Shortening Can Be Troublesome & Controversial
Decorating By chubbyalaskagriz Updated 12 Aug 2010 , 9:55pm by Rose_N_Crantz
Hmmm....Crisco. I have a very vivid memory of watching my grandmother make pie crust when I was a little girl. I was sitting on the counter and she had a tub of Crisco out which she was measuring shortening out of to make pie crust. I loved her pie crust so when she wasn't looking I stuck my hand in the tub and got a big handful and shoved it in my mouth. Haha...you can imagine the reaction. Needless to say, I do not use shortening in my icing. It's just a personal choice, I have plenty of friends who swear by it. I just prefer butter. I also usually add a small amount of cream cheese to my butter, which cuts the sweetness and helps it crust. But I have never heard anybody complain about icing on wedding cakes either, it's usually about how dry or flavorless they are.
I really think this is the same "kind-of" debate as scratch vs. box. There are people out there charging 10 arms and 10 legs for a slice of cake and they are made from a box and crisco and they are really fantastic, if not amazing cakes. It's what ever works for your customers. I know that many of my clients say they hate grocery store icing because it's made from all Crisco, but love mine because its butter cream. Well mine is all Crisco too. There are too many variables in this topic...it could be debated for days (probably will!!). As my mom says: "It's not the wand that makes the magician...it's the magician." (not sure if that quote applies but felt like I should throw it in.) Sidenote: I live in a one stoplight kind of town, if I even try to serve a meringue BC I'd be out with the hogs!! 
I stand corrected in this baker's case. Apologies.
Question: In any of Martha Stewart's lavish publications with her hundreds of stunning cakes have you ever seen a recipe for frostings comprised of anything other than real food items?
Clay and plaster-of-Paris are wonderful mediums for shaping/sculpting/molding too... but that doesnt mean we use them to forst wedding cakes with. same with shortening. IMO.
It was just the first example off the top of my head, seeing as I have that book sitting next to me right now.
If you'd like to go with someone a little more famous to the general public, Buddy Valastro's buttercream recipe is posted online.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/recipe?id=7617125
Some bakeries use meringue buttercreams. Some use all-butter buttercreams. Some use shortening buttercreams.
And yes, that includes the high dollar bakeries you previously mentioned.
As has been said repeatedly in this thread, what it all comes down to is what one's customers are happy with. Toba and Buddy seem to be doing just fine using something other than "real food." *shrug*
I was unaware the cake buying public was so vocal about icing. Most cake civilians that I encounter have no idea what's in the icing.
Ditto. The only request I've ever had for something specific was for my sister's graduation cake when she asked for a whipped topping as she thinks most icings are too sweet. Started with the Wilton recipe from classes.....then came hear and kept hearing about Indydebi's recipe. Tried it, love it, haven't looked back.
I think that if you have a recipe that works well for you and for your clients...then go with it. If not.....try the different varieties until you find one that does.
That snow-white crisco icing is common. And I cant believe so many cakers here haven't heard the common and frequent neg rants about the crisco icing. Wow. one thing is sure, there are very few professional bakers who develop standard recipes that dont use crisco. for those who choose to I think theres a goldmine in it for them! Unique, uncommon and definitely a cut above.
As has been said repeatedly in this thread, what it all comes down to is what one's customers are happy with.
So cake civilians are not aware of what is in most icings yet a caker should produce what one's customers are happy with? Frankly while they may like a shortening based buttercream, how would anyone know they would not like something else more unless s/he made shortening and non shortening based buttercreams and had a client test them? If they lack the requisite knowledge to know what is in most icings, then they lack the ability to discern which icings they would like better.
Simply because I go to a particular restaurant and find a particular dish to be good does not mean that there is not a much better version of that dish produced by a more accomplished chef out there. I used to think well done steak was good--I grew up eating it that way as my mother was opposed to any pink meat. Once I got past that socialization I learned what cooking a steak well done does to the meat--its texture and flavor. No foodie, no chef, no one with a discernable palate will tell you that a well done steak will be cooked perfectly-no matter how juicy you are able to keep it.
Point is unless customers are exposed to more than just the shortening based buttercream that a particular cakre makes and the ones from the grocery store, they lack the ability to determine if in fact they like it better than nonshortening based options. It may taste "good," they may "like it" (a well done steak does not have to taste like shoe leather) but they do not get to be the arbiters of what is better unless they have sampled other buttercreams.
