Why Do Papers Come Off

Baking By 2sweetcookies Updated 4 Sep 2010 , 10:38pm by LindaF144a

sugarspice Posted 17 Jul 2010 , 11:22pm
post #31 of 58

I sent a copy of this link to the Reynolds company with an explanation of the on-going problem. I hope to hear something!!

2sweetcookies Posted 17 Jul 2010 , 11:48pm
post #32 of 58

Great idea,go to the sorce I never thought of contacting the cupcake paper manufacturer. Cant wait to hear.

LindaF144a Posted 23 Jul 2010 , 4:23pm
post #33 of 58

I don't know if anybody else is watching this topic anymore. But I thought I would share my experience. I have made about 6 different batches of cupcakes in the last two weeks, except when on vacation. icon_biggrin.gif

Yesterday I had a bad cupcake day. One of the problems I had was the lining separated from the cupcake. After doing a lot of research yesterday and rebaking this morning I am concluding that the reason why the liners separate is due to underbaking.

My cupcakes looked done and had a few crumbs on the toothpick when I inserted it. My research shows that for cupcakes you want the toothpick to come out clean, not with a few crumbs on it. This must be different than cakes and makes sense too. After all they are baking in a much smaller pan and pan size does make a difference for doneness. It's amazing how much 30 seconds more can make to a cupcake.

Why do some of them peel and not others? I think it is due the oven. Hot and cold spots will make some of the cupcakes bake unevenly, especially if you put more than one pan in the oven. This is not true for convection ovens, in which case it could just be plain underbaking. But I don't have any experience with that kind of oven.

Today I am looking at 3 dozen perfect cupcakes and I am very happy. Now I just have to figure out who I can give these to. Seeing how it is Friday, I can't have DH or DD take them to work tomorrow. I'll have to get creative here.

HTH

I forgot to mention that last week I used the Reynolds liners. While I had problems that indicated underbaking (and didn't know it at the time), the liners stayed intact. This week I used the cheapo liners I bought from the big craft chain stores. Some of these peeled, but not all. I believe it is due to the underbaking of the cupcake that caused the cake to shrink and peel away from the paper. These papers did have a distinctive waxy smell when I took them out of the package that the Reynolds package doesn't. So let's say underbaking and the cheapo liners will contribute to the problem. But for those of you who had the problem using Reynolds, you are not going crazy. It could be the cupcakes were underbaked.

suria_garden Posted 23 Jul 2010 , 11:45pm
post #34 of 58

Hi Linda...

Thanx for sharing this info...i have been trying for a solution on this problem...n walla...u have share it with us...millions thnx...

Anyway, could u tell me the temp n minute when u bake the cuppies?? I always bake mine at 150 Celsius for 20min...the reason I am baking in lower than usual temp to reduce the dome effect...

LindaF144a Posted 24 Jul 2010 , 1:38am
post #35 of 58

Sorry, I don't know what the celsious temp is for my oven. I baked at 350 and it worked out well at 21 minutes for my oven. Before today I was baking at 350 and baking for 18 minutes. At 350 I did not get a dome.

I heard that you get a dome if you heat up your oven to 400 and then drop it to 350 when you put the cupcakes in. This causes the outsides of the cupcakes to cook faster than the center pushing the dome up. If you bake at a stead temp, you shouldn't get a dome. Lucky you if you do, cause there are lots of us who would like one and can't seem to get it. I just gave up. I'm happy if I don't get a concave surface!

As an aside I had some cupcake batter left over that I left sitting on the counter for 21 minutes while the others cooked and then I popped them in the oven so as not to waste the batter. I did this to both batches made today, one with cake flour and one with AP flour. The cake flour cupcakes domed! And the AP flour cakes stayed flat. Hmmm....this might be the answer to the doming problem that crops up here on CC.

suria_garden Posted 24 Jul 2010 , 2:26am
post #36 of 58

hahah....lucky me then...well here in Malaysia, most cuppy decoraters, like me prefers flat cuppy surface...unless we make a simple swirl, dome effect is cool...

i might try ur temp...i assume the 350 refers to Fahrenheit...so it is 180 celcius..i'll let u know how it turn out icon_smile.gif

referring to the diff flour used...i need AP flour then...it make sense since cake flour is less protein...with less gluten...hence easily expand to form dome...

yay to ur experiment....thnx again Linda

Ironbaker Posted 26 Jul 2010 , 3:33am
post #37 of 58

I've had this happen way too many times lately and I intentionally tested it. I'm of the club that it is definitely moisture/fat related - be it too much fat in my recipe in relation to the dry ingredients OR adding moisture out of the oven (covered in tupperware, taking out of frig, etc.)

