Ganche Under Fondant

Decorating By annie53 Updated 5 May 2010 , 10:34am by costumeczar

annie53 Posted 3 May 2010 , 2:43pm
post #1 of 27

When covering a cake with Ganache and then fondant must it be refrigerated?

26 replies
DALIG Posted 3 May 2010 , 2:45pm
post #2 of 27

i am not sure that it must but i do. sorry couldnt help

mamawrobin Posted 3 May 2010 , 3:55pm
post #3 of 27

Nope thumbs_up.gif .

kimmisue2009 Posted 3 May 2010 , 4:11pm
post #4 of 27

If you want proof of at least one time where it needed to be refrigerated, go into my pics and look at my baby feet cake. When I first did it, I was so terribly excited because the ganache was so super-glassy smooth and it made the fondant look fantastic (at least by my beginnner standards). However, as it sat (which was only overnight) it was like the ganache just relaxed or something. I do live in DEEP East Texas where the humidity has a personality, so that might have had something to do with it. Hope this helps.

mamawrobin Posted 3 May 2010 , 4:22pm
post #5 of 27

I keep my house cold even in the summer. That may be why I've never had any problems. But the ganache that I use under my fondnat sets up hard. If you don't use that type under fondant it's not going to stay firm under the weight of fondant anyway. My ganache holds it's shape when left out perfectly fine. I also live in the south (Arkansas) where it's hot and humid and I've honestly never had a problem with mine not being refrigerated.

I value everything that Leah_S post on these fourms and since I read her post saying that there isn't a need to refrigerate cakes unless they have a perishable filling....I DON'T.

Bluehue Posted 3 May 2010 , 4:27pm
post #6 of 27

No - once your cake is ganached correctly - and every inch of cake is covered - allow it to sit/setup for a few hours -
There is no need to refridgerate a ganched cake -
Depending on the weather - it shouldn't take any longer than a couple of hours for your cake to be ready for the fondant.

Ganche doesn't like to be placed in the fridge -
If anything - place unused ganache in your freezer for up to a Month - should you have any left over.

Here in Australia - we do not place Fondant covered cake in the fridge.
Many on this site in other countries do - but it serves no purpose.

Our weather conditions are no different to anywhere else - extreme heat and cold.

The most important thing is - make sure that around the bottom of the cake is correctly sealed with the ganache and fondant - and your cake will be fine

Bluehue.

kimmisue2009 Posted 3 May 2010 , 4:28pm
post #7 of 27

I probably did just use the wrong kind of ganache. It's the one and only time I have used it to ice; from that point on, I just filled with it or used it without fondant because I love the taste - rich, but not so sweet. But, like I said, that is just one person's one time experience. Just thought I could maybe save someone the agony of feeling like they ruined someone's event, ya know?

mamawrobin Posted 3 May 2010 , 4:34pm
post #8 of 27

Bluehue..thank you so much for posting your very valued opinion. There is another thread on here asking if they should refrigerate fonandt covered cakes. I of course said "no" and until I read all of the responses I didn't realize how many think that you have to refrigerate cakes.

Personally I don't like refrigerating cakes because I just don't icon_lol.gif I would imagine that your weather is just about the same as my Arkansas weather. Extreme cold/extreme heat. Anyway, I feel a little less beaten up on the subject when someone like you comes along and says "NO" to the refrigeration monster thumbs_up.gif

confectionsofahousewife Posted 3 May 2010 , 4:34pm
post #9 of 27

I have yet to try ganache but I do want to. It seems to lend a better surface for fondant.

mamawrobin, what recipe do you use that sets up hard?

bluehue, love your quote from Christian Louboutin! Makes me smile every time. Someday I will own some of those shoes...

mamawrobin Posted 3 May 2010 , 4:37pm
post #10 of 27

I'll pm you the receipe thumbs_up.gif

margi24 Posted 3 May 2010 , 5:01pm
post #11 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamawrobin

I'll pm you the receipe thumbs_up.gif


oo can you send it to me too, iv had 2 failed attempts so far icon_sad.gif thanks

Sassy74 Posted 3 May 2010 , 5:11pm
post #12 of 27

I just recently did my first topsy using ganache under fondant. I didn't refrig because I simply don't have the room. Then again, I've never put a fondant covered cake in the refrig. My ganache set up firm, but was a little softer than I would have liked. But, it did fine...no slouching or oozing.

I think I need to use a higher ratio of choc chips/cream. I'm about to do another one, and I'm going with 48 oz of choc to 20 of cream. Last time I used 44 oz of choc chips to 20 oz cream, and as I said, it still wasn't firm all the way through after a little more than 24 hours.

