buttercreamkisses Posted 17 May 2010 , 2:01am
post #1 of

I'm looking to make Odessa's Crusting Buttercream (which I've made many times before with great results).

The original recipe calls for
1 1/2 c. shortening
1 c. butter

will is still work (consistancy, smoothness, taste and crusting) if I fliped the amounts and did 1 1/2 c. butter and just 1 c. shortening?

I'm not sure of the "science" behind shortening and butter.

Any thoughts? icon_smile.gif

23 replies
prterrell Posted 17 May 2010 , 2:09am
post #2 of

Yes, it will still crust as long as the ratio of fat to sugar remains the same.

mamawrobin Posted 17 May 2010 , 2:13am
post #3 of

Yes.

LindaF144a Posted 17 May 2010 , 2:16am
post #4 of

If it's true that you need to keep the fat to sugar ratio the same then remember that butter is 80% fat and 15% liquid. This may mean that you need to add a bit more butter than you think to compensate for the extra liquid. I'm not too sure how much without doing the math which I don't feel like doing right now. icon_razz.gif Hopefully you won't mind doing your own.

chellescountrycakes Posted 17 May 2010 , 2:27am
post #5 of

what should the fat to sugar ratio be?? I cant seem to make ANY BC's crust lately.. had to do the hot knife thing tonight and its a PITA.

I havent gotten one to crust and not stick to the paper in months.. icon_sad.gif

LindaF144a Posted 17 May 2010 , 4:13am
post #6 of

Now that I posted my reply, I'm wondering if the fat content/liquid content of the butter matters if you are not cooking it.

Hopefully someone else will chime in with an opinion.

And I don't think a BC with a higher butter content will crust, but I'm not an expert in that either. I know the only way I get my 100% butter buttercream to crust is to refrigerate it for a while.

mamawrobin Posted 17 May 2010 , 4:26am
post #7 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by chellebyerly

what should the fat to sugar ratio be?? I cant seem to make ANY BC's crust lately.. had to do the hot knife thing tonight and its a PITA.

I havent gotten one to crust and not stick to the paper in months.. icon_sad.gif




What is your fat to sugar ratio? I use 1 1/3 cups of shortening to 2 pounds of powdered sugar. I've seen several say that your fat/sugar ratio shoud be 1:1. I don't agree. If your buttercream isn't crustiing add less fat than sugar. I'd say 1 cup to 1 1/4 pounds of sugar.

indydebi Posted 17 May 2010 , 6:10am
post #8 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamawrobin

I use 1 1/3 cups of shortening to 2 pounds of powdered sugar. I've seen several say that your fat/sugar ratio shoud be 1:1. I don't agree.



Same here. On both counts. thumbs_up.gif Whenever I see threads regarding crusting problems, 9 times out of 10, the recipe they are using is a 1:1.

TexasSugar Posted 17 May 2010 , 2:55pm
post #9 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamawrobin

What is your fat to sugar ratio? I use 1 1/3 cups of shortening to 2 pounds of powdered sugar. I've seen several say that your fat/sugar ratio shoud be 1:1. I don't agree. If your buttercream isn't crustiing add less fat than sugar. I'd say 1 cup to 1 1/4 pounds of sugar.




I am one that will tell you that 1 to 1 is a good place to start. It doesn't mean that this is the only way the icing will crust, but when I am looking at recipes I do use it as a guide.

I know, that for me, if a recipe has 1 cup fat to 1lbs sugar it will crust. I also know if it has 2 cups fat to 1lb sugar chances are it will be slow to crust, if it happens. And if it is less fat to the 1lb sugar it will crust faster.

I think your local weather does play a factor in to it. The past few months I've been tempted to tell my students to add more fat than the 1 cup to 1lbs when we do rose because there is something in the classroom at the store that just sucks the moisture out of the icing and causes it to get dry.

I also personally think it depends on if you are using all Crisco vs butter or a combo of butter and crisco. The butter does have more liquid in it it that may cause the crusting time to be a little slower.

q2wheels Posted 17 May 2010 , 3:15pm

I just did this experiment!!!!

I dislike butter flavoring but wanted more of a butter flavor, so I decided to try (for my daughter's welcome home for the summer cake) adding an extra stick of butter (1/2 c) to my usual recipe of 1 c butter/1 c sweetex. Like you, was worried about crusting.

So it was 1.5 cups butter, 1 c sweetex and 2 lbs PS, 3 tsp clear vanilla and really hot water (to consistency). It tasted to die for and crusted well. This is my new and improved buttercream!!!

HTH,

Toni Ann


Quote:
Originally Posted by buttercreamkisses

I'm looking to make Odessa's Crusting Buttercream (which I've made many times before with great results).

The original recipe calls for
1 1/2 c. shortening
1 c. butter

will is still work (consistancy, smoothness, taste and crusting) if I fliped the amounts and did 1 1/2 c. butter and just 1 c. shortening?

I'm not sure of the "science" behind shortening and butter.

Any thoughts? icon_smile.gif


chellescountrycakes Posted 17 May 2010 , 5:07pm

I usually do the 1 1/3 cup crisco, 1 stick butter and 1 bag of PS.. plus flavor. Mine just doesnt crust up... wonder if I should skip the butter or cut it down...

TexasSugar Posted 17 May 2010 , 6:53pm

One bag being a 2lb bag?

I use 2 cups of crisco to 2lb bag with out any crusting probems. Your recipe is just a little less fat than mine, so that shouldn't be the problem.