I baked some yesterday, followed recipe, no extras, left on counter for a couple of hours - no peeling.

I've used same recipe, added pureed fruit, sour cream - sooo moist and was peeling as I was taking them out of the pan. Same thing happened with another dozen that didn't start peeling until I covered them. It is possible that I may need to tack on a few more minutes of bake time to help.

Being that I'm in Atlanta, the humidity is a beast right now and I really have to watch it. I find that I cannot do too many extras (fat/liquid) without compensating for it with the dry or else I'll pay for it via the Peel Fairy Monster.

This is my biggest pet peeve with cupcakes.

A quick fix when I'm in a bind - putting them (peeling liner and all) in a prettier liner or a nut cup. Those never peel, sometimes I just use those.

$.02

suria_garden Posted 26 Jul 2010 , 4:47am
post #38 of 58

thnx ironbaker...i keep that in mind....

actually i baked my cuppies with the classic pound cake recipe...adding little milk to make it moist (basically 2tbs per 1kg batter)....

what happened was...it doesn't peel with classic paper cup...but i observed that the cake would shrink in souffle/solo paper cup...which means that the cake shrinks when it cooled...

any idea as how i could ensure my cuppies doesn't shrink in my souffle cup? did anybody experience this?

tweeter_bug98 Posted 26 Jul 2010 , 4:52am
post #39 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBaker

I rarely have the problem with the liners peeling off. I take the cupcakes out of the pan as soon as they come out of the oven and I let them cool on a cooling rack with space between the cupcakes so the heat is not trapped between the cupcakes. I try to ice them within an hour of cooling and never put them in an airtight container.




I do the same exact thing, and have never had a problem with wrappers coming off.

bmoser24 Posted 26 Jul 2010 , 5:19am
post #40 of 58

I live in the west, desert...and never heard of this. Is it the moisture? Because my problem is they stick to the liners, if anything. but, now ...watch, that peel fairy monster just might rear it's head!

Pallison Posted 26 Jul 2010 , 10:41pm
post #41 of 58

I agree with LindaF144.....I believe underbaking may be the culprit for paper liners coming off the cupcakes.....I have experienced this problem on occasion and couldn't figure out why...after extensive research on the net and thinking about my cupcake baking procedures, I came to the conclusion that it could be underbaking...I know I'm very careful not to overbake because I have a problem with my oven getting the bottom of the cupcakes too brown....so I increased the time on my cupcakes and have had no problem since...just to test my theory, I made cupcakes the other day for my grandson and took them out just a little too early....sure enough the liners came loose from the cupcake.....

Evoir Posted 26 Jul 2010 , 11:09pm
post #42 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by confectionsofahousewife

Linda- I had never made marble cake before so I posted here about the best way to do it. I thought I had to make a recipe of my chocolate batter and a recipe of my yellow but Doug told me just to make the yellow and separate some out and add the cocoa powder. I read online that it works well to dissolve it in some boiling water first and it seemed to me that it would mix in better that way. It was odd really, I had never made a marble cake and in one week I had someone wanting marble cupcakes and someone wanting a marble birthday cake! Go figure. I'm going to do some more research before I do it again though. The cake tasted fine but the cupcakes looked a little weird and I had to trim a lot off the top of my 9x13 cakes because the chocolate and yellow cake rose to different levels so the top was bumpy (for lack of a better word). So maybe I should have added some baking soda to the chocolate portion in addition to adding the cocoa? Too acidic maybe? I don't know.
Cupcake pans are both wilton. One is old and one is new. The old one is darker and more matte (not super dark though) and the newer one is lighter and shinier.






I bake from scratch only, and pretty much ALL the recipes I have encountered for marble cakesay to add a small portion of bicarbonate soda or baking powder to any portion where you are adding cocoa. If you are adding cocoa powder only (not mixed in with hot water first) then they say to add baking powder AND a few TBSP milk. I hope this answers you marble cake query. (a bit off topic, but anyhow...)

As far as this cupcake paper topic goes, I am keenly reviewing all responses at it happens to me sometimes! Its sooo frustrating! I assumed it had something to do with oils penetrating the paper liner. Has anyone tried glassine papers, and if so, was there any difference?

Ironbaker Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 2:51pm
post #43 of 58

I know it's not underbaking for me because I don't have the problem as much in the winter. Same recipes, same temps and baking times.