I also live in the deeeep South (SE Louisiana), where you can slice through the humidity lol. Not sure how much that's affecting how my ganache sets up...

Bluehue Posted 3 May 2010 , 5:28pm
post #13 of 27

confectionsofahousewife
The most used ganache recipe is this one - and unless i am asked for a *flavoured* one - i use this.

300ml Cream
600gm Coverture Chocolate.

Boil Cream - take off heat.
Combne with chocolate and mix until smooth
Let cool completely..sitting on bench....actually best to use the following day.
If ganache is too hard to apply to cake - pop in microwave for a few seconds - then stir until spreadable consistancey is reached.

Due to cream being bought to the boil - and its structure being changed - ganache does not need to be refridgerated - even after being applied to a cake.
I only place in freezer what is unused.

Never would i place a ganache filled/covered and fondant/medium covered cake in the fridge.
It can actually be more detremental to the cake - than if left on a kitchen bench.

RE: my signiture line - icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif
Stilletos weren't invented for comfort - but to makes ones legs look stunning and give one an air of style and grace. icon_wink.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif

Perish the thought of someone telling me .................
*they look comfortable* tapedshut.gificon_cry.gif -
its enough for me to want to slap them - lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.



mamawrobin
We here in Australia have been ganaching our cakes for years - and altho it seems to be a new thing to have taken off in the States - many truely do not understand the logistics behind it.

It serves no purpose to refridgerate a ganached cake - even torted and then covered with ganache
Let alone place a fondant cake in the fridge - icon_confused.gifthumbsdown.giftapedshut.gif
Why anyone would want to keep the cake moist on the outside is beyond me. icon_confused.gif

If anything we want our cakes to be set on the outside so as to keep their shape/design and sharp edged appearance -
Added moisture from a fridge isn't going to achieve that.

I too have read on here where peole say -after you take your cake from the fridge and if there is condensation on the outside - just allow that to evaporate away -

Why do that to a cake ?
Plus condensation doesn't only effect the outside of a cake.

Some just need to have a little faith - and once they have used ganache - covered their cakes correctly and completely with it - they will say -
why didn't i try this earlier.....*slap forehead*

Its like wearing stilletos - its sooooooooo easy - icon_wink.gificon_lol.gif


kimmisue2009
Did you bring your cream to an actual boil - and then remove it from the stove/heat?
Might you have used a chocolate that wasn't coverture? That can make a lot of difference...
Do make it again to cover your cake and then apply your fondant - sometimes it just takes more than once to get it right. icon_smile.gificon_smile.gif


Compounded chocolate is made with vegetable fat instead of cocoa butter, and since chocolate derives a lot of its flavour from the cocoa butter component, compounded chocolate does not have the same rich flavour.

The most expensive ingredient in chocolate is cocoa butter, and the use of vegetable fat substitute means that compounded chocolate is also much cheaper to produce.

Chocolate should be stored in a cool place at room temperature away from strong light..... don't refrigerate couverture chocolate,




Bluehue.

kimmisue2009 Posted 3 May 2010 , 5:49pm
post #14 of 27

Thank you bluehue for your response. I did not use coverture chocolate. I decided (see any problems there?) that it was not necessary. That was before I had learned to pull from the knowledge and experience on this site. I did not know if that could make that much of a difference, but I am kinda glad to hear that it can, and will try again. So many people say buttercream is too sweet. To them, I say "it's icing. duh." (in my head) But, when I've used ganache, I have never had anyone complain about the sweetness or - horror of horrors - scrape the icing off and just eat the cake. Anyway, it's folks just like you that keep me coming back here. Thanks again!

Bluehue Posted 3 May 2010 , 6:15pm
post #15 of 27

kimmisue2009
Your very welcome - icon_smile.gif

Depending on the type of chocolate you use makes all the differennce to the consistancey of the final result.
If compound chocolate is used - it will tend to stay too soft and not *set* on your cake.
Then once fondant is laid over the cake - the compound ganache can give way....so to speak - thus causing your fondant to wrinkle and sag.

Also - after applying your ganache to the outside of the cake - take a scraper, and slowly work your way around the cake - taking of any excess - thus giving you an even coating....this also is important to how well your fondant will sit.
This is the type i use - http://www.rainbowsugarcraft.co.uk/shop/Scraper.htm
I find the metal ones more sturdy - altho plastic ones are good - just what you get used to.
Also used and great for smoothing over fondant.