Are you using butter butter?

mamawrobin Posted 17 May 2010 , 8:14pm

[quote="chellebyerly"]I usually do the 1 1/3 cup crisco, 1 stick butter and 1 bag of PS.. plus flavor. Mine just doesnt crust up... wonder if I should skip the butter or cut it down...[/quote

The receipe I use has 1 1/3 of shortening to 2 pounds of powdered sugar. You're using that plus a stick of butter. I'd cut the shortening by 1/2 cup and add the butter and see if your results aren't better.

Texas uses the 1:1 ratio for sugar/shortening but that doesn't work for me. My buttercream will not crust using 1:1 ratio.

Like Indy said when you see threads with crusting problems 9 times out of 10 the receipe being used is 1:1.

prterrell Posted 17 May 2010 , 9:22pm

In order for the frosting to crust, there needs to be a higher proportion of sugar to the fat/liquid. The liquid in the butter won't throw that off.

TexasSugar Posted 17 May 2010 , 9:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamawrobin


Like Indy said when you see threads with crusting problems 9 times out of 10 the receipe being used is 1:1.




Of those, how many of them are using butter in place of crisco?

chellescountrycakes Posted 18 May 2010 , 1:13am

Thanks mamawrobin, Your pretty close to me, I'm in East Texas, humidity is AWFUL here. should I just cut the butter alltogether? I dont care. I use flavoring anyway. LOL and it would save me from forgetting to let it sit out and get soft.... LOL I always forget..

okay, now pterrel, I tried that yesterday. Because I had read it on here. I put in my normal ingrediants, then added MORE sugar. and honest to God, I couldnt get it to crust for love or money... I had to use the hot spatula thing, and HATE doing that. it changes my color... and it wouldnt ever get real smooth, I need more practice with it I guess.

I wonder if it is region based... like for humid climates you use one and for arid/dry you use another. Here its HOT and HUMID.

mamawrobin Posted 18 May 2010 , 1:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasSugar

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamawrobin


Like Indy said when you see threads with crusting problems 9 times out of 10 the receipe being used is 1:1.



Of those, how many of them are using butter in place of crisco?




You know Texas that's kind of what I was wondering. I'm curious if it's not that butter has more liquid than shortening and that isn't what's up. Maybe 1:1 works great if using all shortening but not so if butter is in the mix.

TexasSugar Posted 18 May 2010 , 1:25pm

Chellebyerly, I'm in Tyler. icon_smile.gif

I use the all crisco because here, especially in our summers, butter in the icing will get softer faster than crisco since it has a lower melting point. It just makes it harder for me to work with.

If the butter does produce a softer or maybe even thinner (does have more liquid content than crisco) icing then that could be causing some of the crusting issues.

If you like your recipe I'd cut back on the fat in it some. Or you can try other recipes like Indy's or SugarShacks they are always well talked about on here.

prterrell Posted 18 May 2010 , 9:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chellebyerly

Thanks mamawrobin, Your pretty close to me, I'm in East Texas, humidity is AWFUL here. should I just cut the butter alltogether? I dont care. I use flavoring anyway. LOL and it would save me from forgetting to let it sit out and get soft.... LOL I always forget..

okay, now pterrel, I tried that yesterday. Because I had read it on here. I put in my normal ingrediants, then added MORE sugar. and honest to God, I couldnt get it to crust for love or money... I had to use the hot spatula thing, and HATE doing that. it changes my color... and it wouldnt ever get real smooth, I need more practice with it I guess.

I wonder if it is region based... like for humid climates you use one and for arid/dry you use another. Here its HOT and HUMID.




Hot and Humid here in GA, too. Back when I first started doing cakes and before I switched to the European style buttercreams only, I used all-butter or butter and shortening and it would always crust, *if* it had enough sugar in it...

LindaF144a Posted 18 May 2010 , 11:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by prterrell

I switched to the European style buttercreams.....




Can you elaborate on this? What are European style buttercreams?

mamawrobin Posted 18 May 2010 , 11:49pm

Linda, Swiss Meringue Buttercream, Italian Meringue Buttercrea to name a couple.

Prterrell I agree about the buttercream crusting IF enough sugar is added. What I should have said is either cut the amount of fat or ADD more sugar. Don't know why I didn't think of that.

LindaF144a Posted 19 May 2010 , 12:00am

mamawrobin -
Thanks. I didn't know they were considered European. But I guess the names "Swiss"and "Italian" should have clued me on this.

I also read prterrell's, erroneously, to mean the European buttercreams crusted.

LuvLyrics Posted 19 May 2010 , 12:12am

I live in FL, during the summer I use 1/2 butter 1/2 shortening.. by weight.

prterrell Posted 19 May 2010 , 1:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindaF144

Quote:
Originally Posted by prterrell

I switched to the European style buttercreams.....



Can you elaborate on this? What are European style buttercreams?




The original buttercreams. The kind of buttercreams used in traditional European cakes (those that don't use whipped cream or rolled icings).

Italian Meringue Buttercream (IMBC) and Swiss Meringue Buttercream (SMBC) are very similar, made from basically the same ingredients and produce basically the same frosting, but are made using two different processes. IMBC is made by whipping a hot sugar syrup into egg whites, then whipping in unsalted butter and extract. SMBC is made by cooking the egg whites and sugar over a bain marie and then whipping and then adding in the unsalted butter and extract.

French Buttercream (FBC) is made using the same process as IMBC, but is made with whole eggs or just yolks.

German Buttercream (GBC) is made by whipping unsalted butter into pastry cream.

None of these crust. They are all much lighter and creamier and much richer than powdered sugar based frosting.

FBC and GBC are suitable for filling and frosting, but cannot be used for all decorative applications. IMBC and SMBC can be used to fill and frost and for all decorative applications that PS frosting can, with the added benefit that the consistency of the frosting does not need to be altered as does PS frosting.

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