@Suria_garden - I get that sometimes too and I think *that* has to do with underbaking. Not positive on that yet. I've wasted enough cuppies! lol

The mysteries of cupcakes.

Bluehue Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 3:55pm
post #44 of 58

Firstly - have to admit i haven't read all 3 pages of this thread ....
But i have seen quite a few threads along this same line......

and i have come to the conclusion after many years of baking cupcakes and 1000's of assorted cuocakes at that............
that the problem is not with US but with the quality of the paper/s used in the actual case.

So often i see beautiful cases here and there - pirchase them - bake my cupcakes and wait patiently to see if they are a thumbs_up.gif or a thumbsdown.gif .
Nothing rages me more when baking, than papers that peel away - tapedshut.gif


These would have to be my favoutie as far a plain wrappers go - whether baking pure vanilla cupcake - red velvet or mud cupcakes.
http://www.champagnecakes.com.au/flowers1.html..
Best thing is - they do not fade after baking and stay as firm and straight as pre baking.
Made in the UK - and by far the best i have ever used.


The cases made by Vesti House are fantastic - sturdy and i have never had a problem with -http://cupcakehouse.com.au/category_7/Vestli-House-Baking-Cups.htm

Any foil cases i use i always check to make sure that the paper liner is the thicker paper - not the grease proof paper as some cheaper brands make.



icon_smile.gif Evoir - i haven't used Glassine cases for about 10 years -
Wouldn't waste my money on them ever again.
They aren't sturdy after baking - i dislike how they seem to have that greasy look about them after baking and they always feel squishy to the touch - not just my cupcakes - but others also.


So in summing up i have come to the conclusion - its not how you bake your cupcakes - its the quality of the cases...
I have tried every trick in the book testing many of the little cuties and it all boils down to quality of the paper.


Bluehue

2sweetcookies Posted 9 Aug 2010 , 7:29pm
post #45 of 58

What would happen if the cupcakes were placed in the fridge or freezer for a few minutes right after they come out of the oven?

smokeysmokerton Posted 9 Aug 2010 , 7:57pm
post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironbaker

I've had this happen way too many times lately and I intentionally tested it. I'm of the club that it is definitely moisture/fat related - be it too much fat in my recipe in relation to the dry ingredients OR adding moisture out of the oven (covered in tupperware, taking out of frig, etc.)

I baked some yesterday, followed recipe, no extras, left on counter for a couple of hours - no peeling.

I've used same recipe, added pureed fruit, sour cream - sooo moist and was peeling as I was taking them out of the pan. Same thing happened with another dozen that didn't start peeling until I covered them. It is possible that I may need to tack on a few more minutes of bake time to help.

Being that I'm in Atlanta, the humidity is a beast right now and I really have to watch it. I find that I cannot do too many extras (fat/liquid) without compensating for it with the dry or else I'll pay for it via the Peel Fairy Monster.

This is my biggest pet peeve with cupcakes.

A quick fix when I'm in a bind - putting them (peeling liner and all) in a prettier liner or a nut cup. Those never peel, sometimes I just use those.

$.02




Same here. I did 2 batches each chocolate, butter, and pumpkin cupcakes on the same day and used the same liners....only the pumpkin one's peeled. They were completely cooked but are more moist by nature than the others.

TabbieCakes Posted 9 Aug 2010 , 8:28pm
post #47 of 58

I didn't read all the posts to see if someone mentioned this already, but I recently discovered greaseproof liners. They cost a little more but they are awesome. And you can get deals at Home Goods and Amazon.com. I think its the grease of the cake absorbing into the paper that lessens its hold. Greaseproof liners remain "stiff", standing up straight, fully attached and best of all you can still see the design on the liner. Its not faded by the oil. Good luck.

Dayti Posted 9 Aug 2010 , 8:28pm
post #48 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluehue

These would have to be my favoutie as far a plain wrappers go - whether baking pure vanilla cupcake - red velvet or mud cupcakes.
http://www.champagnecakes.com.au/flowers1.html..
Best thing is - they do not fade after baking and stay as firm and straight as pre baking.
Made in the UK - and by far the best i have ever used.

Bluehue




Bluehue does your packet of cases have a brand name on them at all, the ones that are made in the UK? I currently buy some great ones from Cakey Makey in the UK, but I am looking for something as good, but cheaper if possible.

HarrietBakes Posted 13 Aug 2010 , 10:07am
post #49 of 58

Oh gosh, this is such a stress-maker for me!!

I am not sure about the humidity theory, I think for me it is to do with the moisture in the cake itself OR the cases.