And as to Buddy and Toba, neither link mentions whether or not they are used professionally. One is in a cookbook (unless mentioned it is used professionally I never assume recipes for the home are used by a professional) and says it is good when all others fail does not mean it used in the bakery--use it when conditions warrant it. Meaning under normal conditions it is not the go to recipe--there are other preferred recipes. . Neither is a shortening based buttercream. Toba's is a 2:1 and Buddy's is a 1:1. Only relevant because mixed butter/shortening recipes are not the same as the all shortening recipes which the OP mentioned.
It's also about what your shop is about. I work in a high volume production bakery. We have had over 200 decorted cake orders over a holiday weekend. That kind of volume is going to use shortening in their icing. I know some high end speciality shops here too that have 4 cake orders a day----but big buck orders. They have the time and charge for other type of icings.
LuluSweet...that is a funny story about dipping your finger into the can of Crisco as a kid. Reminds me of my mother telling me they were so poor as a kid they ate lard sandwiches .....ewww. But that was back in the depression days too. She was not a fan of crisco or lard! Lol
LuluSweet...that is a funny story about dipping your finger into the can of Crisco as a kid. Reminds me of my mother telling me they were so poor as a kid they ate lard sandwiches .....ewww. But that was back in the depression days too. She was not a fan of crisco or lard! Lol
I've heard older people mention eating lard sandwiches too .... can't imagine! But if its the only food ya got, then sometimes you just eat it or starve! 
When I read the hand-in-the-crisco-in-the-mouth story, it cracked me up. 
I think we've all got a story or two like that in our lives! But not eating crisco-icing because of what straight-crisco tastes like is like not eating chocolate because of what cocoa-straight-from-the-can tastes like! 
Ok ok OK--Crisco is an ingredient. It is what you do with it. It's like saying I don't like flour because I tasted a cake that had it in it and it was dry and tasted bad.
I will stand by my all of my frostings. I call it butter cream, have for years--I'll stand them all from the vanilla to the root beer and they've all got hi-ratio as a base. I combine the shortening with high quality ingredients and use the right ratio of sugar to shortening. I've tasted plenty of Crisco based frostings that I wouldn't take another bite of--there is good and bad in everything. I'd venture to say there are some 100% butter butter creams that would make me gag!
It's not for everyone, that's fine. If we all liked the same things we would only need one recipe--B-O-R-I-N-G
If 100% butter is for you--bravo! I've never tried working with it. I'm happy, my customers are happy and my family is happy with what I've done for years.
Again--I treat it as one part of the equation and it's what you do with it.
I do not like the taste of bc with vegetable shortening in my mouth. So for now I butter but is starting to experiment with others.
I offer both SMBC and a primarily shortening/PS icing to my tastings...and without fail, all of them have selected the PS/shortening frosting for their cake.
I don't know why. I prefer the SMBC by a vast margin, but I guess it is what they grew up on or something. Nobody has chosen the gorgeous, smooth, silky, buttery SMBC yet.
[quote="cakeprof"]
As has been said repeatedly in this thread, what it all comes down to is what one's customers are happy with.
Point is unless customers are exposed to more than just the shortening based buttercream that a particular cakre makes and the ones from the grocery store, they lack the ability to determine if in fact they like it better than nonshortening based options. It may taste "good," they may "like it" (a well done steak does not have to taste like shoe leather) but they do not get to be the arbiters of what is better unless they have sampled other buttercreams.
The three icings that we offer in a tasting are Indydebi's, an all butter crusting bc and SMBC. 99.9% of the time Indydebi's is the one that's chosen. We offer these three to everyone that has a taste test. We also give these three choices when someone orders a cake. NO ONE ever orders anything but the all shortening based buttercream. I love SMBC but honestly we've never had a customer to order it.
The three icings that we offer in a tasting are Indydebi's, an all butter crusting bc and SMBC. 99.9% of the time Indydebi's is the one that's chosen. We offer these three to everyone that has a taste test. We also give these three choices when someone orders a cake. NO ONE ever orders anything but the all shortening based buttercream. I love SMBC but honestly we've never had a customer to order it.
I have EXACTLY the same situation here mamawrobin, I offered all 3 - thinking of course they are going to pick the butter based icings....NOOO only ONE time has that happened. Once. I was really surprised. I make what the clients want, and that is the icing made with the shortning every time. Do I think they have "bad taste" - absolutely not. They like what they like, so that is what I make!
Do whatever makes you and your clients happy! For me and mine, 99.9% of the time, there is shortning involved.
(but again, my DH LOVES the IMBC, that is by far HIS favorite!)