Have to agree - never had anyone complain about the texture or taste of ganache. thumbs_up.gif


Bluehue

mamawrobin Posted 3 May 2010 , 6:39pm
post #16 of 27

Blue...I have to say I love your reference to stilletos. I wear them most of the time. I'm 5'2" so it gives me some height thumbs_up.gif I rarely wear a pair of heels that aren't at least 4 inches. icon_lol.gif

costumeczar Posted 3 May 2010 , 6:43pm
post #17 of 27

If you have perishable fillings like fruit curds you do need to refrigerate it, though.

mamaof3cutiez Posted 3 May 2010 , 7:51pm
post #18 of 27

mamawrobin-
would you please PM me your recipe as well? I have tried several recipes so far and haven't had it harden up as I'd like. Thank you! icon_biggrin.gif

margi24 Posted 3 May 2010 , 8:05pm
post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluehue

confectionsofahousewife
The most used ganache recipe is this one - and unless i am asked for a *flavoured* one - i use this.

300ml Cream
600gm Coverture Chocolate.

Boil Cream - take off heat.
Combne with chocolate and mix until smooth
Let cool completely..sitting on bench....actually best to use the following day.
If ganache is too hard to apply to cake - pop in microwave for a few seconds - then stir until spreadable consistancey is reached.

Due to cream being bought to the boil - and its structure being changed - ganache does not need to be refridgerated - even after being applied to a cake.
I only place in freezer what is unused.

Never would i place a ganache filled/covered and fondant/medium covered cake in the fridge.
It can actually be more detremental to the cake - than if left on a kitchen bench.

RE: my signiture line - icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif
Stilletos weren't invented for comfort - but to makes ones legs look stunning and give one an air of style and grace. icon_wink.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif

Perish the thought of someone telling me .................
*they look comfortable* tapedshut.gificon_cry.gif -
its enough for me to want to slap them - lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.



mamawrobin
We here in Australia have been ganaching our cakes for years - and altho it seems to be a new thing to have taken off in the States - many truely do not understand the logistics behind it.

It serves no purpose to refridgerate a ganached cake - even torted and then covered with ganache
Let alone place a fondant cake in the fridge - icon_confused.gifthumbsdown.giftapedshut.gif
Why anyone would want to keep the cake moist on the outside is beyond me. icon_confused.gif

If anything we want our cakes to be set on the outside so as to keep their shape/design and sharp edged appearance -
Added moisture from a fridge isn't going to achieve that.

I too have read on here where peole say -after you take your cake from the fridge and if there is condensation on the outside - just allow that to evaporate away -

Why do that to a cake ?
Plus condensation doesn't only effect the outside of a cake.

Some just need to have a little faith - and once they have used ganache - covered their cakes correctly and completely with it - they will say -
why didn't i try this earlier.....*slap forehead*

Its like wearing stilletos - its sooooooooo easy - icon_wink.gificon_lol.gif


kimmisue2009
Did you bring your cream to an actual boil - and then remove it from the stove/heat?
Might you have used a chocolate that wasn't coverture? That can make a lot of difference...
Do make it again to cover your cake and then apply your fondant - sometimes it just takes more than once to get it right. icon_smile.gificon_smile.gif


Compounded chocolate is made with vegetable fat instead of cocoa butter, and since chocolate derives a lot of its flavour from the cocoa butter component, compounded chocolate does not have the same rich flavour.

The most expensive ingredient in chocolate is cocoa butter, and the use of vegetable fat substitute means that compounded chocolate is also much cheaper to produce.

Chocolate should be stored in a cool place at room temperature away from strong light..... don't refrigerate couverture chocolate,




Bluehue.



ooo you seem to know your ganache. Can you tell me what covorture is. Is it 70% cocoa or less? Im from the uk so not heard of it. Also when i put the boiled cream into the bowl of chocolate it melts part but not all of it as it cools t quk. Any suggestions on how i could fix this?
Thanks, margi

annie53 Posted 3 May 2010 , 11:38pm
post #20 of 27

Thanks everyone I'm new at this and as the ganache has cream in it I wasn't sure...anyone have a fool proof reicipe they might share? Or give the eq. of 300ml and 600 gm in US that Bluehue was kind enough to post. I just started in January so I'm a rookie!!! Thanks again!

Bluehue Posted 4 May 2010 , 2:41am
post #21 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

If you have perishable fillings like fruit curds you do need to refrigerate it, though.