I made some red velvet cakes (v moist) last weekend, and they all peeled. That was a practice run for a wedding tomorrow, so I just made the wedding batch and they are cooling as I write...... so far, so good! I cooked a little longer as I read about the 'undercooked' theory. I made a couple smaller cupcakes just so I could make sure they were ok before going to the wedding, and they are peeling. So maybe it's something to do with cooking times and the size of the cake? But surely my small cupcakes would be MORE cooked than their non-peeling, larger counterparts? I am so confused.

I also did a vanilla cake batch and just one - ONE!!!! - of them is peeling!!! Only on one side of the cake, too. It's such a mystery!

I take my cupcakes out of the pan and onto the cooling rack pretty much immediately once they're out of the oven (clean toothpick!).

I am in England where it is extraordinary for it to be humid. It's always fresh and never humid. So I don't know about that.

OH MY GOSH I just checked and all of my red velvets are peeling! NOOO! This is going to look AWFUL for the wedding tomorrow! Maybe I will double up the cases to hopefully make it look better?

Using some stiff, patterned cases. They look like they should hold up nicely but obviously not.

ARGH this is irritating me. I need answers! We need to hire a professional scientific team.

swakeleyscakes Posted 13 Aug 2010 , 10:42am
post #50 of 58

Another UK baker here. Cheapest and best liners I have found are from ASDA (they sell a mix pack of brown and white muffin size). I have made all types of cupcake in them from the regular vanilla to the super moist carrot cake. The only time I have had a problem is where I try and cook a low fat recipe that has a lot of egg white folded in or using cocoa powder. Basically anything drying to the mix.

Bluehue Posted 13 Aug 2010 , 11:36am
post #51 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayti

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluehue

These would have to be my favoutie as far a plain wrappers go - whether baking pure vanilla cupcake - red velvet or mud cupcakes.
http://www.champagnecakes.com.au/flowers1.html..
Best thing is - they do not fade after baking and stay as firm and straight as pre baking.
Made in the UK - and by far the best i have ever used.

Bluehue



Bluehue does your packet of cases have a brand name on them at all, the ones that are made in the UK? I currently buy some great ones from Cakey Makey in the UK, but I am looking for something as good, but cheaper if possible.




Dayti - i will find out for you and get back with a name.
I buy them in clear tubes - no name on them icon_confused.gificon_rolleyes.gif
Bluehue

Dayti Posted 13 Aug 2010 , 4:59pm
post #52 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluehue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayti

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluehue

These would have to be my favoutie as far a plain wrappers go - whether baking pure vanilla cupcake - red velvet or mud cupcakes.
http://www.champagnecakes.com.au/flowers1.html..
Best thing is - they do not fade after baking and stay as firm and straight as pre baking.
Made in the UK - and by far the best i have ever used.

Bluehue



Bluehue does your packet of cases have a brand name on them at all, the ones that are made in the UK? I currently buy some great ones from Cakey Makey in the UK, but I am looking for something as good, but cheaper if possible.



Dayti - i will find out for you and get back with a name.
I buy them in clear tubes - no name on them icon_confused.gificon_rolleyes.gif
Bluehue




Hmm, mine also come in clear tubes, with no name on icon_rolleyes.gif You can get them in packs of 50 or 500. The 500's just come wrapped in a long clear plastic bag with a white tape tie at the top. Maybe they are the same ones.

Bluehue Posted 14 Aug 2010 , 1:28am
post #53 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayti

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluehue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayti

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluehue

These would have to be my favoutie as far a plain wrappers go - whether baking pure vanilla cupcake - red velvet or mud cupcakes.
http://www.champagnecakes.com.au/flowers1.html..
Best thing is - they do not fade after baking and stay as firm and straight as pre baking.
Made in the UK - and by far the best i have ever used.

Bluehue



Bluehue does your packet of cases have a brand name on them at all, the ones that are made in the UK? I currently buy some great ones from Cakey Makey in the UK, but I am looking for something as good, but cheaper if possible.



Dayti - i will find out for you and get back with a name.
I buy them in clear tubes - no name on them icon_confused.gificon_rolleyes.gif
Bluehue



Hmm, mine also come in clear tubes, with no name on icon_rolleyes.gif You can get them in packs of 50 or 500. The 500's just come wrapped in a long clear plastic bag with a white tape tie at the top. Maybe they are the same ones.







