, cup for cup. I was going to suggest IndyDebi's, but hers calls for a packet of Dream Whip, not sure if that's considered dairy free.

Absolutely you can put a layer of bc under fondant. That's the only way I do fondant cakes. Mainly because my family prefers bc, but like the look of fondant. So most peel the fondant off of their slice. My 4 year old nephew LOVES fondant though, so he eats all of his!

kelleyskreations Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 7:30pm
post #7 of 16

In that recipe if you read the comments alot of people omit the meringue powder. As far as the water I think it would work or maybe the non dairy creamer is an idea. Does your son dring lactose free milk or soymilk or something. Maybe that would work?? I really have no clue just throwing suggestions out icon_smile.gif

2SchnauzerLady Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 7:34pm
post #8 of 16

I would suggest nondairy creamer, too. All that sugar "cooks" anything that might normally need refridgeration. I use Sugarshack's buttercream found in the recipe section. It is totally safe out of the fridge, and you can change the flavor according to the nondairy creamer used. It works well with shortening and, if you ever have the occassion, works well with butter.

yums Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 7:34pm
post #9 of 16

How about sugar shacks? Could try any other bc recipe just sub all crisco and a non-dairy creamer.

AndreaRu Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 8:23pm
post #10 of 16

Thanks for all the suggestions. As long as it's OK to use water in place of cream, I can just do that. He can have soy milk, but I don't want it in the frosting that everyone else will eat -- it's never quite right to people who aren't used to the taste.

Coffee creamer isn't completely non-dairy, but water is safer for my spoil-phobia anyway. icon_smile.gif Glad to know I can substitute shortening for butter 1:1 -- I was concerned about the ratios if substituting.

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Why are you planning to peel the fondant off?




I'm just not sure that a bunch of kids will know what to do with it and they might not enjoy the cake as much if it's covered in stuff they've never seen before. I just figured it would be easier for them. As for the adults, I personally don't like the taste of MMF and I'd rather just use it for looks and not risk people eating it and thinking it's gross. icon_lol.gif

Thanks for the info on putting more frosting under the fondant. I'll work very hard to get it smooth so that it will interfere with the fondant as little as possible.

mom2twogrlz Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 8:44pm
post #11 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreaRu

Thanks for all the suggestions. As long as it's OK to use water in place of cream, I can just do that. He can have soy milk, but I don't want it in the frosting that everyone else will eat -- it's never quite right to people who aren't used to the taste.

Coffee creamer isn't completely non-dairy, but water is safer for my spoil-phobia anyway. icon_smile.gif Glad to know I can substitute shortening for butter 1:1 -- I was concerned about the ratios if substituting.

Quote:
Quote:

Why are you planning to peel the fondant off?



I'm just not sure that a bunch of kids will know what to do with it and they might not enjoy the cake as much if it's covered in stuff they've never seen before. I just figured it would be easier for them. As for the adults, I personally don't like the taste of MMF and I'd rather just use it for looks and not risk people eating it and thinking it's gross. icon_lol.gif

Thanks for the info on putting more frosting under the fondant. I'll work very hard to get it smooth so that it will interfere with the fondant as little as possible.




You might be surprised. All but one of my kid's friends LOVE fondant. It is like candy to them. I have to tell them to NOT eat the fondant decorations til AFTER the cake is cut. Then the race is on to see who can get the most.

As far as the dairy free buttercream, I suggest a trial batch. try it with water, then again with soymilk. See which one you like best. You could always do a half batch. Also, I think there are a few people on here who use soymilk exclusively, so you might be able to taste the difference with all the sugar. Give it a try icon_smile.gif

brincess_b Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 9:09pm
post #12 of 16

Why don't you read up and reasearch buttercream properly, so that you have more confidence at changing recipes, and feel safe using them. Ur fears about butter and milk relating to spoilage are not based on fact - there are sites that explain the science, so you wouldn't just be taking our word for it.
Many people love fondant, so leave it up to them whether they remove it or not - or pick designs that can be done in bc. Part of a great cake is that it looks great on the plate - not so likely when u remove the fondant!
You can use a thicker layer of bc under your fondant, it just depends what you find easier to work with, or have experience with.
If you sub shortening and butter it's not quite 1:1 - I think you need less shortening than butter - my tub says 20% less. But you don't need to b precise with bc, just learn how to balance it all out - more ps = stiffer, more liquid = thinner.
xx

hollyml Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 9:39pm
post #13 of 16

If you don't want to serve the fondant, why bother covering the cake with fondant in the first place? Work on your skills at smoothing the buttercream instead. icon_smile.gif No matter how thick you make the frosting under the fondant, it will look like a mess if you peel the fondant off. Of course, some people do peel off fondant before eating a piece of cake, but I wouldn't do the peeling when serving!

As for a dairy-free buttercream recipe, simple. Just use all shortening (instead of butter or half butter/half shortening) and use fruit juice instead of milk or water for the liquid. Plain all-shortening BC doesn't taste very good (IMO) but if you use juice, you get a nice flavor. It won't taste like canned, in any event, as long as you use real juice (no artificial flavorings).

AndreaRu Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 11:42pm
post #14 of 16
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If you don't want to serve the fondant, why bother covering the cake with fondant in the first place?




The cake I'm making requires fondant for the result I want, so I'm going to stick with it. I don't have time to change gears when the party is only a few days away.

I'm sure it'll be fine now that I've had my questions answered. icon_smile.gif

livingla Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 12:07am
post #15 of 16

Wilton has a recipe that uses only shortening and you can use corn syrup or water to thin. The recipe is:

1 cup solid vegetable shortening
1/2 teaspoon Butter Flavor
1 teaspoon clear vanilla extract
4 cups sifted confectioners' sugar (approximately 1 lb.)
4 tablespoons light corn syrup, water or milk to thin for icing cakes.

Makes: About 3 cups of icing.

tanstaafl Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 1:25am
post #16 of 16

My daughter is allergic to dairy as well as soy. I use Indydebi's recipe, but substitute coconut milk for the milk, and omit the dreamwhip (it contains dairy). As you pointed out, non-dairy creamer almost always contains dairy. I have heard that there are some brands that don't, but I have yet to find them.

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