OK. I am going to say it. I am SO very tired of the "shortening based icings" are second class citizens mentality. This is an old and tired argument. Why must some ( notice I say SOME, not all) folks who use butter icings feel the need to degrade the use of shortening icings. They are different choices. Period. Cake artists choose the one which satisfies their customers.
I use only shortening based icing as that is what is customary, tradional, expected and DESIRED in the location where I live. Wedding cakes here do not have a bad reputation; in fact, just the opposite. People go to weddings here looking forward to the cake and the lowly shortening based icings.
I have made a nice lucritive business for myself with my doctored recipes and shortening based icings, and guess what? I ain't cheap. People pay a good buck for my cakes. Cuz they look good and they taste great! And I am frequently told they are better in taste and looks then the high end bakeries and hotels.
Why can't we all just co-exist? Why must some of the butter based folks feel the need to degrade the shortening folks? I am not a culinary trained pastry chef. I am a moslty self taught cake decorator who uses doctored mixes and shortening icing, and I will happily stand my cake up next to any "high end" all natural, professionally trained froo froo cake. And it will be just as good, just as professional, just as tasty, just as worthy.
I, nor my products, are inferior because I use these things, nor will I allow anyone to make me feel that way.
OK one more thing to say and then I am done:
butter: from a cow, who is probably on sterioids and antibiotics:
one cup has: 1628 calories, 117 grams saturated fat, 488 grams cholesterol, 1308 grams sodium
shortening: all vegetable, plant based:
one cup has: 1760 calories, 48 grams saturated fats, zero cholesterol, zero sodium
So how did butter get to be the superior ingredient? And who decided which one is superior?
Wedding cakes here do not have a bad reputation; in fact, just the opposite. People go to weddings here looking forward to the cake and the lowly shortening based icings.
I did a wedding cake for a friend this weekend. After diinner, I'm sitting next to another friend who kept asking me, "When are you cutting the cake? The only reason I come to weddings is for the booze and the cake! Bring on the cake!!"
Btw, the bride posted on facebook that she had guests "who are not cake lovers" who were raving over my crisco icing covered cake and who wanted seconds!
[quote="mamawrobin"]
As has been said repeatedly in this thread, what it all comes down to is what one's customers are happy with.
Point is unless customers are exposed to more than just the shortening based buttercream that a particular cakre makes and the ones from the grocery store, they lack the ability to determine if in fact they like it better than nonshortening based options. It may taste "good," they may "like it" (a well done steak does not have to taste like shoe leather) but they do not get to be the arbiters of what is better unless they have sampled other buttercreams.
The three icings that we offer in a tasting are Indydebi's, an all butter crusting bc and SMBC. 99.9% of the time Indydebi's is the one that's chosen. We offer these three to everyone that has a taste test. We also give these three choices when someone orders a cake. NO ONE ever orders anything but the all shortening based buttercream. I love SMBC but honestly we've never had a customer to order it.
Fair enough but here is my question does your butter based buttercream have Dream Whip in it? If not, why not? If not then to say shortening based buttercream is preferred over butter based buttercream is still not a fair test. I have made both and I like Indydebi's buttercream but I do not prefer it because I do not believe my buttercream should taste like whip cream.
The two dominant preferred shortening based "buttercreams" discussed on this site have some flavoring added to them--be it Dream Whip or coffee creamers. Now I will defer to others who may have tried them, but as far as I can tell there is nothing in either of those products that means they could not be used in a butter based buttercream.
Try making your buttercream with shortening without that added flavoring--a la the Wilton buttercream--and see how many of your clients prefer shortening based buttercreams. Given the number of comments about the Wilton brand I bet you would find them preferring something else.
Indydebi's buttercream is the best shortening based buttercream I have tasted--period--no doubt about it. But it is because of the Dream Whip, take that out and it is no different than the Wilton brand which I do not even like to use for practice---might accidentally lick that nasty stuff off my fingers.
Point is this Indydebi's or Sugarshack's buttercreams are not the standard for how they should be made they have ingredients added to them not in the standard buttercream recipe. And comparing them to buttercream with butter without adding additional flavorings does not mean that people like shortening based buttercreams better. It means they prefer the icing with whatever flavor additive that has been added to enhance the taste that is one and not the other.
I do not use Dream Whip nor Creamer...that is my choice for my butter cream recipe and people love my icing. Adding other ingredients does not make a butter cream "less of a buttercream" recipe, in my opinion.
I am convinced poeple like my icing due to the choice of exacts I use.