Yes, thats how mine come - thumbs_up.gif
Seeing my supplier today - so will ask and let you know later today
Bluehue. icon_smile.gif

LindaF144a Posted 14 Aug 2010 , 2:04am
post #54 of 58

Now you got me to wondering.....I did go from putting 45 grams to 60 grams (a little above 2/3 full in the baking cup) and I don't get peeling liners. Then again I now bake for a minimum of 21 minutes.

When you bake a cake and it is done, it does shrink back from the sides. So when you bake a cupcake and it is done it could shrink back from the side of the "pan", which is the cupcake cup. If you don't have enough batter in the cup, it might shrink enough from the. Liner and be unable to continue to cling to the cupcake, especially if it is under baked. As under baked cupcakes will shrink in size and sink on top after they come out of the oven. I did have the mistake of making under baked cupcakes last week, but none of them peeled away from the liner. They were filled with 60 grams of batter versus the 45 grams I used to do.

Now this would be different if you filled the cup so that the batter did not rise over the top. Then this theory would not work. I have never had a cupcake liner peel away on a cupcake that doesn't rise up above the top of the edge of the liner. So it could be something to do with that too.

Anybody else?

Bluehue Posted 14 Aug 2010 , 1:19pm
post #55 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluehue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayti

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluehue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayti

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluehue

These would have to be my favoutie as far a plain wrappers go - whether baking pure vanilla cupcake - red velvet or mud cupcakes.
http://www.champagnecakes.com.au/flowers1.html..
Best thing is - they do not fade after baking and stay as firm and straight as pre baking.
Made in the UK - and by far the best i have ever used.

Bluehue



Bluehue does your packet of cases have a brand name on them at all, the ones that are made in the UK? I currently buy some great ones from Cakey Makey in the UK, but I am looking for something as good, but cheaper if possible.



Dayti - i will find out for you and get back with a name.
I buy them in clear tubes - no name on them icon_confused.gificon_rolleyes.gif
Bluehue



Hmm, mine also come in clear tubes, with no name on icon_rolleyes.gif You can get them in packs of 50 or 500. The 500's just come wrapped in a long clear plastic bag with a white tape tie at the top. Maybe they are the same ones.






Yes, thats how mine come - thumbs_up.gif
Seeing my supplier today - so will ask and let you know later today
Bluehue. icon_smile.gif







OK - Continuing on - lollll
Well knock me over with a feather - after all these years of using the brand of cases i do - and thinking they were made in the UK - they are made here who knew ..................not me - icon_surprised.gificon_surprised.gificon_surprised.gif
So many rave about them - whether your recipe has alot of fat/oil or is more like a vanilla sponge - they hang on tight to your cooked cupcake and are the best coloured cases ever.
Here is the link to the company - CONFETA - http://www.confeta.com.au

You can email them and ask for a supplier closest to you - if you have any problems - just PM me - thumbs_up.gif

Bluehue. icon_smile.gif

Dayti Posted 14 Aug 2010 , 9:21pm
post #56 of 58

Thankyou for the research Bluehue! icon_biggrin.gif
Maybe the ones I buy are Confeta, sounds like I am the one who should be doing the digging. They are definitely greaseproof and I agree they hold their shape. I only tried the white ones, not the coloured ones they also sell at Cakey Makey, but they are all on the same page.


(To everyone else, sorry for hijacking the thread icon_redface.gif )

sugarspice Posted 16 Aug 2010 , 1:51am
post #57 of 58

Hi!!
This is the reply I got for the Reynolds company...hope it helps!!

Thank you for your inquiry regarding Reynolds® Baking Cups.

Cupcakes made from batters with high fat content do sometimes separate from foil or foil lined baking cups as they sit, but with Reynolds Baking Cups, this is easily solved by filling the backing cup 3/4 full with batter. How can you be sure your Baking Cup is 3/4 full? Our Reynolds Baking Cups are 1 1/4-inch deep so the batter should be 1 inch deep or fill the Baking Cup to 1/4 inch from the top.

Please do not hesitate to contact us in the future if you have any other questions concerning Reynolds consumer products.

Jim, Reynolds Consumer Response
ContactUs@reynoldskitchens.com
Ref # 1018567

LindaF144a Posted 4 Sep 2010 , 10:38pm
post #58 of 58

I'm bringing this up again because I had some liners peel away, but that was after three days of storage in an air tight container. It does help the cupcakes to stay moist and even after three days everybody still wants them.

But the ones that are peeling are the ones that I'm sure I underbaked a bit and should have kept in the oven one minute longer. When am I going to learn.....

Anyway, underbaking, for me, is still the culprit.

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