The OP is asking about Ganache - not perishable fillings.... icon_confused.gif


Bluehue.

costumeczar Posted 4 May 2010 , 10:42am
post #22 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluehue

Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

If you have perishable fillings like fruit curds you do need to refrigerate it, though.



The OP is asking about Ganache - not perishable fillings.... icon_confused.gif


Bluehue.




Right, and if you have ganached a cake that has perishable filling IN IT, then you'd have to refrigerate. I assume the ganache isn't the only thing in the cake, unless you're doing no fillings in it. You might use a different type of cake in Australia than in the U.S., I don't know, but generally in the U.S. there are at least two layers of cake with a layer of filling between them. That filling might be cream, curds or other more "fragile" fillings that would require refrigeration regardless of how the cake is covered.

MotheroftheGroom Posted 4 May 2010 , 10:55am
post #23 of 27

MamaWrobin: Can you send me your recipe as well.
Per everyones advice, I am researching the best recipes to use. I will be starting my practice cakes soon and thought I might try this as a filling for one of the cakes.

Thanks so much

confectionsofahousewife Posted 4 May 2010 , 5:33pm
post #24 of 27

mamawrobin, thanks so much for your recipe! I can't wait to try it.

bluehue- i love stillettos too! unfortunately my feet don't anymore! also, what is coverture chocolate?? No clue icon_redface.gif

mamawrobin Posted 4 May 2010 , 8:21pm
post #25 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by confectionsofahousewife

mamawrobin, thanks so much for your recipe! I can't wait to try it.

bluehue- i love stillettos too! unfortunately my feet don't anymore! also, what is coverture chocolate?? No clue icon_redface.gif




Coverture chocolate is a high quailty chocolate. I think the cocoa butter percentage has to be like 32-39%. There are probably other things that define it as "coverture" but I'm not sure what they are. icon_smile.gif

BTW you're welcome thumbs_up.gif

Bluehue Posted 5 May 2010 , 3:01am
post #26 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluehue

Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

If you have perishable fillings like fruit curds you do need to refrigerate it, though.



The OP is asking about Ganache - not perishable fillings.... icon_confused.gif


Bluehue.



Right, and if you have ganached a cake that has perishable filling IN IT, then you'd have to refrigerate. I assume the ganache isn't the only thing in the cake, unless you're doing no fillings in it. You might use a different type of cake in Australia than in the U.S., I don't know, but generally in the U.S. there are at least two layers of cake with a layer of filling between them. That filling might be cream, curds or other more "fragile" fillings that would require refrigeration regardless of how the cake is covered.






costumeczar
- i was referring to say a 3inch high cake - torted twice - both layers filled with Ganache - then Ganached all over once the cake is stacked.
Then covered in Fondant/medium....sorry, i was not referring to a cake that had other fillings in it.




confectionsofahousewife
When looking for Coverture Chocolate - it will have it written on the packet......

Couverture Chocolate is a very high quality chocolate that contains extra cocoa butter (32-39%). The higher percentage of cocoa butter, combined with the processing, gives the chocolate more sheen, firmer "snap" when broken, and a creamy mellow flavor.

The total "percentage" cited on many brands of chocolate is made up of some combination of cocoa butter to cocoa solids (cacao). In order to be properly labeled as "couverture", the percentage of cocoa butter must be between 32-39%, and the total of the percentage of the combined cocoa butter plus cocoa solids must be at least 54%. Sugar makes up the inverse percentage, and up to 1% may be made up of vanilla, and sometimes soy lecithin.

Couverture is used by professionals for dipping, coating, molding and garnishing.

The term "couverture chocolate" should not be confused with "confectionery chocolate", "compound chocolate" or "summer coating": These products have a lower percentage of solids (cacao), and they may also contain vegetable oil, hydrogenated fats ("trans fats"), coconut and/or palm oil, and sometimes artificial chocolate flavoring.



Bluehue.

costumeczar Posted 5 May 2010 , 10:34am
post #27 of 27

Well, that makes sense as to why you were so insistent that a cake should never be refrigerated, but the cakes in the US and other countires aren't necessarily baked that way. Here, at least (I can't speak for what's common in other places), most wedding cakes are at least 4" tall, have two 2" layers that are either torted or not, and rarely use ganache as the a filling. The only time that people ask me for a ganache filling is when I whip it and offer a truffle filling, and then it's usually the first time they've had it. It just isn't that commonly used here.

So for the OP, you can refrigerate ganached and fondanted cakes depending on if you need to or not, it won't hurt the fondant. I refrigerate mine because of the heat and humidity here, as well as the health department telling me that I have to!

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