In the hot summer I use shortening only...in the winter, my recipe is 50/50 using butter.
Try making your buttercream with shortening without that added flavoring--a la the Wilton buttercream--and see how many of your clients prefer shortening based buttercreams.
This logic just escapes me.
Are you implying that all foods should be made the same, or should be made "plain" to get a good taste comparison? Or all foods should be prepared the same way otherwise the taste test is null and void?
I like scrambled eggs, fried eggs and egg salad, but I cannot just bite into a whole hard boiled egg. Under your logic I can't say I like eggs unless I eat a plain hard boiled egg ...... even tho' I like them scrambled together with a little milk topped with some melted cheese.
My husband doesn't like apples. But he loves applesauce and apple pie. Again, under your logic, he can't make that statement because the applesauce and the pie is "doctored up" to "taste better". He likes fresh bananas, but asking him to compare a fresh apple to a fresh banana and decide which he "reallY" likes better is .... well, not logical.
We should throw all food competitions out the window unless we require all competitors to make the same food the same way? Geesh, talk about a boring show! "I proclaim the winner to be ....... everyone!" (Or no one!)
Saying that a good comparisoin between crisco and butter based recipes are unfair because flavorings are added is silly to me. I could decide that "butter" is a flavoring (you can buy that in a bottle, right?) so why not just add a drop or two to any crisco-based icing and voila! A "fair" comparison.
Illogical logic gets on my last nerve. 
Seriously, who cares?
There are all kinds of bakers at all kinds of levels making all kinds of products for all kinds of customers who like all kinds of things.
You could apply this to any food. One little clam shack sells flash frozen year old shrimp, coated in box mix batter, deep fried in crisco, served in little checkered cardboard containers with ketchup packets, and has lines around the block. Another sells shrimp, freshly plucked from he waters behind the restaurant that day, gently sauteed in real butter and fresh herbs, served over fresh pasta on fine china and you have to make a reservation a month in advance. And there's a whole range in between those two extremes...same with any food including icings.
There's a market for both. There are folks who love both. There are folks who love the frozen stuff better than the fresh, and folks who wouldn't touch the frozen stuff if it were free.
This site has a range of bakers who use a whole range of icings, just like in the real world of all other foods. Lots of people here use Crisco, lots don't. Many use it when they feel it's appropriate to the situation.
Again, who cares? This is a false "controversy". What could anyone possible care what anyone else uses or sells other than to try and start a dust up?
Until I took my first Wilton class, I had no idea what was in frosting (shortening). That didn't stop me from eating it by the spoonful. Until I got the internet and joined CC I had no idea there were even other recipes besides the Wilton class buttercream. I used that recipe for years and you know what? Everyone raved. I told them what was in it and they said "MmmmHmmm" as they licked the spoon. I am excited to try IndyDebi's recipe since I've heard such great things about it. I've tried the half butter/half crisco version but truthfully I didn't notice much of a difference.
The only complaints I've ever heard at parties, weddings, etc is that the frosting was too hard/crusty, too marshmallow-fluffy (grocery store cake) and my favorite "what on earth is this stuff?" as someone peeled off fondant. LOL. I've never heard "greasy" in a complaint.
Ok, catching up on this thread since yesterday is giving me a headache. I think I'll go make a pot of coffee-- And BLACK COFFEE is the only way to go. No one in their right mind would add sugar OR cream. And those flavored syrups--are you outta your minds??
Indy, I raise my little cup of cinnamon applesauce and my scrambled egg to you and your hubby!
Enough already people!!
LuluSweet...that is a funny story about dipping your finger into the can of Crisco as a kid. Reminds me of my mother telling me they were so poor as a kid they ate lard sandwiches .....ewww. But that was back in the depression days too. She was not a fan of crisco or lard! Lol
I've heard older people mention eating lard sandwiches too .... can't imagine! But if its the only food ya got, then sometimes you just eat it or starve!
When I read the hand-in-the-crisco-in-the-mouth story, it cracked me up.
I think we've all got a story or two like that in our lives! But not eating crisco-icing because of what straight-crisco tastes like is like not eating chocolate because of what cocoa-straight-from-the-can tastes like!
Sorry . . just have to pipe and be off topic . My grandpas fave food was Dripping sarnies (what we call them ) As kids, when there gran made a roast, and you were a good kid, You got a slice of bread, dipped in the dripping from the meat, It was highlight of a sunday afternoon and best part of the week! Some people like lard, Some people like butter . .I still say personal preference plays a huge part regardless wether a person is educated on it or not.
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